Sage in or out

[est1905]

To those who want Sage to remain, what exactly are they seeing that I’m perhaps missing?
Do they honestly see him putting in a defensive structure to prevent the concession of a couple of goals a game?
Do they see him organising us so that every ball towards the far post is a heart in the mouth moment as opposing players peel away to the far post unchallenged?
The errors are that basic.

I know there is an argument that it’s the same players, so what difference does a new manager make.
Well I don’t have to take you to far back to Holloway being replaced by Pulis.
We looked a totally different proposition under Pulis as a defensive structure was put in place and the whole team was forged into a proper unit knowing exactly what it was doing.

It wasn’t rocket science.
Pulis recognised, unlike Holloway, we were not capable of playing like Barcelona (as noble an aspiration as that may be) and maximised the talents of the players available to him and got them playing to their strengths in an organised set up.

I think its not about what you are potentially missing with Sage, its more to do with some having blind faith another manager (in some people's eyes any manager) could do any better with the defensive players we currently have at our disposal.
As mentioned before by others Sage had the second best defence in the French League last season so its less to do with his ability and more to do with the lack of it in our back line. I know people will say a bad tradesman always blames his tools but I completely refute that statement. Lets face it, you get as good a finish if you plastered a wall using apple crumble would you?

 

[park the bus]

Exactly this. There's been a lot of rubbish spoken about Parish trying to wing it and get by with sticky plaster and cheapos etc., as if there were millions left in the transfer kitty unspent. There isn't - we've spent it but not well. With the accounting year for UEFA's SCR ending on 31st December (see Article 93 of "UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Sustainability Regulations", in the link below, we should (if I understand things correctly, and I might not) have some headroom with the Jan 26 transfer deals dropping out of the calculations to some extent.

Yes, the 3 Bs are doing well, but like us, a couple of underwhelming transfer windows will see them nosedive if they aren't able to replace key players sold with quality.

Indeed. Franca, Nketiah, Larsen, Johnson for starters. Poor acquisitions that negate any incoming funds on the sale of the likes of Guehi, Lacroix, Eze, and Munoz. So without the necessary funds Parish is going to go for the cheapo sick note loan and free option. It's what he does.

 

[NEILLO]

We haven’t under invested. We spent £80m on players in January! What we have done is invested in players who haven’t worked out. Do people really think though Johnson and JSL were signed without Glasner having a lot of input?

The issue is with recruitment as you say but not the spend. We’ve spent pretty much all we can under current financial rules. The issue is we’ve not spent it well

To answer your question, who knows in reality ?

Glasner was effectively working his notice in that January window. Were the club willing to invest £80m on his say so given that he wouldn't be at the club past June ??

We have a ' Perfect Storm ' at the moment ;

* a new head coach that is finding life tough tactically
* two players that provide the vast majority of our goal threat largely unavailable
* a less than coherent transfer strategy - example - effectively paying £35m for Dwight bloody McNeil ! Historically when Palace spend big they spend bad.

Then we have key players getting early red cards and suspensions for stupid challenges.


Sage I feel sorry for to an extent. But results are poor, performance levels not great and he and his football are not sustainable. That's on him. And he will end of paying the price unless there's a spectacular turnaround.

Hobbs though, that's different. I don't know what his job description says, but would anybody, either us fans or impartial commentators , make a case for him doing a good job ?

 

[ASCPFC]

Most of the stats about France make me wonder what the French league is like - outside of one or two teams.

 

[est1905]

Sage has been sold down the river,notice Parish goes quiet when things start going tits up, I wouldn’t blame Sage for resigning but he seems a very honourable man.

I do think its extremely unfair Sage is taking so much blame atm when the support he needed/deserved in the summer transfer window just wasn't there. I'd also question whether someone else could do vastly better with the players he has.
I agree sometimes a change (even for someone of similar or less reputation) can give everyone a lift but I'd question if say Sean Dyche were offered the job, looked at our current defence and players available to him whether he would even be interested in taking over.

 

[ASCPFC]

I do think its extremely unfair Sage is taking so much blame atm when the support he needed/deserved in the summer transfer window just wasn't there. I'd also question whether someone else could do vastly better with the players he has.
I agree sometimes a change (even for someone of similar or less reputation) can give everyone a lift but I'd question if say Sean Dyche were offered the job, looked at our current defence and players available to him whether he would even be interested in taking over.

Sage seems like a decent bloke but he is very much looking out of his depth too. I don't think this squad is that bad. Timber needs to get fit and we're going to have to work out up front.
If Sarr is still having a sulk, that's pretty difficult.

 

[est1905]

It is a bad system. It really is. My son is a Brentford fan and I took him to watch them beat Forest yesterday. It will be of no surprise to anyone that both Brentford goals came from them playing a wide player into space behind the wing back. It’s just such an easy system to play against.

Not that easy. We won three trophies using that system and I dont seem to remember Brentford beating us too often

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Most of the stats about France make me wonder what the French league is like - outside of one or two teams.

Since 2011-12 PSG have been second X3 or won it.

 

[ASCPFC]

Since 2011-12 PSG have been second X3 or won it.

I'm presuming it's not a defensive league.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I'm presuming it's not a defensive league.

Suspect it doesn't make much difference when they roll into town.

 

[NEILLO]

I do think its extremely unfair Sage is taking so much blame atm when the support he needed/deserved in the summer transfer window just wasn't there. I'd also question whether someone else could do vastly better with the players he has.
I agree sometimes a change (even for someone of similar or less reputation) can give everyone a lift but I'd question if say Sean Dyche were offered the job, looked at our current defence and players available to him whether he would even be interested in taking over.

Dyche kept a poor Everton side up.

I don't think he's interested in a short term deal. And that's what I would offer him if I was Parish.

I think a change in set up and tactics could make a difference and make us harder to play through. I keep coming back to that word ' sustainable ' - what we are doing now isn't.

And given that the players seem unable to master Sage's methods, it's just possible that as a group they would feel more confident playing a different way ?

 

[Willo]

Dyche kept a poor Everton side up.

I don't think he's interested in a short term deal. And that's what I would offer him if I was Parish.

I think a change in set up and tactics could make a difference and make us harder to play through. I keep coming back to that word ' sustainable ' - what we are doing now isn't.

And given that the players seem unable to master Sage's methods, it's just possible that as a group they would feel more confident playing a different way ?

When Dyche 'Took up the reins' after 20 PL games Everton were in the relegation zone in 19th place.
They finished that season in 17th place. That season under him Everton recorded wins against Arsenal and Man C.
The following season Everton finished 15th.If they hadn't been deducted 8 pts they would have finished in 12th place.

 

[WJK1960]

I think its not about what you are potentially missing with Sage, its more to do with some having blind faith another manager (in some people's eyes any manager) could do any better with the defensive players we currently have at our disposal.
As mentioned before by others Sage had the second best defence in the French League last season so its less to do with his ability and more to do with the lack of it in our back line. I know people will say a bad tradesman always blames his tools but I completely refute that statement. Lets face it, you get as good a finish if you plastered a wall using apple crumble would you?

In general I agree with this. The fact is that the first team is defintely weaker than last year and none of the obvious managerial alternatives are particularly attractive. And Sage has been incredibly unlucky with injuries, suspensions and hissy fits. That said, something does need to change and if Sage is not at least willing to try a different formation with the existing players, then sadly, I feel he has to go. That wasn't my view when this poll opened but it is now. I do think we need to go 4-3-3 with the players available.

 

[Booted Eagle]

Pardew got the boot as our form went into the following season and a Cup run only glossed over very poor league form. This echoes presently and if Glasner had stayed he prob would of gone on this form. Think Sage has been thrown under the bus a little here. However it is a results game and like Pardew his lack of flexibility may well cost him Oliie was clearly out of his depth and Pulis came in. Luckily we had the likes of Jedi and Delaney to haul us through as well. Don't see characters like that in this present squad. Any new manager may well have a bigger job on their hands. Think the likelihood is we might be getting a new manager fairly soon.

 

[park the bus]

In general I agree with this. The fact is that the first team is defintely weaker than last year and none of the obvious managerial alternatives are particularly attractive. And Sage has been incredibly unlucky with injuries, suspensions and hissy fits. That said, something does need to change and if Sage is not at least willing to try a different formation with the existing players, then sadly, I feel he has to go. That wasn't my view when this poll opened but it is now. I do think we need to go 4-3-3 with the players available.

Looking at other line ups only 2 teams in the Prem play 3 at the back, us and Forest. Both are in the bottom 3. It is a fad system that had a moment of glory and was just as quickly found to be wanting. To be fully successful it needs ultra fit wing backs who can run up and down the line all day long and centre halves who can cover the gap, otherwise there are gaping wide holes for the opposition to exploit. Sage's methodology was flawed from the beginning.

 

[JHB]

Most of the stats about France make me wonder what the French league is like - outside of one or two teams.

Look to our results against Middlesbrough and Poznan for an answer. They are about the quality of much of the French league and we beat both comfortably simply by having a few better players even though we didn't play that well. Problem is as soon as Sage has come up against a half decent team we’ve been out classed and he doesn’t know what to do.

 

[JHB]

Not that easy. We won three trophies using that system and I dont seem to remember Brentford beating us too often

Point being it has been worked out. Just sit back and then play quick balls in behind the wing backs. It took a season for people to get there but once they did it was throughly found out. Look at the form of Glasner’s teams in the last 12 months especially in the league. He’s one of the worst performing premier league managers in that time.

 

[rikz]

I think its not about what you are potentially missing with Sage, its more to do with some having blind faith another manager (in some people's eyes any manager) could do any better with the defensive players we currently have at our disposal.
As mentioned before by others Sage had the second best defence in the French League last season so its less to do with his ability and more to do with the lack of it in our back line. I know people will say a bad tradesman always blames his tools but I completely refute that statement. Lets face it, you get as good a finish if you plastered a wall using apple crumble would you?

They will find playing in a back 4 with a defensive midfielder in front of them 100% easier than playing in a back 3 with 2 lightweight midfielders getting overrun in front of them and 2 full backs completely out of the game when the opposition turns the ball over quickly.

How many times this season have we seen the opposition attack us with a 3 vs 3, one defender has been dragged out wide, their other attacker is inbetween the lines, disasi doesn't know whether to come or stay, on top of worrying about the other attacker running in behind him. Any back three will find that difficult to defend.

 

[DenTyler]

If as suspected Sage goes after Liverpool. It begs the question why not try something different.

Henderson
Richard’s, lerma, disaster, mitchell
Pino Hughes wharton mcneil
kamada
Whoever is fit but it pains me to say Eddie

You can bet your life that’s how Dyche/frank/roy lines them up

 

[Username]

To answer your question, who knows in reality ?

Glasner was effectively working his notice in that January window. Were the club willing to invest £80m on his say so given that he wouldn't be at the club past June ??

We have a ' Perfect Storm ' at the moment ;

* a new head coach that is finding life tough tactically
* two players that provide the vast majority of our goal threat largely unavailable
* a less than coherent transfer strategy - example - effectively paying £35m for Dwight bloody McNeil ! Historically when Palace spend big they spend bad.

Then we have key players getting early red cards and suspensions for stupid challenges.


Sage I feel sorry for to an extent. But results are poor, performance levels not great and he and his football are not sustainable. That's on him. And he will end of paying the price unless there's a spectacular turnaround.

Hobbs though, that's different. I don't know what his job description says, but would anybody, either us fans or impartial commentators , make a case for him doing a good job ?

The McNeil thing is weird, because while I obviously wouldn’t pay that much for him I a) think he is a decent player and b) am glad thay we recognised a mistake and did something about it.

I think it’s better to lose a smaller amount of money and have a decent squad player than it is to have a £35m player doing nothing.