Sentences too harsh!

[georgenorman]

The EU has delegated responsibilities which when exercised then need to be implemented into national laws. National Parliaments being responsible for the implementation. The EU Parliament has an entirely different function to that of National Parliaments and to try to equate it with them is to start from the wrong place. It doesn’t work that way.

By far not everything is delegated to the EU. The principle of subsidiarity rules. Something Margaret Thatcher approved of and fought for. You only delegate matters where a common approach serves the whole better than separate ones do. In many areas each country retains full responsibility for decisions. Primarily taxation, budgets, defence and foreign policy. Deciding shoe sizes or product labelling is better done collectively.

You can huff and puff all you want, the fact remains that EU citizens cannot elect the people that make the laws that govern them. Name any democratic country where that state of affairs exists.

Here is that well known, far right, Little Englander, Tony Benn, on the subject:

By the way, EU countries do not have full control of their taxation, the EU sets minimum VAT rates. Also, those that use the Euro cannot set their own interest rates – a major tool in a country’s control of its economy.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You can huff and puff all you want, the fact remains that EU citizens cannot elect the people that make the laws that govern them. Name any democratic country where that state of affairs exists.

Here is that well known, far right, Little Englander, Tony Benn, on the subject:

By the way, EU countries do not have full control of their taxation, the EU sets minimum VAT rates. Also, those that use the Euro cannot set their own interest rates – a major tool in a country’s control of its economy.

You use Tony Benn as support! One of the most left leaning politicians of the last 50 years. I would not take his opinions any more seriously than I take yours.

I see that the EU have introduced a minimum VAT rate since we left but there are so many exceptions for lower rates it’s largely meaningless. When did we ever have a 15% rate anyway? The decision of what actual level we set would remain entirely with us whether in or out of the EU.

Every EU country, including us when a member, elects politicians who make the laws that govern them. Every directive passed by the EU is to fulfil their responsibilities under a Treaty. Every Treaty has been agreed by a democratically elected Parliament in each of the member states. On top of that every directive is transcribed into local law by the local parliament. Parliaments voted into office by the local people.

It may not be the democratic system you like but that doesn’t mean it’s undemocratic or not preferred by others. Including me. It avoids duplication of effort and wasting resources in countries which share common standards.

We left to “take back control “. What we have actually done is added huge costs and replaced the Eastern European workers we relied on with others from further away. It’s been just as big a disaster as I expected.

 

[becky]

You use Tony Benn as support! One of the most left leaning politicians of the last 50 years. I would not take his opinions any more seriously than I take yours.

I see that the EU have introduced a minimum VAT rate since we left but there are so many exceptions for lower rates it’s largely meaningless. When did we ever have a 15% rate anyway? The decision of what actual level we set would remain entirely with us whether in or out of the EU.

Every EU country, including us when a member, elects politicians who make the laws that govern them. Every directive passed by the EU is to fulfil their responsibilities under a Treaty. Every Treaty has been agreed by a democratically elected Parliament in each of the member states. On top of that every directive is transcribed into local law by the local parliament. Parliaments voted into office by the local people.

It may not be the democratic system you like but that doesn’t mean it’s undemocratic or not preferred by others. Including me. It avoids duplication of effort and wasting resources in countries which share common standards.

We left to “take back control “. What we have actually done is added huge costs and replaced the Eastern European workers we relied on with others from further away. It’s been just as big a disaster as I expected.

1st December 2008 to 31st December 2009.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

1st December 2008 to 31st December 2009.

And from June 1979 to March 1991.

 

[georgenorman]

You use Tony Benn as support! One of the most left leaning politicians of the last 50 years. I would not take his opinions any more seriously than I take yours.

I see that the EU have introduced a minimum VAT rate since we left but there are so many exceptions for lower rates it’s largely meaningless. When did we ever have a 15% rate anyway? The decision of what actual level we set would remain entirely with us whether in or out of the EU.

Every EU country, including us when a member, elects politicians who make the laws that govern them. Every directive passed by the EU is to fulfil their responsibilities under a Treaty. Every Treaty has been agreed by a democratically elected Parliament in each of the member states. On top of that every directive is transcribed into local law by the local parliament. Parliaments voted into office by the local people.

It may not be the democratic system you like but that doesn’t mean it’s undemocratic or not preferred by others. Including me. It avoids duplication of effort and wasting resources in countries which share common standards.

We left to “take back control “. What we have actually done is added huge costs and replaced the Eastern European workers we relied on with others from further away. It’s been just as big a disaster as I expected.

Becky and Teddy have answered your question as to when we had a 15% VAT rate.

You dismiss Benn’s accurate description of the lack of democracy in the EU merely because you consider him as an extreme left-winger, never mind the accuracy of what he said.

You talk of not taking opinions seriously, yet you expect us to take you seriously when you say that setting the actual level of VAT remained entirely with us when clearly there was a minimum rate set by the EU that we could not go below!

The unelected EU Commissioners propose and enact numerous laws – the vast majority having nothing whatsoever to do with any treaties.

Far from avoiding duplication, effort and wasting resources, the undemocratic EU system increases those things. It is of course laughable to describe Brexit as a big disaster – remining in the EU would have been the big disaster.

[By the way, still waiting for your list of democratic countries where their citizens do not elect the people that make the laws that govern them.]

More from Benn in the last year of his life:

 

[Badger11]

And so it continues

Man who sexually attacked his relatives is allowed to STAY in the UK

The man in his 50s, originally from central Africa, was found guilty of vile sex attacks on the three young girls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Badger11]

And so it continues

Man who sexually attacked his relatives is allowed to STAY in the UK

The man in his 50s, originally from central Africa, was found guilty of vile sex attacks on the three young girls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Perhaps one of this man's kids will grow up to commit violent crimes. It has been known to happen as our current PM is only to aware.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

1st December 2008 to 31st December 2009.

Ok, I had forgotten that as it travelled on its inevitable upwards journey. I cannot though imagine it ever being set as the standard rate again. Only as an exception.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Becky and Teddy have answered your question as to when we had a 15% VAT rate.

You dismiss Benn’s accurate description of the lack of democracy in the EU merely because you consider him as an extreme left-winger, never mind the accuracy of what he said.

You talk of not taking opinions seriously, yet you expect us to take you seriously when you say that setting the actual level of VAT remained entirely with us when clearly there was a minimum rate set by the EU that we could not go below!

The unelected EU Commissioners propose and enact numerous laws – the vast majority having nothing whatsoever to do with any treaties.

Far from avoiding duplication, effort and wasting resources, the undemocratic EU system increases those things. It is of course laughable to describe Brexit as a big disaster – remining in the EU would have been the big disaster.

[By the way, still waiting for your list of democratic countries where their citizens do not elect the people that make the laws that govern them.]

More from Benn in the last year of his life:

Benn was as entitled to his opinions as you are to yours. That happens in a democracy! Which existed here when he expressed them. Which was when we were in the EU!

Strangely though other people are too and they achieve their aims by voting in representatives, who during our time as EU members delegated certain responsibilities to a central body.

So you don’t like the outcome and think it’s undemocratic! Your opinion is not shared by me. Back in 2016 more people were said to agree with you than me, though that was disputed at the time and was certainly untrue as negotiations proceeded. It’s even less true today.

“The European Union is based on the rule of law. This means that every action taken by the EU is founded on treaties that have been approved democratically by its members.”

Those words come directly from the EU’s own website.

You want a list of democratic countries where the people don’t elect the lawmakers? You compile it because I cannot! It cannot include any in the EU.

Anyone who thinks us leaving the EU has decreased costs and improved prosperity is deluded. Every time I visit a EU country now I am struck by the way everything seems better. The infrastructure is better. The people dressed better and seem healthier. The live a better lifestyle and appear happier. They are going forwards whilst we are going backwards.

Leaving was undoubtedly a huge mistake which is now regretted by most of us. There always will be a deluded minority who believe us being on our own is worth the pain. Hopefully we will see them put in their rightful place during my lifetime.

 

[Spiderman]

Benn was as entitled to his opinions as you are to yours. That happens in a democracy! Which existed here when he expressed them. Which was when we were in the EU!

Strangely though other people are too and they achieve their aims by voting in representatives, who during our time as EU members delegated certain responsibilities to a central body.

So you don’t like the outcome and think it’s undemocratic! Your opinion is not shared by me. Back in 2016 more people were said to agree with you than me, though that was disputed at the time and was certainly untrue as negotiations proceeded. It’s even less true today.

“The European Union is based on the rule of law. This means that every action taken by the EU is founded on treaties that have been approved democratically by its members.”

Those words come directly from the EU’s own website.

You want a list of democratic countries where the people don’t elect the lawmakers? You compile it because I cannot! It cannot include any in the EU.

Anyone who thinks us leaving the EU has decreased costs and improved prosperity is deluded. Every time I visit a EU country now I am struck by the way everything seems better. The infrastructure is better. The people dressed better and seem healthier. The live a better lifestyle and appear happier. They are going forwards whilst we are going backwards.

Leaving was undoubtedly a huge mistake which is now regretted by most of us. There always will be a deluded minority who believe us being on our own is worth the pain. Hopefully we will see them put in their rightful place during my lifetime.

Your second to last paragraph is laughable. Presumably this is just your opinion rather than fact?

 

[georgenorman]

Benn was as entitled to his opinions as you are to yours. That happens in a democracy! Which existed here when he expressed them. Which was when we were in the EU!

Strangely though other people are too and they achieve their aims by voting in representatives, who during our time as EU members delegated certain responsibilities to a central body.

So you don’t like the outcome and think it’s undemocratic! Your opinion is not shared by me. Back in 2016 more people were said to agree with you than me, though that was disputed at the time and was certainly untrue as negotiations proceeded. It’s even less true today.

“The European Union is based on the rule of law. This means that every action taken by the EU is founded on treaties that have been approved democratically by its members.”

Those words come directly from the EU’s own website.

You want a list of democratic countries where the people don’t elect the lawmakers? You compile it because I cannot! It cannot include any in the EU.

Anyone who thinks us leaving the EU has decreased costs and improved prosperity is deluded. Every time I visit a EU country now I am struck by the way everything seems better. The infrastructure is better. The people dressed better and seem healthier. The live a better lifestyle and appear happier. They are going forwards whilst we are going backwards.

Leaving was undoubtedly a huge mistake which is now regretted by most of us. There always will be a deluded minority who believe us being on our own is worth the pain. Hopefully we will see them put in their rightful place during my lifetime.

You say that the MEPs voted in by the electorate “delegated certain responsibilities to a central body”. The MEPs did not have those powers and responsibilities to delegate. It’s like saying prisoners in jail delegate power to prison guards.
You can duck and weave as much as you like, but the fact remains that EU citizens are unable to elect the people that make the laws that govern and tax them.
Your penultimate paragraph is beyond parody. [Thought a snap from the Utopia of France would be helpful.]

 

[Rudi Hedman]

And so it continues

Man who sexually attacked his relatives is allowed to STAY in the UK

The man in his 50s, originally from central Africa, was found guilty of vile sex attacks on the three young girls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The judge only sentenced him to 3 years for raping his step daughter and her 2 female cousins. I expect our judiciary and establishment worshipper believes in this too.

And the sight of Yvette Balls (was Cooper) makes me sick due to her ugliness and statements.

 

[Spiderman]

So mental health issues keep many out of prison but not this person. Why is that?

Southport riots: Ex-soldier jailed for anti-Islam Facebook posts

Daffron Williams posts included one of men in Islamic clothing holding swords, chasing a young boy.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Your second to last paragraph is laughable. Presumably this is just your opinion rather than fact?

It’s my observation.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You say that the MEPs voted in by the electorate “delegated certain responsibilities to a central body”. The MEPs did not have those powers and responsibilities to delegate. It’s like saying prisoners in jail delegate power to prison guards.
You can duck and weave as much as you like, but the fact remains that EU citizens are unable to elect the people that make the laws that govern and tax them.
Your penultimate paragraph is beyond parody. [Thought a snap from the Utopia of France would be helpful.]

I didn’t say that.

The MEPs have a specific role within the EU structure which does not involve deciding anything on behalf of their own countries.

I am talking only about national parliaments who sign treaties which thereby delegate responsibility for developing laws in specific areas and then for transmitting them into local law. We choose those parliaments. Thus we decide. Read what the EU themselves say. It’s in my previous post.

I reported my observations, which are completely genuine. The only slightly dodgy place I visited in the last couple of years was Naples but even there the people seemed more prosperous than us.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The judge only sentenced him to 3 years for raping his step daughter and her 2 female cousins. I expect our judiciary and establishment worshipper believes in this too.

And the sight of Yvette Balls (was Cooper) makes me sick due to her ugliness and statements.

I neither believe nor disbelieve.

I don’t know because I don’t have the facts. Only the Judge does. All anyone else has is what has been reported. If you trust the right wing media to provide you with an objective summary then you are even more deluded than I previously thought.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

So mental health issues keep many out of prison but not this person. Why is that?

Southport riots: Ex-soldier jailed for anti-Islam Facebook posts

Daffron Williams posts included one of men in Islamic clothing holding swords, chasing a young boy.

www.bbc.co.uk

From the report:-

“Judge Lloyd-Clarke also said she noted his mental ill health, but said his actions were serious and had crossed the custody threshold.”

You aren’t a Judge. She is. It’s her job to weigh up everything, which she is trained to do.

 

[georgenorman]

I didn’t say that.

The MEPs have a specific role within the EU structure which does not involve deciding anything on behalf of their own countries.

I am talking only about national parliaments who sign treaties which thereby delegate responsibility for developing laws in specific areas and then for transmitting them into local law. We choose those parliaments. Thus we decide. Read what the EU themselves say. It’s in my previous post.

I reported my observations, which are completely genuine. The only slightly dodgy place I visited in the last couple of years was Naples but even there the people seemed more prosperous than us.

Of course you did say it. I’m glad you agree that the role of MEPs does not involve deciding anything on behalf of their own countries (or on behalf of anyone else for that matter – apart from themselves perhaps when they fill out their expenses forms)!!!! The government signing treaties merely emphasises the fact that the electorate would not be able to elect the people that would propose and enact the EU laws and taxes that they would be subjected to. It is truly risible that you base your justification of rejoining the EU on your observations of how people dressed in the odd visit you may have made to EU member countries.

 

[cryrst]

From the report:-

“Judge Lloyd-Clarke also said she noted his mental ill health, but said his actions were serious and had crossed the custody threshold.”

You aren’t a Judge. She is. It’s her job to weigh up everything, which she is trained to do.

So with the guy raping his daughters you state that the full fact s are not known so it’s the judges decision but in this you appear to be more than happy that what’s reported is correct. Not questioning his ptsd and how that has affected him.
I find that a bit strange. Maybe you see what others don’t?

 

[georgenorman]

So with the guy raping his daughters you state that the full fact s are not known so it’s the judges decision but in this you appear to be more than happy that what’s reported is correct. Not questioning his ptsd and how that has affected him.
I find that a bit strange. Maybe you see what others don’t?

You could call it left-sided vision.