Tory Leadership Race

[nead1]

Presumably you therefore believe the countries problems are tied into membership of the EHCR given that he apparently wants any shadow cabinet members to agree to withdrawal as a condition of being appointed?
For me, I have to say I completely disagree. Exactly what benefits and freedoms not being an EHCR member would create is far from clear. Does he, for example, think that we could simply send all illegal migrants back to France, Belgium or other countries? He also seems completely unbothered by the loss of gravitas on the world stage that would be created by leaving an institution we were proud to play a leading role in creating. Frankly, I find it hard to believe how any serious candidate could make it front and centre of a campaign.

 

[beak]

With the greatest of respect, the sentiments are a gumbo of tripe and a tornado of hogwash. 🙁

A very poor post,the tory i've a right to rule inspite of the election result coming through very strongly.Learn some humility.

 

[Willo]

A very poor post,the tory i've a right to rule inspite of the election result coming through very strongly.Learn some humility.

With respect I have consistently stated that we lost the trust of the electorate and we have to earn the right to be heard and to regain that trust.

The journey will be challenging but not impossible.Many of those who deserted the Conservatives in 2024 may not have abandoned the party for good, but they will need some convincing to give it a fair hearing at the next General Election.

 

[cryrst]

Presumably you therefore believe the countries problems are tied into membership of the EHCR given that he apparently wants any shadow cabinet members to agree to withdrawal as a condition of being appointed?
For me, I have to say I completely disagree. Exactly what benefits and freedoms not being an EHCR member would create is far from clear. Does he, for example, think that we could simply send all illegal migrants back to France, Belgium or other countries? He also seems completely unbothered by the loss of gravitas on the world stage that would be created by leaving an institution we were proud to play a leading role in creating. Frankly, I find it hard to believe how any serious candidate could make it front and centre of a campaign.

Labour made some pretty ambitious claims front and centre of their campaign. Reneged on most within weeks but still got elected and cracked on with their lying two faced socialist anti Indigenous actions.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

And it's a chance to criticise working class people.
There are also many who are working more than one job to stay afloat and working on later in life, often in physically demanding jobs, than they should need to do.

Undoubtedly true but they are hardly lazy, feckless or workshy.

There’s no criticism at all of working class people. The criticism is of the non working class people.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Maybe not a few decades but a few and another few and it will be the case…

UK whites will be minority by 2100

Whites will be an ethnic minority in Britain by the end of the century. Analysis of official figures indicate that, at current fertility rates and levels of immigration, there will be more non-whites than whites by 2100.

www.theguardian.com

And Stirling’s description and analysis of you yesterday was spot on. I’ll repost it.

If that proves to be true by then no one will notice or care. We will all be long gone, as will our children. For the generations that follow it will be completely normal. Many changes will have flowed under the bridges and the communities that exist today won’t by then.

Stirling is never spot on. He comes to this issue, as others here do, from a position of xenophobic prejudice, with attitudes rooted in what was and neither what is or what can be.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

£9M x 365

I thought even you could’ve worked that out! 🙄

How could I? Or anyone else for that matter.

I suspect that’s the cost of housing the asylum seekers. Which, as I tried to tell you, is not the subject. The subject is the number of illegal immigrants. Quantifying their cost is impossible.

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

I'm always fascinated by the reference to working people. Starmer and his gang make constant claims that working people are who they want to help more than any other.

But, what's the definition of a working person? Surely 99% of the population are at work to earn a living. Heck, even the Royal family describe themselves as 'The Firm' . I think it's outdated and very typical of old school Labour, left wing attitudes to try to pigeon hole lower paid folk as working class.

As far as I'm concerned we're all working people, at least I was until I retired.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Returning the debate to the Conservative leadership election, I have today received my ballot paper in the post.

I am four-square behind Robert Jenrick who has asserted that should he be victorious he will appoint Jacob Rees-Mogg as Party Chairman, an erudite luminary and a quintessential English gentleman.

Hardly a vote winner though, except among other “quintessential English gentleman” such as yourself. Such folk are as rare as hens teeth in 2024.

For most he is an embarrassment. If you truly believe that’s the way back for the Tory Party then you are even more out of touch than most of your contributions suggest.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

With respect I have consistently stated that we lost the trust of the electorate and we have to earn the right to be heard and to regain that trust.

The journey will be challenging but not impossible.Many of those who deserted the Conservatives in 2024 may not have abandoned the party for good, but they will need some convincing to give it a fair hearing at the next General Election.

It cannot be achieved with either of these two candidates as the leader.

The only way back is to retake the centre. Moving to the right will only be digging the hole deeper, not finding ladders to climb back out.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Undoubtedly true but they are hardly lazy, feckless or workshy.

There’s no criticism at all of working class people. The criticism is of the non working class people.

Most of whom are apparently the saviours of the NHS.

UK unemployment rate by ethnicity 2024 | Statista

As of the third quarter of 2024, the unemployment rate for people of white ethnicity in the United Kingdom was 3.6 percent, the lowest of the provided ethnic groups in this quarter.

www.statista.com

 

[nead1]

Labour made some pretty ambitious claims front and centre of their campaign. Reneged on most within weeks but still got elected and cracked on with their lying two faced socialist anti Indigenous actions.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Labour made some pretty ambitious claims front and centre of their campaign. Reneged on most within weeks but still got elected and cracked on with their lying two faced socialist anti Indigenous actions.

They have 4 and 1/2 years to get things straight. What happens now will be forgotten. Not by those implacably opposed to Labour but by those who really matter.

By then the Tories will be fighting Reform for the right wing protest vote and the biggest threat to Labour will come from the LibDems with a policy of re-entering the EU and securing PR. By then the electorate will be ready to munch on that fresh green grass. Coalition beckons.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Most of whom are apparently the saviours of the NHS.

UK unemployment rate by ethnicity 2024 | Statista

As of the third quarter of 2024, the unemployment rate for people of white ethnicity in the United Kingdom was 3.6 percent, the lowest of the provided ethnic groups in this quarter.

www.statista.com

I don’t see why!

Those stats demand further context to explain the potential reasons.

 

[nead1]

Labour made some pretty ambitious claims front and centre of their campaign. Reneged on most within weeks but still got elected and cracked on with their lying two faced socialist anti Indigenous actions.

The issue is not about Labour however; it's about Jenrick having leaving the ECHR as front and centre of his campaign. If this happened, the UK would join those noted luminaries - Russia and Belarus - as being the only European countries who are not members. What kind of vision does that demonstrate aside from what appears to be a personal obsession with anything that has European in its title.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I don’t see why!

Those stats demand further context to explain the potential reasons.

Right. Obviously they're not lazy freeloaders when that description doesn't fit the argument.

 

[Willo]

The issue is not about Labour however; it's about Jenrick having leaving the ECHR as front and centre of his campaign. If this happened, the UK would join those noted luminaries - Russia and Belarus - as being the only European countries who are not members. What kind of vision does that demonstrate aside from what appears to be a personal obsession with anything that has European in its title.

The ECHR has made it impossible to secure our borders.

Furthermore, the treaty has stymied the removal of terrorists and dangerous foreign criminals.

Those on the right of the party (Which includes Yours Truly) have increasingly blamed the convention for enabling failed asylum seekers to challenge their removal from the UK.

 

[nead1]

If one assumes what you say is correct albeit I doubt it, the issue becomes one of reform and building the case for it rather than walking out. Bear in mind, the ECHR was set up (under British influence) to protect human rights and freedoms of people across Europe - something that I would assume we would all agree with albeit not Belarus and Russia.

Its also worth noting that the ECHR was incorporated into UK law through the Human Rights Act so this is also a UK legislative issue not only European. As to Jenrick, non of the other Conservative candidates or mainstream politicians have taken his position - it just feels like campaigning to the extreme fringes of the Conservative party who seem uncomfortable with the shape of modern Britain.

 

[Willo]

If one assumes what you say is correct albeit I doubt it, the issue becomes one of reform and building the case for it rather than walking out. Bear in mind, the ECHR was set up (under British influence) to protect human rights and freedoms of people across Europe - something that I would assume we would all agree with albeit not Belarus and Russia.

Its also worth noting that the ECHR was incorporated into UK law through the Human Rights Act so this is also a UK legislative issue not only European. As to Jenrick, non of the other Conservative candidates or mainstream politicians have taken his position - it just feels like campaigning to the extreme fringes of the Conservative party who seem uncomfortable with the shape of modern Britain.

Thanks to Tony Blair !

Apropos "Reform and building the case for it", it would require getting 45 other countries to agree to any such changes and this could prove virtually impossible.
I believe that in the Leadership election all the candidates agreed the ECHR was not working in Britain's interest but Jenrick was the only one who gallivanted down the path of leaving.

Tomorrow I shall be tuning into a Conservative Party TV leadership hustings at 7pm LIVE on GB News.

For avoidance of doubt I am on the ERG wing of the party as opposed to "One Nation" or "Tory Reform Group" !!!!

 

[cryrst]

If that proves to be true by then no one will notice or care. We will all be long gone, as will our children. For the generations that follow it will be completely normal. Many changes will have flowed under the bridges and the communities that exist today won’t by then.

Stirling is never spot on. He comes to this issue, as others here do, from a position of xenophobic prejudice, with attitudes rooted in what was and neither what is or what can be.

What a sad thought from a sad old man.
Just to be PC you will be happy for an influx of foreigners to dilute the population from white to brown. And just because us and our kids won’t be here it’s ok.
If reincarnation is real I hope you come back and get plonked in the middle of a ghetto in some s*** hole being created as we speak.