Reform

[Stirlingsays]

Farage is the only reason Reform is on the map. Ben Habib needs to keep his mouth shut. His whining does nothing for the cause he claims to fight for. Rupert Lowe also clearly does not recognise that Farage is the person that will take Reform forward. He and Habib are now out because they didn't park their egos when Reform were on the rise.
All that matters right now is that Reform continues to gain support from the electorate. The structure of the party can be scrutinised later. These two idiots are trying to jeopadize that because they think they should be in charge. Richard Tice, by contrast, knows the value of the Farage brand.

Well, I would say this.

What is the point of Reform if what it gives you fails us anyway? Am I meant to be voting for Tory boys again....just Thatcherites who hold the ship steady while we continue to be replaced?

I share these concerns.....and it's about half of Reform's base not just Habib and Lowe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899083079391551924

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Well, I would say this.

What is the point of Reform if what it gives you fails us anyway? Am I meant to be voting for Tory boys again....just Thatcherites who hold the ship steady while we continue to be replaced?

I share these concerns.....and it's about half of Reform's base not just Habib and Lowe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899083079391551924

What is the point of ANY political party if it cannot command enough votes to even have an influence?

I am sure that there are some hard left advocates who are concerned that the Labour Party are back on the centre ground again. Extremes have concerns. They rarely have power.

By the way, we aren’t being replaced. We are expanding and diversifying. Just as we have always done. Only the insecure fear change. The secure embrace, manage and mould it.

 

[Matov]

Well, I would say this.

What is the point of Reform if what it gives you fails us anyway? Am I meant to be voting for Tory boys again....just Thatcherites who hold the ship steady while we continue to be replaced?

I share these concerns.....and it's about half of Reform's base not just Habib and Lowe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899083079391551924

This.

I do not want just another version of the Tory party. I want something new. Something that goes way beyond 'reform'.

Not going to be played the fool any longer.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Well, I would say this.

What is the point of Reform if what it gives you fails us anyway? Am I meant to be voting for Tory boys again....just Thatcherites who hold the ship steady while we continue to be replaced?

I share these concerns.....and it's about half of Reform's base not just Habib and Lowe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899083079391551924

Without someone who the electorate will vote for, we will have another round of Tory or Labour.

I'm not sure how far to the right people think this country will go, but I suspect that something somewhere right of the right of the Tory Party is a far as the majority will go.

More importantly, a significant result for Reform at the next election might well involve some cooperation with the Tories. Politics is often about compromises. It's also about personalities. Your Habibs and Lowes don't have street cred'.
Whatever people may think of him, I'll take Farage over the current disaster any day of the week. The alternative is Reform imploding due to egos and an unrealistic agenda, and ultimately heading into an election with a nobody leader.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Without someone who the electorate will vote for, we will have another round of Tory or Labour.

I'm not sure how far to the right people think this country will go, but I suspect that something somewhere right of the right of the Tory Party is a far as the majority will go.

More importantly, a significant result for Reform at the next election might well involve some cooperation with the Tories. Politics is often about compromises. It's also about personalities. Your Habibs and Lowes don't have street cred'.
Whatever people may think of him, I'll take Farage over the current disaster any day of the week. The alternative is Reform imploding due to egos and an unrealistic agenda, and ultimately heading into an election with a nobody leader.

Farage's problem is that he essentially wants right wing Tories as Reform MPs......His problem is that the people likely to want to be Reform MPs are much more in the Lowe and Habib vein than the basic Tory boy or blue rinser Tory girl.

Callum formerly of Lotuseasters sums it up well here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899177886537449495

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Farage's problem is that he essentially wants right wing Tories as Reform MPs......His problem is that the people likely to want to be Reform MPs are much more in the Lowe and Habib vein than the basic Tory boy or blue rinser Tory girl.

Callum formerly of Lotuseasters sums it up well here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899177886537449495

If we want an alternative to the two party system, we have to get seats in Parliament first and worry about the details later.
Irrespective of any other discussion, Farage is the man that the public will vote for.

I see no other way forward beyond pushing politics towards the right of the Tories, and that is happening. Public perception is everything. If we undermine Farage, we undermine the whole process.
It won't matter what policies the party adopts or which candidates it has if they don't get enough votes. They already have the hardcore right wing voter. They need the average guy too.

 

[Stirlingsays]

If we want an alternative to the two party system, we have to get seats in Parliament first and worry about the details later.
Irrespective of any other discussion, Farage is the man that the public will vote for.

I see no other way forward beyond pushing politics towards the right of the Tories, and that is happening. Public perception is everything. If we undermine Farage, we undermine the whole process.
It won't matter what policies the party adopts or which candidates it has if they don't get enough votes. They already have the hardcore right wing voter. They need the average guy too.

Ok, but no one made Farage push Habib and Lowe out.....that appears to be his decision.

I get the idea of a big tent, but that's not what is happening is it. If Farage wants to push the right out of Reform then I myself am not interested and that right wing will look elsewhere.

Lowe is very popular with the base especially and since it appears that the chairman seems to be a part of all this, there is quite the schism.the chairman is not that popular with the base and these accusations don't appear to be panning out.

If Farage doesn't sort this out and Habib and Lowe start a new party he will only have himself to blame because I have to be true to my principles and vote for people who would actually solve problems.

Does that make a difference? Don't know.....Does it matter, as like Matov says we know in truth there is no voting our way out of this.

The fun and games starts when there's a collapse......Hopefully a long time off, but you have seen what happens in France and Romania when anyone actually right wing looks to be taking over.....the same would happen here.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Ok, but no one made Farage push Habib and Lowe out.....that appears to be his decision.

I get the idea of a big tent, but that's not what is happening is it. If Farage wants to push the right out of Reform then I myself am not interested and that right wing will look elsewhere.

Lowe is very popular with the base especially and since it appears that the chairman seems to be a part of all this, there is quite the schism.the chairman is not that popular with the base and these accusations don't appear to be panning out.

If Farage doesn't sort this out and Habib and Lowe start a new party he will only have himself to blame because I have to be true to my principles and vote for people who would actually solve problems.

Does that make a difference? Don't know.....Does it matter, as like Matov says we know in truth there is not voting our way out of this.

The fun and games starts when there's a collapse......Hopefully a long time off, but you have seen what happens in France and Romania when anyone actually right wing looks to be taking over.....the same would happen here.

Dividing the Right will only result in failure. I cannot look beyond the next election when we are talking about change. Stating an alternative party is an act of self harm.
Farage might not represent all of the Reform membership, but he will get votes in an election. He is the brand that can get seats.
The further right who might go with Lowe will remain in the wilderness as usual.
I see no point in holding on to principles if it results in another Labour government.
The glorious revolution ain't happening however much Matov wants it.

 

[Apollofuzz]

What is the point of ANY political party if it cannot command enough votes to even have an influence?

I am sure that there are some hard left advocates who are concerned that the Labour Party are back on the centre ground again. Extremes have concerns. They rarely have power.

By the way, we aren’t being replaced. We are expanding and diversifying. Just as we have always done. Only the insecure fear change. The secure embrace, manage and mould it.

In the last general election Reform gained the 3rd most votes 4,117,610 (14.3%) but only 5 seats compare that to Liberal Democrat 3,519,143 (12.2%) which equated to 72 seats and independents 564,042 (2%) = 6 seats, I fully appreciate that is the way our system works maybe a discussion for another day, its not a problem with the amount of votes just how they translate to seats, I would even argue having that kind of support has an influence on each constituency they stand in forcing others to review their position and even form pacts.

 

[steeleye20]

Labour actually polled badly in the 2024 election and are only there by virtue of the archaic voting system.

I was really surprised as I thought it was a given that the system worked only for the tories.

Starmer polled less than Corbyn in 2019, and his miserable govt looks like a tory replica.

Benefit cuts what a change, it's run longer than 'the mousetrap'. (21 years).

😎

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Labour actually polled badly in the 2024 election and are only there by virtue of the archaic voting system.

I was really surprised as I thought it was a given that the system worked only for the tories.

Starmer polled less than Corbyn in 2019, and his miserable govt looks like a tory replica.

Benefit cuts what a change, it's run longer than 'the mousetrap'. (21 years).

😎

Sounds like a pretty good mousetrap. Unless you mean the play but 21 years ago that had already been on for over 50 years.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Without someone who the electorate will vote for, we will have another round of Tory or Labour.

I'm not sure how far to the right people think this country will go, but I suspect that something somewhere right of the right of the Tory Party is a far as the majority will go.

More importantly, a significant result for Reform at the next election might well involve some cooperation with the Tories. Politics is often about compromises. It's also about personalities. Your Habibs and Lowes don't have street cred'.
Whatever people may think of him, I'll take Farage over the current disaster any day of the week. The alternative is Reform imploding due to egos and an unrealistic agenda, and ultimately heading into an election with a nobody leader.

It’s unusual for us to agree on anything but we do on the importance of Farage to Reform. Without him they would just be a bunch of ugly nasties without any chance of influencing anything.

 

[Badger11]

Labour actually polled badly in the 2024 election and are only there by virtue of the archaic voting system.

I was really surprised as I thought it was a given that the system worked only for the tories.

Starmer polled less than Corbyn in 2019, and his miserable govt looks like a tory replica.

Benefit cuts what a change, it's run longer than 'the mousetrap'. (21 years).

😎

Exactly government after government has claimed it will crack down on benefit cheats and scroungers and yet the bill keeps getting bigger and the number of people out of work keeps increasing.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Labour actually polled badly in the 2024 election and are only there by virtue of the archaic voting system.

I was really surprised as I thought it was a given that the system worked only for the tories.

Starmer polled less than Corbyn in 2019, and his miserable govt looks like a tory replica.

Benefit cuts what a change, it's run longer than 'the mousetrap'. (21 years).

😎

Whoever was now in government would be facing the same challenges, and taking similar actions, even if they dressed them in different clothes.

No one wants to deprive the genuinely needed from the support necessary to ensure a reasonable life. The problem has always been how to separate them from those who milk the system unfairly without the effort required costing more than the benefit gained.

I would like to see it done even if it is economically costly. Lines need to be drawn and kept. The welfare state needs to be reestablished on a basis that everyone understands involves those who can work should work.

 

[Spiderman]

Whoever was now in government would be facing the same challenges, and taking similar actions, even if they dressed them in different clothes.

No one wants to deprive the genuinely needed from the support necessary to ensure a reasonable life. The problem has always been how to separate them from those who milk the system unfairly without the effort required costing more than the benefit gained.

I would like to see it done even if it is economically costly. Lines need to be drawn and kept. The welfare state needs to be reestablished on a basis that everyone understands involves those who can work should work.

So we are going to start with the economic migrants are we? We all know the answer,

 

[Spindle]

This.

I do not want just another version of the Tory party. I want something new. Something that goes way beyond 'reform'.

Not going to be played the fool any longer.

Well Reform are going to cut taxes for the wealthiest and tell everyone it's the immigrants fault that they are poorer whilst allowing them to pour in (like the Tories did). But guess what, they don't really care about that because tax cuts means more hoarding and wealth for them. We actually need the opposite.

 

[Spiderman]

Exactly government after government has claimed it will crack down on benefit cheats and scroungers and yet the bill keeps getting bigger and the number of people out of work keeps increasing.

True but businesses are starting to lay people off, thanks to Rachel from Accounts. Having a son who has desperately tried to find employment, of any kind, it really is difficult. If you have no retail experience shops don’t want you, how do you get experience then?

 

[Badger11]

True but businesses are starting to lay people off, thanks to Rachel from Accounts. Having a son who has desperately tried to find employment, of any kind, it really is difficult. If you have no retail experience shops don’t want you, how do you get experience then?

And it will get harder, this is the perfect time to lay off staff and blame the government.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

So we are going to start with the economic migrants are we? We all know the answer,

Who mentioned migrants?

Whoever cheats needs to be found and dealt with, whatever their background. There are, regrettably, plenty of choices.

 

[Spindle]

True but businesses are starting to lay people off, thanks to Rachel from Accounts. Having a son who has desperately tried to find employment, of any kind, it really is difficult. If you have no retail experience shops don’t want you, how do you get experience then?

Maybe he could identify as female and easily land a job thanks to DEI......


(sorry about this, in my experience in software eng hire the girls get offers left right and centre)