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War in Ukraine

Ukraine was never owned the The West. Never should be. NATO have been expanding their flags ever Eastward.........and they started this War. And will hopefully now lose it. It may teach them some modesty going forward.

the US public are sick and tired of 100 years of constant Wars.
 
eaglesdare said:
There is also a lot of left wing posts. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you just want censorship and only views that align with your own and no balance then I suggest you go onto Bluesky.
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Outnumbered but also from accounts that tend to be accounts from actual people. There is a hell of a lot more pumping out the Russian narrative with anonymous usernames with a lot of numbers in them.
 
DanH said:
Outnumbered but also from accounts that tend to be accounts from actual people. There is a hell of a lot more pumping out the Russian narrative with anonymous usernames with a lot of numbers in them.
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Not long ago it was all left wing and right wing opinions censored 🤷🏻‍♂️

Maybe it is more "right wing" views but then what even is right wing these days? That's a whole different debate to be had.

If you don't like looking at other people's views then uninstall the app and go to Bluesky.
 
Looks like zelensky just got 2.6 billion from two tier kier and looks very happy with himself.

Trump said no and he threw his toys out of his pram.
 
DanH said:
It’s not loving Putin, it’s more that your sources tend to often just parrot or come quite close to the narrative that is being pumped out by the Kremlin, along with with nearly all the other ‘online right’ that have come to dominate social media over the last few years.

If you go on Twitter these days it’s awash with accounts who could basically be your clone repeating the same Russian talking points. You don’t help by often posting quite barely credible ‘commentators’ who aren’t bound by any sort of journalistic standards or laws.

When historians come back to look at this period the role that social media and those who have managed to sway (or more like buy) it in their favour and how many this has influenced will go down as the major factor in much of how the US position has changed since Trump got in.
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This comes down to the nature of truth.

You talk about swaying as if people have been fooled, yet you offer no evidence of this. All you have is denialism over one interpretation of events over another. I've looked at both.....I doubt you have. Indeed both narratives were explored pretty in depth by myself and Wisbech over a long period of time on Hol. The mainstream media only present one side and don't promote the evidence that the Russians have for their narrative.....Both sides want to play goodies and baddies as it ever was.

As for 'Russian talking points'.....I've answered this point before. It doesn't matter if it's Russian or Ukrainian or Indian talking points, all that matters is what is nearest the truth. I made the point that this type of argument echoes the same arguments made that people against the Iraq war were speaking 'Saddam Hussain' or Iraqi talking points......No, it doesn't matter whether it was Iraq saying that they didn't have weapons of mass destruction or Kelly expressing doubts.....All that matters is what is true and what isn't.

History is written by the winners Dan.....The untrue parts of history become unspoken about.....I think that's the direction of travel once this is all over.
 
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DanH said:
Outnumbered but also from accounts that tend to be accounts from actual people. There is a hell of a lot more pumping out the Russian narrative with anonymous usernames with a lot of numbers in them.
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It is certainly true that both sides have used massive numbers of bots to push their narratives......However, now that the Trump administration have taken over the pro Ukrainian bot numbers will go down somewhat.
 
PalazioVecchio said:
Ukraine was never owned the The West. Never should be. NATO have been expanding their flags ever Eastward.........and they started this War. And will hopefully now lose it. It may teach them some modesty going forward.

the US public are sick and tired of 100 years of constant Wars.
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It started mainly with the Bush administration pumping money into Ukraine to inch them away from Russia. I wouldn't say they started the war but they ignored all the warnings and interfered in Ukraine's politics to the extent that they provided much of the money for the coup in 2014......Russia were also pumping money into Ukraine but then again....it's their border country. If Russia had been doing this stuff in Mexico then America would have rightly been extremely p1ssed off as well.....as we saw in 60s Cuba.....America has the Monroe doctrine so the double standards are writ large.
 
DanH said:
So what? He then realised it was easier to buy his way into the Republican Party, buy the biggest social media platform to use as a propaganda tool, and now has the power he has always craved.

Everything you post on here is found over and over and over again by thousands of accounts on Twitter, loads of which are anonymous and regurgitate the same old sh*t over and over again. It’s then lapped up by the impressionable and repeated elsewhere like it’s all true.

It’s genuinely staggering to watch unfold.
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Wasn’t twitter put up for sale by the left leaning owners. If the fear was it would go more right wing why take the chance. When musk wanted to pull out of the purchase I reckon a few lefties on here shouted about him sticking to his deal. If I dig deep enough I may find one from you exactly saying such.
It’s a bit rich whingeing about its owner now !
 
Twitter was losing a lot of money despite being backed massively.

Musk came in and made an overvalued offer that they bit his hands off for......He even tried to lower the bid but lost out.

Despite a massive effort to destroy Twitter by corporations and Biden's administration they lost and Musk won.

Since the salt has been non stop.

However, Musk has done more good for humanity that the entire pool of his activist critics pooled together.
 
We have 'loaned' another 2.6 billion to Ukraine today all based upon interest payments on Russia's frozen European assets.....which amount to somewhere between 250-350 billion dollars.

I think in total, between Europe and America about 100 billion has been 'loaned' based upon interests payments on these frozen Russian assets.

This could be tricky for Trump when it comes to getting a peace deal that Russia will agree to let alone Ukraine......if those assets are given back then I should imagine the money given out will be lumbered onto the nations that held the Russian assets.....which is mostly Europe....which I think has over 200 billion....hopefully some kind of way through can be found.

If the assets aren't given back then it has consequences for foreign investments.....and that's the main reason the money hasn't been given to Ukraine in the first place.....but by securing such a huge amount via interest payments a problem has been created instead.

As long as these clowns don't end up leaving us holding the financial baby.....because I wouldn't put it past them at all.
 
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eaglesdare said:
I suggest watching the full video for context.

Zelensky kept asking for more support and money. Trump kept saying he wanted peace, lives saved and a deescaltion from ww3. Zelensky got agitated, lost his cool and attacked Vance to which we now see the 6 min viral clip.

Anyways there's 3 options to end the war:

1. Continue an endless war, loose countless more lives and Russia gets more and more of Ukraine.
2. Ukraine surrender.
3. Take the deal and end the war.

If the deal is signed it will effectively end the war. Russia will not attack American assets.
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The treatment of Zelenski was an absolute disgrace.
This was a set up, Vance showed just how evil he is by insulting Ukraine, insinuating that Zelenski leads people on propaganda tours of sites of russian war crimes .
These two gangsters railroading Ukraine is nauseating.
They talk of democracy ,give us lectures , try and overturn an election and then 4 years later free the same people that assaulted the police that protect the building they work in .
Shame on the democratic party for not locking up Trump
 
Being currently somewhere with only spasmodic communications the events of the last couple of days remain somewhat obscure.

However one thing that Trump has been doing makes no sense at all. Well actually there are many, but let me just identify this one.

He appears to think that Ukraine need to repay the USA for the support they have been given, and should agree to a mineral deal as the payment.

Zelensky disagrees and wants the deal to depend on a commitment from the USA which will guarantee Ukraine’s security. Trump just wants to be able to claim he has sponsored a deal.

That, if I understand things correctly, was what caused the extreme reaction from Trump and Vance yesterday. Something so undiplomatic as to be unprecedented in my lifetime.

Surely the USA, via the previous administration, gave that support without preconditions. The current administration cannot just undo that and rewrite history. Administrations change but the USA’s word is finite.

Zelensky is therefore completely correct to try to point that out and Trump no more than the bully boy he has always been in trying to ride roughshod over him.

Of course bullies exist and they can succeed. That sort of success always comes at a heavy long term cost though in ruined relationships and evaporation of trust. If a President’s word can just be ignored by the next one where does that leave the USA?

Tomorrow’s meeting will doubtless have some carefully formulated emulsion washed over the press releases whilst the closed sessions would be much more interesting to hear. I bet the security forces are very busy at present with strings being pulled everywhere.
 
Frenchaigle said:
The treatment of Zelenski was an absolute disgrace.
This was a set up, Vance showed just how evil he is by insulting Ukraine, insinuating that Zelenski leads people on propaganda tours of sites of russian war crimes .
These two gangsters railroading Ukraine is nauseating.
They talk of democracy ,give us lectures , try and overturn an election and then 4 years later free the same people that assaulted the police that protect the building they work in .
Shame on the democratic party for not locking up Trump
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Half of Hollywood got a tour around Kiev. Didint Bono also do a gig there? 🤣

Anyways zelensky got what he wanted. 2.6 billion from two tier kier. Smirking while Rachel from accounts signed on the dotted line.

Long may the war continue! 🙄 Let's just hope Russia do not escalate because America is done....
 
The amount of anti Americanism going around is borderline fruitcake, none of these people have anything constructive to say and is the usual lefty/socially liberal room temperature whining. It's like this is all a shock to them.....like some dimwit who can't play a move ahead in chess.

First they want to biff Putin on the nose, now they want to biff Trump on the nose.

None of them ever seem to head off to a trench though.....I mean at least the tiny number that did can be said to actually commit to their principles....even though it got some of them killed.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
The amount of anti Americanism going around is borderline fruitcake, none of these people have anything constructive to say and is the usual lefty/socially liberal room temperature whining. It's like this is all a shock to them.....like some dimwit who can't play a move ahead in chess.

First they want to biff Putin on the nose, now they want to biff Trump on the nose.

None of them ever seem to head off to a trench though.....I mean at least the tiny number that did can be said to actually commit to their principles....even though it got some of them killed.
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Not anti American at all but I am Anti MAGA .
They are poison.
As for Putin ...do me a favour ...pure evil .
Try your freedom of speech over there!! Yeah don't stand for election against Putin especially next to a balcony you might just lose your balance ...or better still succomb to " sudden death syndrome " pffff !
 
Frenchaigle said:
Not anti American at all but I am Anti MAGA .
They are poison.
As for Putin ...do me a favour ...pure evil .
Try your freedom of speech over there!! Yeah don't stand for election against Putin especially next to a balcony you might just lose your balance ...or better still succomb to " sudden death syndrome " pffff !
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You're fun.

Hey, I'm pro all that America first stuff but I get where you are coming from.
 
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