War in Ukraine

[kevlee]

I watched Vance and trump's interaction with Zelensky, and it left me a bit gob-smacked.

Zelensky told to leave White House after angry spat with Trump and Vance

The Ukrainian leader was told to leave the White House after an angry exchange with the US president.

www.bbc.co.uk

Why would you sit Zelensky in front of the TV cameras of the worlds press and demand "Say, THANKYOU"

Vance came across as a psychopath. Maybe he's spent too much time with Trump.

What will happen today,...if anything. ?

I’m abroad and been watching in on foreign news and what you have said seems widespread. Vance looked like he was on drugs. Zelensky seemed to take it all quite calmly- but Trump and Vance’s tag teaming public assault looked bad.
I don’t understand why this was done in public and not in a private setting

 

[beak]

You mean like our border policy?

3% of immigrants arrive illegally,so no big deal. This is one big red herring.

 

[Spindle]

Why don't you think he is a 'good' guy? As opposed to who? Which western leaders are 'better' than Putin?

And he should give a damn about us. He has every reason to see the UK as an enemy of Russia given the amount of criminals, who stole BILLIONS, from Russia to have shelter in the UK.

British built, supplied and no doubt targetted missiles have landed in Russia and killed its citizens.
British special forces have been involved in destroying Russian infastructure such as the Nord Stream 2 pipe-line.
British naval forces have sunk Russian ships.

And yet I cannot see any single case of Russian missiles hitting the UK. Or Russian special forces blowing up infastructure here in the UK. Or British ships being sunk.

We are not the good guys in this.

You make out like Putin wanted that money for his people. Take the rosy tinted specs off because Putin is a bigger animal than the other oligarchs, and I don't understand how you think his money isn't out there circulating in various schemes either.

Your memory is failing you if you can't remember him releasing a powerful biological weapon into UK streets, or shooting down an airliner.

You like him a lot, go there. You may just get arrested and imprisoned 'as a spy' to be used as a playing card in his games though.

 

[Spindle]

So the UK is sneaking around, acting as effectively terrorists? And people moan about Russia supposedly interfering in UK elections?

Maybe this is what you actually can call a limited special operation

 

[eaglesdare]

I’m abroad and been watching in on foreign news and what you have said seems widespread. Vance looked like he was on drugs. Zelensky seemed to take it all quite calmly- but Trump and Vance’s tag teaming public assault looked bad.
I don’t understand why this was done in public and not in a private setting

I suggest watching the full video for context.

Zelensky kept asking for more support and money. Trump kept saying he wanted peace, lives saved and a deescaltion from ww3. Zelensky got agitated, lost his cool and attacked Vance to which we now see the 6 min viral clip.

Anyways there's 3 options to end the war:

1. Continue an endless war, loose countless more lives and Russia gets more and more of Ukraine.
2. Ukraine surrender.
3. Take the deal and end the war.

If the deal is signed it will effectively end the war. Russia will not attack American assets.

 

[beak]

Very good news is that USA airfields throughout europe are now redundant and can be used for house building. 👍

 

[Spindle]

I suggest watching the full video for context.

Zelensky kept asking for more support and money. Trump kept saying he wanted peace, lives saved and a deescaltion from ww3. Zelensky got agitated, lost his cool and attacked Vance to which we now see the 6 min viral clip.

Anyways there's 3 options to end the war:

1. Continue an endless war, loose countless more lives and Russia gets more and more of Ukraine.
2. Ukraine surrender.
3. Take the deal and end the war.

If the deal is signed it will effectively end the war. Russia will not attack American assets.

4. Get tough with Putin, offer a deal where he doesn't get a big win because he is in the s***, by putting out air superiority, allowing Ukraine to smash up everything he has parked in occupied lands. He can begin a withdrawal or have it all wrecked. Zelensky would sign a deal for paying for all of it via resources.

 

[eaglesdare]

4. Get tough with Putin, offer a deal where he doesn't get a big win because he is in the s***, by putting out air superiority, allowing Ukraine to smash up everything he has parked in occupied lands. He can begin a withdrawal or have it all wrecked. Zelensky would sign a deal for paying for all of it via resources.

Yes we all want that.
But it's not an ideal world. It's reality. It will not happen.

 

[DanH]

4. Get tough with Putin, offer a deal where he doesn't get a big win because he is in the s***, by putting out air superiority, allowing Ukraine to smash up everything he has parked in occupied lands. He can begin a withdrawal or have it all wrecked. Zelensky would sign a deal for paying for all of it via resources.

Don’t be silly, Ukraine aren’t allowed any say in the deal.

 

[martinelliff]

Imagine if FDR had treated Churchill like this in 1940, and told him to accept a peace deal with Hitler in exchange for the Channel Islands and Kent and USA access to 50% of the North Sea oil.

 

[Spindle]

Imagine if FDR had treated Churchill like this in 1940, and told him to accept a peace deal with Hitler in exchange for the Channel Islands and Kent and USA access to 50% of the North Sea oil.

Or at Yalta decided to not invite Churchill, just humiliated him via the newspapers and bigged up old Joe, then discussed the USA taking mineral rights across Europe whilst threatening to withdraw the US forces on the western front

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I hear it's worse being invaded and laying down to take it.

We are, as has been suggested, already being invaded.

It's difficult to think about defending one's country when it is being taken from you by the very same people who want to send you to fight their wars. What are you fighting for?

Now, I don't say that I might have a slightly different attitude in the unlikely event of Russian tanks driving up the M20, but even then one would have to reflect on the futility and pointlessness of all previous conflicts.

We defeated the Germans twice and got what? A depleted Empire, a reduction in living standards followed by an invasion of foreigners.

Anyone being born now would not have a clue what it was like before 1939 so they wouldn't know any different if we had lost WW2. More over, I would not know any different being born in the '60s

Does this mean I want to become part of the Russian Empire now? Of course not.
Does it mean I want to send my son or grandsons to fight in some crazy war? Why would any sane person want to do that?

No one on earth should be keen to fight in a war. It must be avoided at all costs.

Sure, we must negotiate from a position of strength, but conventional warfare has no place in 21st Century Europe. Putin knows that, and that is why he played that card. He wanted to tell us that he can still get away with some conventional warfare because the West is no longer prepared for it.

He still knows where the line is drawn. Any incursion into a NATO country will trigger direct confrontation.

If that were ever to happen, the fools who have wrecked this country might start to have regrets.
Who will want to fight now?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Very good news is that USA airfields throughout europe are now redundant and can be used for house building. 👍

I find this very amusing.

The same sort of people who would have supported CND Corbyn now telling us we should get angry with Trump for not supplying us with military aid.

It's too good. Do continue.

 

[DanH]

We are, as has been suggested, already being invaded.

It's difficult to think about defending one's country when it is being taken from you by the very same people who want to send you to fight their wars. What are you fighting for?

Now, I don't say that I might have a slightly different attitude in the unlikely event of Russian tanks driving up the M20, but even then one would have to reflect on the futility and pointlessness of all previous conflicts.

We defeated the Germans twice and got what? A depleted Empire, a reduction in living standards followed by an invasion of foreigners.

Anyone being born now would not have a clue what it was like before 1939 so they wouldn't know any different if we had lost WW2. More over, I would not know any different being born in the '60s

Does this mean I want to become part of the Russian Empire now? Of course not.
Does it mean I want to send my son or grandsons to fight in some crazy war? Why would any sane person want to do that?

No one on earth should be keen to fight in a war. It must be avoided at all costs.

Sure, we must negotiate from a position of strength, but conventional warfare has no place in 21st Century Europe. Putin knows that, and that is why he played that card. He wanted to tell us that he can still get away with some conventional warfare because the West is no longer prepared for it.

He still knows where the line is drawn. Any incursion into a NATO country will trigger direct confrontation.

If that were ever to happen, the fools who have wrecked this country might start to have regrets.
Who will want to fight now?

Can’t believe someone can say this with a straight face in a thread about a European country which has, y’know, been and still is being, actually invaded.

 

[Glazier#1]

I’m abroad and been watching in on foreign news and what you have said seems widespread. Vance looked like he was on drugs. Zelensky seemed to take it all quite calmly- but Trump and Vance’s tag teaming public assault looked bad.
I don’t understand why this was done in public and not in a private setting

Yes, it was a set-up with Zelensky the patsy. Why was Vance in attendance? He wasn't there for Starmer's visit, was he?

For who's benefit was the trap that Zelenensky (naïve as he was) walked straight into? Putin, I'm wondering?

This was a private conversation that's been played out in front of the world; for a reason, I guess.

Whatever, It was a so wrong: a public slanging match where everyone is just shouting at each other and at one point Trump making physical contact with Zelelnsky. I know the media are blaming all this on Zelensky but I think he stupidly walked into the set - up instead of being diplomatic and keeping quiet.

 

[Glazier#1]

Can’t believe someone can say this with a straight face in a thread about a European country which has, y’know, been and still is being, actually invaded.

Quite. But you know.......