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War in Ukraine

Glazier#1 said:
Yes, it was a set-up with Zelensky the patsy. Why was Vance in attendance? He wasn't there for Starmer's visit, was he?

For who's benefit was the trap that Zelenensky (naïve as he was) walked straight into? Putin, I'm wondering?

This was a private conversation that's been played out in front of the world; for a reason, I guess.

Whatever, It was a so wrong: a public slanging match where everyone is just shouting at each other and at one point Trump making physical contact with Zelelnsky. I know the media are blaming all this on Zelensky but I think he stupidly walked into the set - up instead of being diplomatic and keeping quiet.
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Yes he was. He asked Starmer about censorship in the UK.

Instead of picking a fight Starmer responded in a cool and diplomatic manner.

You should watch the whole 40 min video and not the 6 minute clip.
 
Ukraine are in a terrible if predictable position.

However, I think signing away mineral rights to a country that won't fight for you would be nuts......Indeed, signing away your mineral rights is nuts in the first place.....They need those for themselves and to be able to sell to the top bidder.

It isn't Zelensky's fault that Biden just granted Ukraine money...even without audit.....that's Biden's (in truth more likely Blinken's).

However, he is in a blind...Trump could just as easily end up with mineral deals with Putin.

Personally I wouldn't sign any mineral deal because Trump will make a deal with Russia anyway.

Because the US won't provide air support to European troops after a deal he's signing for an American civilian presence which would leave as soon as hostilities started.....He's going to have American involvement over there anyway with Blackrock and other asset strippers.

What he should push for is a peace deal that gets him into the EU and a no man's land as in Korea.....It took Russia two years to break through the major defences in the donbas region and that's very expensive for Russia....He needs to focus on a deal that allows him or more likely his successor to build defences like that.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
From what I can gather the Europeans want to provide 'peacekeepers' after an eventual deal but only after the US promise to provide air support for them.....In other words if war breaks out again the US are shooting down Russian planes.

Obviously Trump wants to represent the end of American military adventurism.....Unless it's Israel of course.

I hear Turkey....ever the opportunist.....have offered to do the peacekeeping role in Ukraine if they are allowed into the EU.

As if we don't have enough problems.
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Speculation.

Europe operate the same aircraft and similar weapons as the USA, there's no reason why they couldn't operate air support. But, it's NATO, and Trump's failure to back it is such a massive weakness to show to Putin.

More speculation.
I wonder what photos and video Putin has on Trump following his visits to Moscow, 'entertainment' provided.
 
Spindle said:
Speculation.

Europe operate the same aircraft and similar weapons as the USA, there's no reason why they couldn't operate air support. But, it's NATO, and Trump's failure to back it is such a massive weakness to show to Putin.

More speculation.
I wonder what photos and video Putin has on Trump following his visits to Moscow, 'entertainment' provided.
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I looked at both sides argument for how this war came to be and I'm sorry....because I know you believe every word coming from government and their legacy media (fed by intelligence) but I find Russia's version to be closer to the truth.

I'll repeat....because everytime someone says this they get accused of loving Putin....that I've always been against the 2022 invasion and I regard it as a tragedy.

However, It's not as if the evidence for the position of people like me isn't out there.

So we aren't going to agree on 'Putler' and this constant boomer obsession with WW2.....like we are permanently stuck in 1938....quite ironic given who this war is between.

Of course what I'm saying is speculation.....it's a politics forum.......most of what you read on here is opinion.....However, on how this war would go I've been quite accurate.

On the air support requirement from the US....that's what I heard, but yeah, it's speculation.......I'll be amazed if the US put any military in Ukraine anyway.....those days are over.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I looked at both sides argument for how this war came to be and I'm sorry....because I know you believe every word coming from government and their legacy media (fed by intelligence) but I find Russia's version to be closer to the truth.

I'll repeat....because everytime someone says this they get accused of loving Putin....that I've always been against the 2022 invasion and I regard it as a tragedy.

However, It's not as if the evidence for the position of people like me isn't out there.

So we aren't going to agree on 'Putler' and this constant boomer obsession with WW2.....like we are permanently stuck in 1938....quite ironic given who this war is between.

Of course what I'm saying is speculation.....it's a politics forum.......most of what you read on here is opinion.....However, on how this war would go I've been quite accurate.

On the air support requirement from the US....that's what I heard, but yeah, it's speculation.......I'll be amazed if the US put any military in Ukraine anyway.....those days are over.
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It’s not loving Putin, it’s more that your sources tend to often just parrot or come quite close to the narrative that is being pumped out by the Kremlin, along with with nearly all the other ‘online right’ that have come to dominate social media over the last few years.

If you go on Twitter these days it’s awash with accounts who could basically be your clone repeating the same Russian talking points. You don’t help by often posting quite barely credible ‘commentators’ who aren’t bound by any sort of journalistic standards or laws.

When historians come back to look at this period the role that social media and those who have managed to sway (or more like buy) it in their favour and how many this has influenced will go down as the major factor in much of how the US position has changed since Trump got in.
 
DanH said:
It’s not loving Putin, it’s more that your sources tend to often just parrot or come quite close to the narrative that is being pumped out by the Kremlin, along with with nearly all the other ‘online right’ that have come to dominate social media over the last few years.

If you go on Twitter these days it’s awash with accounts who could basically be your clone repeating the same Russian talking points. You don’t help by often posting quite barely credible ‘commentators’ who aren’t bound by any sort of journalistic standards or laws.

When historians come back to look at this period the role that social media and those who have managed to sway (or more like buy) it in their favour and how many this has influenced will go down as the major factor in much of how the US position has changed since Trump got in.
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I take it then that you are a fan of censorship in social media and news of people with "right ring" views?
 
Anyways it looks like Trump may withdraw all support for Ukraine. The EU and UK now will have to dig deep into your pockets to fund the war.

May take a couple years but I'm sure Ukraine will win the war and then rebuild whatever is left.

I hope Russia don't escalate to an all out war with Europe with the seemless loss of US backing.....
 
eaglesdare said:
I take it then that you are a fan of censorship in social media and news of people with "right ring" views?
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I certainly think the fact that the richest man in the world can buy the most the powerful social media platform in the world and manipulate it so that it amplifies the talking points he wants seen by as many people as possible is a bad thing, yes.

As is the fact that he used it to buy a place in the most powerful government in the world and has the ear of the most powerful man in the world.

But he’s one of the ‘elites’ on your side so it’s alright, apparently.
 
DanH said:
I certainly think the fact that the richest man in the world can buy the most the powerful social media platform in the world and manipulate it so that it amplifies the talking points he wants seen by as many people as possible is a bad thing, yes.

As is the fact that he used it to buy a place in the most powerful government in the world and has the ear of the most powerful man in the world.

But he’s one of the ‘elites’ on your side so it’s alright, apparently.
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I'm not sure you are aware but
Elon musk was always a Democrat.
He supported Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012, Hillary Clinton in 2016, Joe Biden in 2020. He gave a lot of funding to the Democrat party and it was okay then.
 
No Wonder Zelensky is angry. He was promised a trip to the Palace with Starmer, and didn't get anywhere near Selhurst. 🙂
 
DanH said:
I certainly think the fact that the richest man in the world can buy the most the powerful social media platform in the world and manipulate it so that it amplifies the talking points he wants seen by as many people as possible is a bad thing, yes.

As is the fact that he used it to buy a place in the most powerful government in the world and has the ear of the most powerful man in the world.

But he’s one of the ‘elites’ on your side so it’s alright, apparently.
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oh do behave. You globalist Lefties have Bill Gates & Joe Biden...........so it all balances out on the swings & roundabouts.
 
eaglesdare said:
I'm not sure you are aware but
Elon musk was always a Democrat.
He supported Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012, Hillary Clinton in 2016, Joe Biden in 2020. He gave a lot of funding to the Democrat party and it was okay then.
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So what? He then realised it was easier to buy his way into the Republican Party, buy the biggest social media platform to use as a propaganda tool, and now has the power he has always craved.

Everything you post on here is found over and over and over again by thousands of accounts on Twitter, loads of which are anonymous and regurgitate the same old sh*t over and over again. It’s then lapped up by the impressionable and repeated elsewhere like it’s all true.

It’s genuinely staggering to watch unfold.
 
DanH said:
So what? He then realised it was easier to buy his way into the Republican Party, buy the biggest social media platform to use as a propaganda tool, and now has the power he has always craved.

Everything you post on here is found over and over and over again by thousands of accounts on Twitter, loads of which are anonymous and regurgitate the same old sh*t over and over again. It’s then lapped up by the impressionable and repeated elsewhere like it’s all true.

It’s genuinely staggering to watch unfold.
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You are literally describing what it was like before Elon bought X and how the lefties used it.

Anyways this thread is about Ukraine. 👍🏻
 
eaglesdare said:
You are literally describing what it was like before Elon bought X and how the lefties used it.

Anyways this thread is about Ukraine. 👍🏻
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My point is about Ukraine. Most of all what you think about it is what is regurgitated by the accounts that have all popped up (or at least now amplified way further than ever before) since Musk bought it.

It is now literally another Kremlin propaganda trumpet by proxy.
 
DanH said:
My point is about Ukraine. Most of all what you think about it is what is regurgitated by the accounts that have all popped up (or at least now amplified way further than ever before) since Musk bought it.

It is now literally another Kremlin propaganda trumpet by proxy.
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What examples can you provide to support your claim?
 
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