War in Ukraine

[Frenchaigle]

The amount of anti Americanism going around is borderline fruitcake, none of these people have anything constructive to say and is the usual lefty/socially liberal room temperature whining. It's like this is all a shock to them.....like some dimwit who can't play a move ahead in chess.

First they want to biff Putin on the nose, now they want to biff Trump on the nose.

None of them ever seem to head off to a trench though.....I mean at least the tiny number that did can be said to actually commit to their principles....even though it got some of them killed.

Not anti American at all but I am Anti MAGA .
They are poison.
As for Putin ...do me a favour ...pure evil .
Try your freedom of speech over there!! Yeah don't stand for election against Putin especially next to a balcony you might just lose your balance ...or better still succomb to " sudden death syndrome " pffff !

 

[Stirlingsays]

I suspect the 25 percent tariff Trump has just slapped on the EU is probably behind some of the enjoyably unfettered criticism that Trump is getting from Europe's politicians.

I guess you can't blame them for that.....If he gives it he should be able to take it.

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895933891455959131

 

[glazedallover]

A lot of people have avoided going to the trenches. Including brave Bonespurs. Those that can do. Those that can't or won't teach.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I suspect the 25 percent tariff Trump has just slapped on the EU is probably behind some of the enjoyably unfettered criticism that Trump is getting from Europe's politicians.

I guess you can't blame them for that.....If he gives it he should be able to take it.

I doubt it. They were expecting that. The criticism is much broader than that and is 100% personal and not directed at either the USA or the institution of the Presidency. It’s because Trump is danger to world peace whilst posing as its saviour. They cannot stand aside. Now we must hear some wisdom coming from all the non sycophants in the USA.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895933891455959131

ahhh, so that's where the pensioners winter fuel allowance went ? Killing people at home, to save lives abroad.

 

[cryrst]

ahhh, so that's where the pensioners winter fuel allowance went ? Killing people at home, to save lives abroad.

Good point so If there is all this guaranteed interest why the hell has 2TK allowed all of the tax, NI and other negative financial changes to us.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Europe has put itself into the worst position possible......Not only are we going to be left with most of the costs of this war long term but we are going to be burdened with the security of Ukraine as well.

I know unreality is a disease of the typical European politician but I think even this is dawning on them.

Watching the mainstream media sell our new position makes me feel like I'm watching a disney movie.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Good point so If there is all this guaranteed interest why the hell has 2TK allowed all of the tax, NI and other negative financial changes to us.

It is only guaranteed if we don't give Russia back the frozen assets and the peace deal isn't decided yet.

Essentially we have boxed ourselves in.

Basing everything on interest, which would many years with your own economy as the guarantor.....when the world wide economy could crash is......Well, on the face of it, it's just not very bright.

 

[Stirlingsays]

We have to be careful here as I think there is a lot of unrealistic sentiment going around from some.

if the UK and France send troops to Ukraine, and Russian troops fire at them, we are on our own, as article 5 only applies to attacks that occur within a member state’s territory. NATO members can’t force other members to join them in foreign wars.

If we listened to some people we would end up with a lot of dead body bags for zero gain.

America wants out and we should be focused upon what works out best for us, not foreign countries.

 

[DanH]

We have to be careful here as I think there is a lot of unrealistic sentiment going around from some.

if the UK and France send troops to Ukraine, and Russian troops fire at them, we are on our own, as article 5 only applies to attacks that occur within a member state’s territory. NATO members can’t force other members to join them in foreign wars.

If we listened to some people we would end up with a lot of dead body bags for zero gain.

America wants out and we should be focused upon what works out best for us, not foreign countries.

Long term European security is what works out best for us. Whatever deal is signed needs to secure that as far as possible first and foremost.

All the current ‘deal’ does is strengthen Russia. There needs to be enough strength from the rest of the world not to encourage any more ‘special operations’.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Long term European security is what works out best for us. Whatever deal is signed needs to secure that as far as possible first and foremost.

All the current ‘deal’ does is strengthen Russia. There needs to be enough strength from the rest of the world not to encourage any more ‘special operations’.

My view is this, for whatever reasons....and believe me I could rant about it for pages.....we have left ourselves very vulnerable in terms of our military and via deliberate social policies the national pride required to fill it.

This means we can't take on 'Russia' even if that was a good idea....Even if you combine all of Europe's military (who went the same group think way) that's still the reality.

You need America's military to even have a stand-still fight......As nuts as that is with another nuclear power.

What we should be focused with....instead of having a media knocking ten bells out of Trump.....Is finding out what his red lines are and going with that.

Like I've rather angrily made the point on.....We (well the left and social liberals) put ourselves into this position over decades. There should to be a recognition of the reality of this instead of this 'make believe' that seems to be the discourse for most.

 

[eaglesdare]

At least now with the UKs support we can arrest Russians for some hurty memes.

It's just going to be an endless war now. 😴 No Ukraine elections keep the money flowing in. Maybe that was incentive enough to not agree a deal with the US.

 

[DanH]

My view is this, for whatever reasons....and believe me I could rant about it for pages.....we have left ourselves very vulnerable in terms of our military and via deliberate social policies the national pride required to fill it.

This means we can't take on 'Russia' even if that was a good idea....Even if you combine all of Europe's military (who went the same group think way) that's still the reality.

You need America's military to even have a stand-still fight......As nuts as that is with another nuclear power.

What we should be focused with....instead of having a media knocking ten bells out of Trump.....Is finding out what his red lines are and going with that.

Like I've rather angrily made the point on.....We (well the left and social liberals) put ourselves into this position over decades. There should to be a recognition of the reality of this instead of this 'make believe' that seems to be the discourse for most.

Tbf, I do actually agree with a lot of that. (If only you hadn’t crowbarred in your ‘left and social liberals’ to tick off my Stirling bingo card 🙂 )

 

[Stirlingsays]

Tbf, I do actually agree with a lot of that.

That's good, but unfortunately our media nor most of Europe's politicians aren't on that same page it seems. Their reaction to the trade tariffs (understandable) and Trump's rejection of Zelensky appears to be a full frontal assault on Trump, like we are stuck in 2016 or something......Personally I can't see the sense in it.

At the moment we have Musk tweeting that the US should get out of Nato and the UN.

While I don't agree with Starmer and our intelligence's obsession with Ukraine (well I get the 'sunken costs' reasons but still) however I think Starmer at least understands the diplomatic requirements in regards to Trump.

But ultimately if push comes to shove I think he goes with Europe and unfortunately because there appears to be an 'unreality' about the whole current discourse he might be forced into making that choice.

The problem though is that Europe is in no position to fight in Ukraine....but hey it could happen regardless.

 

[Matov]

Europe has put itself into the worst position possible......Not only are we going to be left with most of the costs of this war long term but we are going to be burdened with the security of Ukraine as well.

I know unreality is a disease of the typical European politician but I think even this is dawning on them.

Watching the mainstream media sell our new position makes me feel like I'm watching a disney movie.

Very much agree with all of this. Nothing makes any kind of sense now.

Time to hop on the back of the Tiger for a while on this one because something is very, very messed up.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Very much agree with all of this. Nothing makes any kind of sense now.

Time to hop on the back of the Tiger for a while on this one because something is very, very messed up.

The way things are going a six month holiday in Iceland might just start to make sense.

 

[Spindle]

I looked at both sides argument for how this war came to be and I'm sorry....because I know you believe every word coming from government and their legacy media (fed by intelligence) but I find Russia's version to be closer to the truth.

I'll repeat....because everytime someone says this they get accused of loving Putin....that I've always been against the 2022 invasion and I regard it as a tragedy.

However, It's not as if the evidence for the position of people like me isn't out there.

So we aren't going to agree on 'Putler' and this constant boomer obsession with WW2.....like we are permanently stuck in 1938....quite ironic given who this war is between.

Of course what I'm saying is speculation.....it's a politics forum.......most of what you read on here is opinion.....However, on how this war would go I've been quite accurate.

On the air support requirement from the US....that's what I heard, but yeah, it's speculation.......I'll be amazed if the US put any military in Ukraine anyway.....those days are over.

Rivitjoint has certainly been flying the Black sea and international airspace in the region. That means E3 Sentry has too. There's no way we aren't feeding battlefield info to Ukraine from distance, they can look right in.

I know this is BBC, but this happened. I can't understate how big an incident this would've been had Russian equipment been reliable enough to function, and the failure is one of the reasons why I don't think much of their equipment.

Rogue Russian pilot tried to shoot down RAF aircraft in 2022 - BBC News

The pilot fired two missiles - the first missed rather than malfunctioned, as was claimed at the time.

www.bbc.com

 

[Spindle]

ah stop. We are talking about Trump, not the Vatican.

Trump was right to tell Zelenski to f....off.

That you can't see what an astonishing debacle of diplomacy that was, that you clap your flippers to it, and how to just bark whatever Vance thinks, say a lot about you. Sad indictment.

 

[eaglesdare]

MSN

Weiterleitungshinweis

Interesting......it wasn't just Trump. Seems even sleepy joe was not happy with zelensky