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Tory Leadership Race

By ‘change’ you mean a complete change of our country? Yes, OUR country. Turning it into a Muslim hell hole? Maybe that’s what Labour mean by ‘voting for change’. Not much actual change, just more of the change to the country. Thanks for that.

Britain has over 750,000 illegal migrants. More than any other country, including Germany. And in the news the UK have let in 250,000 migrants without a criminal record check. If that is what you call ‘By far most of our immigration is managed’ then we may as well leave and let them have the sh1t hole it will become when you admit to immigration being unmanaged or out of control.

I’m not talking about people in universities and jobs like your daughter and husband. That is again you in your little bubble talking. I’m talking about sh1tty degrees at universities in east London or Hull. What’s the point?
Are you serious?

How and when do you expect our country to become a “Muslim hell hole”?

The estimate of how many illegals there are here varies greatly but 750,000 is at the top end. Half of the estimated numbers are actually children born here. Even if you accept that as accurate it is only slightly more than 1% of the total. Our legal migration is almost that number every year, with many being students who leave again at the end of their courses. We are now living in a world where population flows are increasingly commonplace. Which I regard as healthy. Experiencing different cultures leads to greater understanding and acceptance.

There are around 4 million people who classify themselves as Muslim here. That’s about 7% of the total. Most want exactly what we all want. Which isn’t a hell hole.

Clamping down on extremism, from every source, is something I very strongly wish to see. I want to remove religious education from schools and religion from public life. New arrivals should be educated in what is expected from them and left in no doubt that transgressions will result in visas being revoked. I would make the path to citizenship much longer and for new arrivals to retain their original citizenship until then.

We can improve things but even if we don’t there won’t be a hell hole.
 
Are you serious?

How and when do you expect our country to become a “Muslim hell hole”?

The estimate of how many illegals there are here varies greatly but 750,000 is at the top end. Half of the estimated numbers are actually children born here. Even if you accept that as accurate it is only slightly more than 1% of the total. Our legal migration is almost that number every year, with many being students who leave again at the end of their courses. We are now living in a world where population flows are increasingly commonplace. Which I regard as healthy. Experiencing different cultures leads to greater understanding and acceptance.

There are around 4 million people who classify themselves as Muslim here. That’s about 7% of the total. Most want exactly what we all want. Which isn’t a hell hole.

Clamping down on extremism, from every source, is something I very strongly wish to see. I want to remove religious education from schools and religion from public life. New arrivals should be educated in what is expected from them and left in no doubt that transgressions will result in visas being revoked. I would make the path to citizenship much longer and for new arrivals to retain their original citizenship until then.

We can improve things but even if we don’t there won’t be a hell hole.
750,000 isn't at the top end.
A 2020 report for the Pew Research Center estimated that at the end of 2017, 800,000 to 1.2 million people were already living in the UK without a valid residence permit, which is about 1.2% to 1.8% of the whole population.
 
750,000 isn't at the top end.
A 2020 report for the Pew Research Center estimated that at the end of 2017, 800,000 to 1.2 million people were already living in the UK without a valid residence permit, which is about 1.2% to 1.8% of the whole population.
The Tory government under May said there were 3.5 million EU citizens living in the UK (legally) it turns out there was 5.5 million. Those are legal citizens who had no reason to hide and yet the government still could not get the numbers right.

Good knows how many are here illegally.
 
Are you serious?

How and when do you expect our country to become a “Muslim hell hole”?

The estimate of how many illegals there are here varies greatly but 750,000 is at the top end. Half of the estimated numbers are actually children born here. Even if you accept that as accurate it is only slightly more than 1% of the total. Our legal migration is almost that number every year, with many being students who leave again at the end of their courses. We are now living in a world where population flows are increasingly commonplace. Which I regard as healthy. Experiencing different cultures leads to greater understanding and acceptance.

There are around 4 million people who classify themselves as Muslim here. That’s about 7% of the total. Most want exactly what we all want. Which isn’t a hell hole.

Clamping down on extremism, from every source, is something I very strongly wish to see. I want to remove religious education from schools and religion from public life. New arrivals should be educated in what is expected from them and left in no doubt that transgressions will result in visas being revoked. I would make the path to citizenship much longer and for new arrivals to retain their original citizenship until then.

We can improve things but even if we don’t there won’t be a hell hole.
If you look at the streets of some areas it’s only a matter of time and even The Guardian forecasts we’ll be a minority in a couple to a few decades. You’re far away in a bubble.

People born here won’t be included in the 750,000+ illegals here and your half of 750,000 estimate is a joke. I don’t care how small a percentage it is, I don’t agree with it full stop. And 750,000 is 1% of the British population. So what as well. We’ve just been corrected that’s it’s likely to between 800,000 and 1.2 million.

‘Experiencing different cultures leads to greater understanding and acceptance’ was true when numbers were smaller. Integration wasn’t really a choice or option like it is now. Besides that, numbers are too high and European cultures, traditions and identities are being cast aside. Multiculturalism is proving to be a failure now. The rise of the far right and surprisingly with young people in Europe is happening as a result. Something you detest but are willing to cause.

Your utopian dream of secularism everywhere with Islamic immigration and majorities happening in more and more communities just proves how far your head is in the sands of Cornwall. There is also very little being done on ‘clamping down on extremism’ as you put it. Anjem Choudary. Remember him? It took authorities 20 years to convict him, and this extremist and hate preacher was regularly on bbc tv.
 
I have had the pleasure of meeting Jacob Rees-Mogg on more than one occasion.
He is a debonair gentleman of gargantuan erudition and the very quintessence of respectability.
Decency oozes from his every pore.
Ah - that explains everything.🙂
 
I have had the pleasure of meeting Jacob Rees-Mogg on more than one occasion.
He is a debonair gentleman of gargantuan erudition and the very quintessence of respectability.
Decency oozes from his every pore.
Why do I get the image of a black and white Cholmondley-Warner sketch by Harry Enfield of Willo and Jacob Rees-Mogg?
 
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If you look at the streets of some areas it’s only a matter of time and even The Guardian forecasts we’ll be a minority in a couple to a few decades. You’re far away in a bubble.

People born here won’t be included in the 750,000+ illegals here and your half of 750,000 estimate is a joke. I don’t care how small a percentage it is, I don’t agree with it full stop. And 750,000 is 1% of the British population. So what as well. We’ve just been corrected that’s it’s likely to between 800,000 and 1.2 million.

‘Experiencing different cultures leads to greater understanding and acceptance’ was true when numbers were smaller. Integration wasn’t really a choice or option like it is now. Besides that, numbers are too high and European cultures, traditions and identities are being cast aside. Multiculturalism is proving to be a failure now. The rise of the far right and surprisingly with young people in Europe is happening as a result. Something you detest but are willing to cause.

Your utopian dream of secularism everywhere with Islamic immigration and majorities happening in more and more communities just proves how far your head is in the sands of Cornwall. There is also very little being done on ‘clamping down on extremism’ as you put it. Anjem Choudary. Remember him? It took authorities 20 years to convict him, and this extremist and hate preacher was regularly on bbc tv.
He sees himself as 'other' to being white and thus genetically European....even though that's probably much more self delusion than he cares to admit. What matters is what is in their head rather than genetic realities.

The classical reason someone on the left who happens to be Jewish would want mass immigration is purely out of self interest and fear.....most of it ill placed and faulty but that doesn't matter, it's widespread within that community. As stated around 70 percent vote left aboard while back in Israel most vote right wing.

The reason left wing Jews (thankfully right wing Jews aren't this nuts) really want to mix it all up in Europe is because throughout the history of Judaism Jews have been expelled from countries many times (sometimes for subversion, sometimes to steal their stuff, sometimes religious hatred). This even happened in Britain before Cromwell reversed it. Even though this is centuries old in Europe (excepting 30s/40s Germany) it's held like a genetic memory.

So the thinking is that by always supporting mass immigration they refocus nationalism onto other groups and protect themselves by reducing the host group's power. The fact that they are introducing groups that view Jews negatively matters far less to them now that they have Israel or America as an escape option.

The fact that both these escape routes are under long term threat demographically and in Israel's case militarily again doesn't quite filter through enough to change their bahaviour. Probably because in their heads they probably think they will still end up ruling the new demographics and that it'll be safer for them somehow.

If I were someone like WE I would be trying with all my might to retain Europe as European and Christian as that's the more Jewish friendly demographic.....but because this is more emotional and deep seated than rational that just won't happen.

Someone like WE is fairly typical. Because Jews hold such power in the west (because its European and was Christian) they react to anything and everything....in reality too much and they were more effective in the past. For example, with WE, he's obsessed with Hitler and regularly brings him and the Nazis up as a fear mongering tool when anything more right wing than David Cameron is an option...Like the racism charge, over time it loses its power because people often see it being used inappropriately and with obvious agenda.

The fact that Churchill (not that I'm much of a Churchill fan nowadays) was far more right wing than anything around today doesn't matter as what's true doesn't factor in.....he only cares about winning, not what the truth is.

So we continually get the message that voting 'Trump' and 'Farage' is encouraging the return of a form of Hitler or neo Nazis.....what he's really saying is that he wants anything that would threaten his non European power base wiped out. He doesn't actually believe that anything like Hitler is coming back.....but any victory for anything even slightly nationalistic sets off emotional alarm bells in his type.
 
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He sees himself as 'other' to being white and thus genetically European....even though that's probably much more self delusion than he cares to admit. What matters is what is in their head rather than genetic realities.

The classical reason someone on the left who happens to be Jewish would want mass immigration is purely out of self interest and fear.....most of it ill placed and faulty but that doesn't matter, it's widespread within that community. As stated around 70 percent vote left aboard while back in Israel most vote right wing.

The reason left wing Jews (thankfully right wing Jews aren't this nuts) really want to mix it all up in Europe is because throughout the history of Judaism Jews have been expelled from countries (sometimes for subversion, sometimes to steal their stuff, sometimes religious hatred). This even happened in Britain before Cromwell reversed it. Even though this is centuries old in Europe it's held like a genetic memory.

So the thinking is that by always supporting mass immigration they refocus nationalism onto other groups and protect themselves by reducing the host group's power. The fact that they are introducing groups that view Jews negatively matters far less to them now that they have Israel or America as an escape option.

The fact that both these escape routes are under long term threat demographically and in Israel's case militarily again doesn't quite filter through enough to change their bahaviour. If I were someone like WE I would be trying with all my might to retain Europe as European and Christian as that's the more Jewish friendly demographic.....but because this is more emotional and deep seated than rational that just won't happen.

Someone like WE is fairly typical. Because Jews hold such power in the west they react to anything and everything....in reality too much and they were more effective in the past. For example, with WE, he's obsessed with Hitler and regularly brings him and the Nazis up as a fear mongering tool when anything more right wing than David Cameron is an option......The fact that Churchill (not that I'm much of a Churchill fan nowadays) was far more right wing than anything around today doesn't matter as what's true doesn't factor in.....he only cares about winning, not what the truth is.

So we continually get the message that voting 'Trump' and 'Farage' is encouraging the return of a form of Hitler or neo Nazis.....what he's really saying is that he wants anything that would threaten his non European power base wiped out. He doesn't actually believe that anything like Hitler is coming back.....but any victory for anything even slightly nationalistic sets off emotional alarm bells in his type.
See the Bill Maher video in the immigration thread.
 
Why do I get the image of a black and white Cholmondley-Warner sketch from Harry Enfield of Willo and Jacob Rees-Mogg?
Your comment was the catalyst for raucous guffaws.
🤣🤣🤣

There are those,outside of HOL, who have compared me to Jacob, which is rather flattering !
He is a stately ornament and an estimable, urbane gentleman, I am a mere minnow.
 
See the Bill Maher video in the immigration thread.

Academic Agent, who is half Iranian, half Welsh himself but a very strong advocate of Europe for Europeans thinks that ultimately that western man will retain Europe.....even though he recognises the forces against it....I like this positive message.

 
Academic Agent, who is half Iranian, half Welsh himself but a very strong advocate of Europe for Europeans thinks that ultimately that western man will retain Europe.....even though he recognises the forces against it....I like this positive message.

It’s more than ‘’A little bit of adversity.’’ His optimism is admirable and something to cling onto right now but,

Look what happened to Lebanon once they were outnumbered. (Now the useful idiots consider Hezbollah to be Lebanon and Lebanese. Ok they run the country, but they aren’t THE people yet these people rewrite history and truth as we know)

Look what happened in Iran from 1979 and the Islamic Republic revolution. One of his parents must have emigrated from Iran to Britain to conceive him with his other Welsh parent. (Admitting defeat by leaving like you see and hear of here)
 
It’s more than ‘’A little bit of adversity.’’ His optimism is admirable and something to cling onto right now but,

Look what happened to Lebanon once they were outnumbered. (Now the useful idiots consider Hezbollah to be Lebanon and Lebanese. Ok they run the country, but they aren’t THE people yet these people rewrite history and truth as we know)

Look what happened in Iran from 1979 and the Islamic Republic revolution. One of his parents must have emigrated from Iran to Britain to conceive him with his other Welsh parent. (Admitting defeat)
You're not wrong.

Your point about Lebanon is a good one and can be applied to much of the middle east in general. Today it's accepted as Islamic but anyone who knows history understands that non Muslims were persecuted, murdered and pushed out and those that remained were into second class citizen status....Kind of ironic when you see the huge focus they apply to Israel....it's a double standard they apply because they see Israel as white, European and colonial.

What the Jews are doing to the Muslims over there is exactly what the Muslims would do to them if they get the chance, that was seen last October......All of it is horrible.

His is a positive message, even though he admits it won't happen in this generation (he's pretty annoyed with the boomers and western elites). However, the up and coming European youth are certainly more right wing and aren't taking kindly to this implicit and sometimes explicit second class citizen messaging the elites and progressives are selling them.

We will have to see how it goes, let's hope that we are around long enough to see more than just the green shoots emerge.
 
You're not wrong.

Your point about Lebanon is a good one and can be applied to much of the middle east in general. Today it's accepted as Islamic but anyone who knows history understands that non Muslims were persecuted, murdered and pushed out and those that remained were into second class citizen status....Kind of ironic when you see the huge focus they apply to Israel....it's a double standard they apply because they see Israel as white, European and colonial.

What the Jews are doing to the Muslims over there is exactly what the Muslims would do to them if they get the chance, that was seen last October......All of it is horrible.


His is a positive message, even though he admits it won't happen in this generation (he's pretty annoyed with the boomers and western elites). However, the up and coming European youth are certainly more right wing and aren't taking kindly to this implicit and sometimes explicit second class citizen messaging the elites and progressives are selling them.

We will have to see how it goes, let's hope that we are around long enough to see more than just the green shoots emerge.
Exactly. Here is another uncomfortable truth for the far left idiots. The LGBTQ+ and anything Islam including Palestine conundrum…

 
You're not wrong.
Every now and then I think about some of the reasons they come to the west from Islamic countries lacking in freedoms, only to want to change the west and/or make it more like/just like where they’ve fled. I can’t make sense of it so don’t very often or try not to.
 
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Every now and then I think about some of the reasons they come to the west from Islamic countries lacking in freedoms, only to want to change the west and/or make it more like/just like where they’ve fled. I can’t make sense of it so don’t very often or try not to.
You can take the boy out of the ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the boy......it's not a pure truth because humans differ but it's not a falsehood either and over a demographic it carries a lot of truth.

Why do the English want to travel to Spain only to turn it into a little version of England.....it's just human nature to connect to your culture when you're in a foreign environment. Unless the numbers of your community are small you have no real reason to assimilate. So you connect more to your cultural roots than integrate into the majority culture....Lots do both for work or convenience sake but they regard themselves as 'other'. Tebbit's cricket test was always accurate.

On the gay stuff I can hardly be accused of being a fan of alphabet ideology and I have far more of Thatcher's 1980s attitude of tolerance but not promotion....I think it's played its part (along with feminism and neoliberal economics) in destroying the birth rate (which is a future disaster for everybody).....but it's certainly true that Islam makes this look like I'm flying a rainbow flag in comparison.

Gay people can be leaders in the DR for example....John Dee is a prominent name......David Starkey being a more well known example. I don't think you could ever have that in Islam.
 
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There are a lot of people who believe ignorant pieces of propaganda then.

Whilst undoubtedly true, as any casual reading of these pages will verify, the link indicates a determination to eradicate different standards rather than introduce them.
 
750,000 isn't at the top end.
A 2020 report for the Pew Research Center estimated that at the end of 2017, 800,000 to 1.2 million people were already living in the UK without a valid residence permit, which is about 1.2% to 1.8% of the whole population.
That estimates vary is obvious going to be the case. They are estimates, not headcount’s. I was using official figures, produced by the ONS who have greater resources than others.

Even 1.8% is still a tiny proportion.
 
That estimates vary is obvious going to be the case. They are estimates, not headcount’s. I was using official figures, produced by the ONS who have greater resources than others.

Even 1.8% is still a tiny proportion.
The figure I used is the one quoted in Hansard.
 
That estimates vary is obvious going to be the case. They are estimates, not headcount’s. I was using official figures, produced by the ONS who have greater resources than others.

Even 1.8% is still a tiny proportion.
SO tiny that it’s only costing circa £9Million per day now to accommodate the illegal element of that ‘tiny proportion’ in hotels 🙄
 

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