Palace potentially denied entry to Europa League?

[chris123]

That crossed my mind but I wanted it to be deliberately quite sh*t!

Yours is better

 

[Common Sense Club]

That's not the realpolitik, the current process is clearly far from ideal, but you play with the cards you're dealt and presently blind trusts are recognised by UEFA

...but not in France and other parts of Europe...

 

[chris123]

...but not in France and other parts of Europe...

You mean trusts not being recognised in law?

 

[Jason Smith]

Further to my previous posting (page 225 #4,487) about email correspondence I have exchanged with Stefan Borson, there has been further correspondence on this matter as follows:

In relation to correspondence being generated after the 1st of March, you made the point, “Yes, I think Crystal Palace are well aware of the CFCB’s position and have failed to discharge their view. This is the problem.” I would beg to differ; the problem really lies in the assumption that Palace are, in any way, to blame for their plight.

However, as you rightly said, “It would be helpful to see the CFCB’s reasons for their decision, but sadly this is not available publicly.” But based upon what we do know, which admittedly is not very much, where is the evidence of a breach? The assumption of a breach because the CFCB has adjudicated there has been a breach is not conclusive evidence that there was a breach.

Borson responded: “I’m pretty sure about all these points to be honest. I’m not sure about the CFCBs reasons but I don’t think there is much room for me to be wrong on the quotes above. The annoying thing is that it could take many months before we ever get the CAS reasons whichever way it goes!“

Stefan Borson is about as vague as it gets when it comes to being, “… pretty sure about all these points …” and “… I don’t think there is much room for me to be wrong …” And quite what he meant by, “… the quotes above.” I haven’t a clue. I suspect, though, he was referring to what he had previously stated, which I had quoted.

You stated, “There won't be any case vs UEFA for any negligence, etc. The best outcome is Palace get their place back. Nothing else.” Again, I beg to differ; there is everything else that is at stake here, and narrowing down the objective to reinstatement into the Europa League just maintains the status quo for a hierarchy of vested interests

The whole system is institutionally corrupt; everyone knows this, but there is also a great reluctance to see the 'rubber really hit the road' and for genuine changes to be made.

Borson made the point: “On Palace to blame, the rules do place “blame” on the applicant if they can’t satisfy the rule because it penalises them. It doesn’t matter to UEFA whether they are in control of the situation or not - that’s simply not how the rule works.”

Needless to say, I have never asserted that Palace, outside of John Textor’s business interests, are blameless. I made it quite clear to Stefan Borson that I do not believe Textor breached MCO regulations, and so it is disingenuous for him to, once again, compartmentalise the narrative, like this.

He concludes by saying, “Finally, I don’t see a credible route to prove UEFA has done anything wrong or corrupt. It may be shown to have got the decision wrong but the rules have been in place for years. CAS very rarely criticises UEFA even where it sides against them.”

Again, he shifts the narrative away from my key issue, which is: what if UEFA did nothing to investigate the possibility that Crystal Palace might be in breach of MCO regulations? He cannot really address that issue, other than to say, “I don’t understand your point re: 1st of March.”

Maybe, I should have recommended to Stefan Borson that he reads The Emperor’s New Clothes. A great book about collective denial when it comes to the truth hidden in plain sight!

 

[Uphill]

Same with me, we need to move on, in fact I have, I’ve been checking out some of the teams we could play in the conference and I’m looking forward to it

Have come to this conclusion weeks ago. Just hope the lawyer's fees have not been too onerous because our chances of success with CAS don't look good.
Pity this has dragged on so long as it is hampering the manager's plans.

Morally we are in the right but the CAS will judge on facts and, unless anyone knows better, our case for reinstatement looks fragile to say the least.

The pursuit of UEFA for justice must wait for another day when bigger, richer and more influential protagonists can combine to make our case against their mis-management and wrong doing.

 

[Eagleman13]

You mean trusts not being recognised in law?

Not European law, no. From what I've been reading on this thread, posters are basing their 'thoughts' on English Law. We are dealing with Swiss Law. As that is where UEFA/CAS are based. Europe doesn't do Blind Trusts as we know it.

 

[chris123]

Have come to this conclusion weeks ago. Just hope the lawyer's fees have not been too onerous because our chances of success with CAS don't look good.
Pity this has dragged on so long as it is hampering the manager's plans.

Morally we are in the right but the CAS will judge on facts and, unless anyone knows better, our case for reinstatement looks fragile to say the least.

The pursuit of UEFA for justice must wait for another day when bigger, richer and more influential protagonists can combine to make our case against their mis-management and wrong doing.

Surely not being a multi club ownership is there in evidence submitted by the club?

 

[viapalace]

This whole situation is going to bring London/Nottingham relations to lows not seen since the reign of King John in the late 12th century.

A Norman Ancestor of King Stern John of Trinidad

 

[Common Sense Club]

Not European law, no. From what I've been reading on this thread, posters are basing their 'thoughts' on English Law. We are dealing with Swiss Law. As that is where UEFA/CAS are based. Europe doesn't do Blind Trusts as we know it.

This is potentially relevant as Swiss Law recognises foreign trust parameters whilst not having trusts themselves. So you’d think they’d be able to accept a legal agreement between Palace shareholders as to who has majority control when the physical shareholding is different.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Justice v money in football is a ship that has long sailed.

We ought never just accept injustice and move on.

We may lose but the hypocrisy will be made very obvious and with a regulator about to be appointed now is the time to give them something to get their teeth into.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That's not the realpolitik, the current process is clearly far from ideal, but you play with the cards you're dealt and presently blind trusts are recognised by UEFA

The UEFA rules are not laws. They are little different to contractual terms and conditions.

When a rule can be shown not to achieve its stated aim it isn’t fit for purpose. In such a scenario a Judge, or in this case an arbitration panel, can rule it be struck down and ignored.

It would take skilled legal argument but I expect we have retained the best.

 

[Part Time James]

The UEFA rules are not laws. They are little different to contractual terms and conditions.

When a rule can be shown not to achieve its stated aim it isn’t fit for purpose. In such a scenario a Judge, or in this case an arbitration panel, can rule it be struck down and ignored.

It would take skilled legal argument but I expect we have retained the best.

I hope we have...

 

[dreamwaverider]

Have come to this conclusion weeks ago. Just hope the lawyer's fees have not been too onerous because our chances of success with CAS don't look good.
Pity this has dragged on so long as it is hampering the manager's plans.

Morally we are in the right but the CAS will judge on facts and, unless anyone knows better, our case for reinstatement looks fragile to say the least.

The pursuit of UEFA for justice must wait for another day when bigger, richer and more influential protagonists can combine to make our case against their mis-management and wrong doing.

Agree with everything you say, but when does a lawyer ever tell their prospective client they have little or no chance, when they can see a long journey through the mire. It may be cynical but it is how they can make so much money.

 

[dreamwaverider]

Surely the biggest issue now is one of time. Isn't the first Europa game towards the end of August. If so, a decision will have to be reached sooner rather than later leaving us no time to appeal. We will be fighting a losing battle against time. UEFA have already shown they are never in a hurry.
Far better now to focus on winning the Conference and getting our squad ready accordingly for the season ahead. Time is not on our side.

 

[chris123]

The UEFA rules are not laws. They are little different to contractual terms and conditions.

When a rule can be shown not to achieve its stated aim it isn’t fit for purpose. In such a scenario a Judge, or in this case an arbitration panel, can rule it be struck down and ignored.

It would take skilled legal argument but I expect we have retained the best.

They apply if you want to play in their competitions

 

[Teddy Eagle]

We ought never just accept injustice and move on.

We may lose but the hypocrisy will be made very obvious and with a regulator about to be appointed now is the time to give them something to get their teeth into.

I'd rather we spend our money on players than on lawyers.

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

 

[est1905]

Have come to this conclusion weeks ago. Just hope the lawyer's fees have not been too onerous because our chances of success with CAS don't look good.
Pity this has dragged on so long as it is hampering the manager's plans.

Morally we are in the right but the CAS will judge on facts and, unless anyone knows better, our case for reinstatement looks fragile to say the least.

The pursuit of UEFA for justice must wait for another day when bigger, richer and more influential protagonists can combine to make our case against their mis-management and wrong doing.

I just dont understand why you keep saying that. 1. you dont have any more information than any of the rest of us. 2. Palace would not take UEFA on unless they thought they had a very good case. 3. Palace's expensive lawyers would not want the case if they thought they were going to lose. Its not just about money for lawyers of that standing. Its reputation. They simply wouldn't take it on if they believed we had no hope. Further more, they'd strongly advise Parish, Johnson, Blitzer & Harris not to challenge the decision at all.
I'm not saying we'll definitely win but we have a far better chance than you're making out or it wouldn't be happening.

 

[est1905]

'I'm not bashing Parish but......' And then spends 10 minutes bashing Parish.
At least he didn't take us into Administration Mr Perfect

 

[mtp1958]

Further to my previous posting (page 225 #4,487) about email correspondence I have exchanged with Stefan Borson, there has been further correspondence on this matter as follows:

In relation to correspondence being generated after the 1st of March, you made the point, “Yes, I think Crystal Palace are well aware of the CFCB’s position and have failed to discharge their view. This is the problem.” I would beg to differ; the problem really lies in the assumption that Palace are, in any way, to blame for their plight.

However, as you rightly said, “It would be helpful to see the CFCB’s reasons for their decision, but sadly this is not available publicly.” But based upon what we do know, which admittedly is not very much, where is the evidence of a breach? The assumption of a breach because the CFCB has adjudicated there has been a breach is not conclusive evidence that there was a breach.

Borson responded: “I’m pretty sure about all these points to be honest. I’m not sure about the CFCBs reasons but I don’t think there is much room for me to be wrong on the quotes above. The annoying thing is that it could take many months before we ever get the CAS reasons whichever way it goes!“

Stefan Borson is about as vague as it gets when it comes to being, “… pretty sure about all these points …” and “… I don’t think there is much room for me to be wrong …” And quite what he meant by, “… the quotes above.” I haven’t a clue. I suspect, though, he was referring to what he had previously stated, which I had quoted.

You stated, “There won't be any case vs UEFA for any negligence, etc. The best outcome is Palace get their place back. Nothing else.” Again, I beg to differ; there is everything else that is at stake here, and narrowing down the objective to reinstatement into the Europa League just maintains the status quo for a hierarchy of vested interests

The whole system is institutionally corrupt; everyone knows this, but there is also a great reluctance to see the 'rubber really hit the road' and for genuine changes to be made.

Borson made the point: “On Palace to blame, the rules do place “blame” on the applicant if they can’t satisfy the rule because it penalises them. It doesn’t matter to UEFA whether they are in control of the situation or not - that’s simply not how the rule works.”

Needless to say, I have never asserted that Palace, outside of John Textor’s business interests, are blameless. I made it quite clear to Stefan Borson that I do not believe Textor breached MCO regulations, and so it is disingenuous for him to, once again, compartmentalise the narrative, like this.

He concludes by saying, “Finally, I don’t see a credible route to prove UEFA has done anything wrong or corrupt. It may be shown to have got the decision wrong but the rules have been in place for years. CAS very rarely criticises UEFA even where it sides against them.”

Again, he shifts the narrative away from my key issue, which is: what if UEFA did nothing to investigate the possibility that Crystal Palace might be in breach of MCO regulations? He cannot really address that issue, other than to say, “I don’t understand your point re: 1st of March.”

Maybe, I should have recommended to Stefan Borson that he reads The Emperor’s New Clothes. A great book about collective denial when it comes to the truth hidden in plain sight!

you have used far to many big words , stop trying to take Willos throne 🤣🤣🤣