Israel v Hamas

[Eagleman13]

It's human nature to want to pigeonhole people and ideas because it makes things easier. Just as you have done here. What you do here is link someone to a political ideology which you object to, and thus ignore/disregard the specific information presented. Now there are questions I have have with the piece Jones presents. There are some gaps in the information, for sure. But evidence is provided to support the assertions made. Communist or not, facts don't care for your prejudices.

Ironically, one of the main points in Jones' piece is that he objectively points out the misframing of the violent scenes by the BBC.

I suspect you are missing the fact that objectively, the State of Israel is actively committing what is defined, internationally, as a genocide and that, objectively, a portion of its citizens are fascists and revelling in the murder and displacement of a significant proportion of another people based on their proximity to land they wish to colonise and now, more generally (as evidenced from the chants), based on ethnicity.

Jones' supposed communism, has, objectively nothing to do with the facts as presented. That is a failing of your own objectiveness - if indeed that is something you are trying to be.

-------------------------------------



I find you position entirely unstable and incongruent as well as ambiguous without an ounce of objectivity that can be applied.

Is it your argument that because some Jews were in the UK, before WW2 it's OK for them to be here and more of them may migrate or seek asylum etc. But because fewer Muslims were in the UK, and maybe more Jews were here at this arbitrary time, then it's not ok.

So how do you feel about Hindus and Muslims from India and Pakistan coming to the country, or is there historical animosity to one another not a 'blood feud' as you put it? What defines a 'blood feud'?

This is all very unconvincing and smacks of bigotry.

Considering the UK's complicity in creating the issues people flee from. Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Myanmar, Iraq... Palestine. You say don't bring your s*** here after the UK's meddling is often a significant part of why these people are being displaced or persecuted.

You proclaim the UK is innocent as if it has done nothing. Never broken international law. Which is objectively false. It is just hypocrisy to criticise other countries for breaking international law, when the UK has also... bad argument.

Europe is for Europeans... well maybe America is for the Native population, or Palestine is for the Palestinians not a Zionist colonial project.

Yeah, your argument here is just lazy, moronic bogitry.
---------------------------




Correct.


View attachment 359


Here is some poll data. I cannot vouch for its reliability, but it does, anecdotally match with what I've heard reported. Happy to be corrected on if this is reasonable.

But based on this information, the vast majority of Israelis were happy with the degree of bombing and destruction as of April 2024. There have been escalations and expansion of violence to Lebanon of course now, but I'd say, Israel pretty much overwhelmingly support the genocide.



You elect leaders who spend taxes to support the Israeli regime's genocide. Displacing millions, some of whom you would say bring their 'blood feud' to the UK as refugees.

It's not a tenuous link. It's quite clear. It's quite obvious.

-------


Zionists by their updated words. Of course, to mirror your observation, Jews existed in reasonable numbers in the region for a long time. Hamas identify the Zionist project which is one dependent on the displacement and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population for its success.

---------


91.4% Muslim in the mid-east, 74.5% Christians in Europe by the references below. So both wrong, who gives a s***. The vast majorities in both cases are as described.

Europe

Europe is the only region projected to see a decline in its total population between 2010 and 2050. Although Christians will continue to be the largest

www.pewresearch.org

Region: Middle East-North Africa

The Muslim population in the Middle East-North Africa region is expected to grow by more than a third (37%) in the next 20 years. It is projected to grow

www.pewresearch.org

Why do you care about building churches in 100% muslim countries?

-----------------




If your elected government is funding genocide with your country's resources, then yeah... it has something to do with you.



How many Palestinian refugees has Israel taken in?





Ok, so you accept Britain is helping, but you remove yourself from any responsibility for Britains actions. It's understandable to feel powerless and to feel like nothing you can do would make any difference. But to say the actions of the British government have have nothing to do with you in what is supposed to be a representative democracy where we can vote for our government... now who's on drugs?

Helping genocide a little bit is ok then. Gotcha. Maybe lower the drug intake.




Not familiar with 'blank slate'. Can you elaborate?

Where i'd disagree is that the 'right' is not at all shy of trying to 'fix' human nature. Religion is all about changing human nature. Communism at least would attempt to fix people of their desire for religion.

So yeah, I'd argue that it's human nature to try 'fix' the behaviour of others. It's not a left vs right thing in the slightest.

I'd perhaps reframe the argument from 'fix' to 'educate'. Which is of course, a fundamental necessity for the continuation of society.

Otherwise you imply we're all just slave to our impulses. It most certainly can be argued for some.




I understand the appeal of isolationism. It is just ideology. Of course, if the world were a more harmonious place, then the dream of isolation, free from the dramas of geopolitical games and tribal feuds over land and resources would be that much more feasible.

The reality is upping your medication might be the only way to get closer to that.

God almighty, you ought to be a politician & you can bore the pants off people to your hearts content. Feel sorry for those around you. Have a nice day. 🫡

 

[Badadmcmad]

Thank God I thought you were going to say I was the perfect case study of a pretentious obnoxious individual! We dont want any of those on here, do we?
I would have thought the WhatsApp group “ hunt Jews” may have been a clue but there we go.
Is your evidence any more reliable than that you are trying to dismiss? I quote “IF the reports are accurate” so you are not prepared to accept those as fact but you are prepared to accept the video ( and Owen Jones’s version) as fact. IF it is true, of course I don’t condone it, I dislike violence of any kind, as I hate any hateful chanting.
People being surrounded and asked for their passports and if they are Jewish. Obviously you will not accept this account given the outlet but hey Ho,

Jewish Londoner hospitalised after saving Israeli in Amsterdam - Jewish News

EXCLUSIVE: Aaron from Hendon was surrounded by a violent gang of 10 after intervening after a football match between Maccabi Tel Aviv and AFC Ajax.

www.jewishnews.co.uk

Only four anti-Israel Amsterdam ‘pogrom’ attackers remain in custody after 63 detained

There were 63 people detained following the Thursday night horror when local anti-Israel gangs targeted Maccabi Tel Aviv soccer fans.

nypost.com

Looks like this MAY have been premeditated.
By the way there does not seem to be any breakdown of those arrested although it seems on,y 4 still in custody. Hope this helps

Your words, not mine.

Help me out further would you. Despite all the evidence shown already of the hundreds chanting racist and genocidal chants as well as the vandalism and the Israeli gang attack on the Dutch individual, I'm struggling to find reports of any Israeli's being arrested. Maybe the sources you frequent might have a record of whether there were any?

Or could it be the case that no Israeli arrests were made or deemed newsworthy?

 

[Badadmcmad]

Sure, everyone has a right to exist. Question is where. If a gypsy or refugee camp set up say on your close or on the nearest piece of grass outside your home, you might think otherwise, even if it’s in secret behind closed doors.

‘Getting past petty tribalism’ as you put it sounds like one of those leftie frustrations of something towards countries and borders. War and conflict is never going to stop. Why would it? It’s unfortunately part of human nature. Maybe accepting that and managing things better before they escalate might improve situations.

This is probably why gypsies have been given land to settle on by councils in order to manage things before they escalate.

In 1967 there was international agreement on borders in the region. Israel refused. To your analogy, it's akin to the gyspies moving onto your front yard, more and more were shipped in from abroad, they then moved into your house.

The biggest problem is not so much war or conflict. The problem is resolving the desires that lead to or necessitate war and conflict.

The establishment of the EU broadly has ended war and conflict in Europe until recently. It achieved that through greater cooperation, collaboration and negotiation (management if you will). The wars and conflicts during that time are very much, nay entirely executed by those of right wing nationalist persuasion.

 

[Badadmcmad]

God almighty, you ought to be a politician & you can bore the pants off people to your hearts content. Feel sorry for those around you. Have a nice day. 🫡

Not here for your entertainment.

 

[Badadmcmad]

Ok, it's good to know we have a spokesman for proscribed terrorist group Hamas on the boards. That's fine, I'm all for free speech.

I've read through the 2017 document – which Hamas (Mahmoud al-Zahar) says does not replace its original charter – is a crap PR attempt to make the terrorists not appear like the evil Nazi scum that they are.

It says it is willing to accept a territorial compromise but still does not recognises Israel's right to exist anywhere on the land and continues to advocate for violence against Israel.

Define terrorism.

Explain what being proscibed means.

Answer my previous questions.

 

[Spiderman]

Your words, not mine.

Help me out further would you. Despite all the evidence shown already of the hundreds chanting racist and genocidal chants as well as the vandalism and the Israeli gang attack on the Dutch individual, I'm struggling to find reports of any Israeli's being arrested. Maybe the sources you frequent might have a record of whether there were any?

Or could it be the case that no Israeli arrests were made or deemed newsworthy?

Let me try and help you out here, read the last paragraph of my post regarding arrests. Bit lazy of you not reading my post. Will you admit that Israelis were sought out and attacked? Do you consider that to be justified, even if those attacked were innocent ( if you consider any Israeli innocent).
How lazy of me, forgot the link. Here we are

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewish/comments/1gm8mcn/man_in_amsterdam_asked_to_provide_his_passport_to

.
That is Arabic, by the way, interspersed with English 🤔

 

[Spiderman]

Not here for your entertainment.

Why are you here then? To preach the gospel according to St Badadmcmad? Or to just bore people into submission?

 

[Eagleman13]

Not here for your entertainment.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

This is probably why gypsies have been given land to settle on by councils in order to manage things before they escalate.

In 1967 there was international agreement on borders in the region. Israel refused. To your analogy, it's akin to the gyspies moving onto your front yard, more and more were shipped in from abroad, they then moved into your house.

The biggest problem is not so much war or conflict. The problem is resolving the desires that lead to or necessitate war and conflict.

The establishment of the EU broadly has ended war and conflict in Europe until recently. It achieved that through greater cooperation, collaboration and negotiation (management if you will). The wars and conflicts during that time are very much, nay entirely executed by those of right wing nationalist persuasion.

Gypsies have no claim to land in your or my street. It isn’t really comparable to Israel.

Yeah I know, how terrible you don’t want your country to be told what to do, in the name of…peace and peaceful immigration. It’s a real wonder why there’s a rise in far right politics in Europe and calls for us to leave the ECHR.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's human nature to want to pigeonhole people and ideas because it makes things easier. Just as you have done here. What you do here is link someone to a political ideology which you object to, and thus ignore/disregard the specific information presented. Now there are questions I have have with the piece Jones presents. There are some gaps in the information, for sure. But evidence is provided to support the assertions made. Communist or not, facts don't care for your prejudices.

Ironically, one of the main points in Jones' piece is that he objectively points out the misframing of the violent scenes by the BBC.

I suspect you are missing the fact that objectively, the State of Israel is actively committing what is defined, internationally, as a genocide and that, objectively, a portion of its citizens are fascists and revelling in the murder and displacement of a significant proportion of another people based on their proximity to land they wish to colonise and now, more generally (as evidenced from the chants), based on ethnicity.

Jones' supposed communism, has, objectively nothing to do with the facts as presented. That is a failing of your own objectiveness - if indeed that is something you are trying to be.

-------------------------------------

You criticise me for 'pigeonholing' Jones as a communist and then a couple of paragraphs later call a proportion of Israel 'fascists'. I personally have no issues with you using labels, however I suggest that it's a double standard if you criticise me for it when you do the same yourself.

I haven't dealt with Jones's claims on the incident in question as I know how selective he has been in the past when supporting his contentions. However, I do regard him as genuine in his beliefs, so to that extent I doubt he is lying, however his worldview is set to such a fashion that he will heighten or diminish facts dependent upon his worldview. For example, which video clips he uses, which reports he chooses to believe or discount.......'His Truth' based upon his biases so to speak.

How closely that would resemble what actually occurs might be something else. So I don't personally regard him as objective enough to take as a reliable source on this topic. If you choose to that's for you.

I find you position entirely unstable and incongruent as well as ambiguous without an ounce of objectivity that can be applied.

You can find my opinion to be whatever you like. It makes no difference to me. While truth can still be spoken in this country I'll say it how I see it.

Is it your argument that because some Jews were in the UK, before WW2 it's OK for them to be here and more of them may migrate or seek asylum etc. But because fewer Muslims were in the UK, and maybe more Jews were here at this arbitrary time, then it's not ok.

So how do you feel about Hindus and Muslims from India and Pakistan coming to the country, or is there historical animosity to one another not a 'blood feud' as you put it? What defines a 'blood feud'?

This is all very unconvincing and smacks of bigotry.

Again, I don't care what label you want to put on my opinion.

There weren't 'some Jews' here before WW2. I referred to the Normans, that's nearly a thousand years before WW2 and Jews were actually first here and in Europe generally (especially eastern) hundreds of years before after their expulsion by the Romans.

So they have been part of European life long before the modern Britain was even conceived. Muslims not only weren't here in any significant numbers they never even had a single mosque until Victorian times....and that was from European converts. So an introduction of people's who hold ethnic resentments against Jews because of foreign conflicts is obviously a high negative for cohesion in this country.

I am not a fan of immigration into this country of people's who aren't anglophiles and are here for economic reasons. You ask me about Hindus and Muslims? These are people who in most cases should be living in their homelands not here. However, of the two Hindus seem far better at integrating into European culture than Muslims do.....there are exceptions of course but that's my observation.

I don't want anyone here bringing their ethnic baggage looking to alter the British way of life. Unfortunately this has happened and it's 'not ok' to use your same language. If I went to Pakistan and attempted the same I would expect the exact same attitude from them, and they would be correct.

Considering the UK's complicity in creating the issues people flee from. Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Myanmar, Iraq... Palestine. You say don't bring your s*** here after the UK's meddling is often a significant part of why these people are being displaced or persecuted.

You proclaim the UK is innocent as if it has done nothing. Never broken international law. Which is objectively false. It is just hypocrisy to criticise other countries for breaking international law, when the UK has also... bad argument.

Europe is for Europeans... well maybe America is for the Native population, or Palestine is for the Palestinians not a Zionist colonial project.

Yeah, your argument here is just lazy, moronic bogitry.
---------------------------

No one fleeing from these countries needs to come to Britain: they choose to....and unfortunately at the moment have been allowed to. It is evident from your comments on our history that you are obviously the type of person carrying resentments from your interpretation of the past.

I would say find and live in a country whose history you respect.

Correct.


View attachment 359


Here is some poll data. I cannot vouch for its reliability, but it does, anecdotally match with what I've heard reported. Happy to be corrected on if this is reasonable.

But based on this information, the vast majority of Israelis were happy with the degree of bombing and destruction as of April 2024. There have been escalations and expansion of violence to Lebanon of course now, but I'd say, Israel pretty much overwhelmingly support the genocide.

I would suspect that these polls are probably an accurate reflection of Israeli opinion.

You elect leaders who spend taxes to support the Israeli regime's genocide. Displacing millions, some of whom you would say bring their 'blood feud' to the UK as refugees.

It's not a tenuous link. It's quite clear. It's quite obvious.

-------

The media sell narratives to populations and people vote who they vote for. Many people will vote for whom they consider the least worse option for them personally. I find it quaint that you think foreign conflicts would play a significant factor in who most people vote for.

I don't think it's right to blame people in England for what's going on in Palestine/Israel. I can understand you disagreeing with the position of the government, however their position will always be more influenced by financial concerns.

Certainly many are and have been displaced. However, as I stated earlier, they are the responsibility of Arab nations.

Zionists by their updated words. Of course, to mirror your observation, Jews existed in reasonable numbers in the region for a long time. Hamas identify the Zionist project which is one dependent on the displacement and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population for its success.

---------

Zionism is Jewish nationalism.....Obviously their number one concern is the continued survival of the Jewish state. For it to stay Jewish displacement of those with claims to the area are a reality. I have already stated how Islamic countries did this to both Christians and Jews and that what you are complaining about amounts to the same....but done to Muslims.

Is any of it fair?....No. Is there injustice here? Yes.

Is it any of my business? No.

I can have an opinion but these are foreign countries and nothing to do with Britain as such.

91.4% Muslim in the mid-east, 74.5% Christians in Europe by the references below. So both wrong, who gives a s***. The vast majorities in both cases are as described.

Europe

Europe is the only region projected to see a decline in its total population between 2010 and 2050. Although Christians will continue to be the largest

www.pewresearch.org

Region: Middle East-North Africa

The Muslim population in the Middle East-North Africa region is expected to grow by more than a third (37%) in the next 20 years. It is projected to grow

www.pewresearch.org

Why do you care about building churches in 100% muslim countries?

-----------------

No, Europe is not three quarters Christian, I'd say it's more thirty percent in Britain.....maybe higher in the med and eastern Europe. Seventy five percent? 1950s perhaps not now. If you are actually serious and interested in the truth then go look at Church attendance data and compare it to population size and then compare that to mosque attendance data and then compare it to the Islamic population.

'Why do you care about building churches in 100% muslim countries?' You seem to have missed my point. I stated that Muslims seem to demand tolerance in Europe yet not provide tolerance within their own countries....It's a double standard. These countries are '100 percent' Islamic exactly because they have no tolerance for other religions.

If your elected government is funding genocide with your country's resources, then yeah... it has something to do with you.

No, I don't think that's a fair summary. People have different priorities, just like you have. They may vote Labour or Tory but that doesn't mean they agree with every position that party has. Some will, some won't.

How many Palestinian refugees has Israel taken in?

Why should Israel take in Muslims they are trying to force out? What's the point of having a Jewish state if you're going to import large numbers of Muslims into it?

Ok, so you accept Britain is helping, but you remove yourself from any responsibility for Britains actions. It's understandable to feel powerless and to feel like nothing you can do would make any difference. But to say the actions of the British government have have nothing to do with you in what is supposed to be a representative democracy where we can vote for our government... now who's on drugs?

I have an opinion on what's going on over there but I state again, I'm English, these are events that are for that region or people related to it. Why should I care more about what happens in Palestine than say some Hindu living in India should care? You have already demonstrated resentment towards my country and then you expect me to care?

If you care so much then go and work for an aid agency over there. I would respect that, however this idea that I should vote for the ethnic biases within foreign countries is unrealistic reasoning.

Helping genocide a little bit is ok then. Gotcha. Maybe lower the drug intake.

These are your words, you are entitled to your opinion but it's not how I would frame it.

Not familiar with 'blank slate'. Can you elaborate?

Well, whole books are written on the 'blank slate' so that's a lot to ask of me. However, in short the 'blank slate' refers to the idea that people are born equal in abilities and can achieve anything based purely on what inputs they receive. So, the idea that you can create versions of Einstein if you could control what happened to them......there is more to it but that's a reductive explanation

Where i'd disagree is that the 'right' is not at all shy of trying to 'fix' human nature. Religion is all about changing human nature. Communism at least would attempt to fix people of their desire for religion.

Are you suggesting religion is right wing? Mmmm....If so I would suggest that's rather a bias there.

If you re-read what I said I stated that human nature can only be directed to a limited degree. Religion does this.....sometimes it can be negative for people, most of the time it helps by providing context to their lives.

But I would reject the idea that religion should be seen as inherently 'right wing'. Are there aspects of social conservativism to religions? Yes, but it doesn't come as a political philosophy and plenty of religious people have voted for left wing parties since they had the option.

So yeah, I'd argue that it's human nature to try 'fix' the behaviour of others. It's not a left vs right thing in the slightest.

I'd perhaps reframe the argument from 'fix' to 'educate'. Which is of course, a fundamental necessity for the continuation of society.

Otherwise you imply we're all just slave to our impulses. It most certainly can be argued for some.

What is more the hub of the argument is the difference in approach between social conservatives and social liberals on this question....the attitudes are quite different and like I say, could and has filled many books.

I understand the appeal of isolationism. It is just ideology. Of course, if the world were a more harmonious place, then the dream of isolation, free from the dramas of geopolitical games and tribal feuds over land and resources would be that much more feasible.

The reality is upping your medication might be the only way to get closer to that.

Ha....Well, Trump is much more an isolationist in nature than most and isolationism is much more common in the new right generally who are growing all over Europe.....I think I have cause for some optimism.

 

[ASCPFC]

You criticise me for 'pigeonholing' Jones as a communist and then a couple of paragraphs later call a proportion of Israel 'fascists'. I personally have no issues with you using labels, however I suggest that it's a double standard if you criticise me for it when you do the same yourself.

I haven't dealt with Jones's claims on the incident in question as I know how selective he has been in the past when supporting his contentions. However, I do regard him as genuine in his beliefs, so to that extent I doubt he is lying, however his worldview is set to such a fashion that he will highten or diminish facts dependent upon his worldview. For example, which video clips he uses, which reports he chooses to believe or discount.......'His Truth' based upon his biases so to speak.

How closely that would resemble what actually occurs might be something else. So I don't personally regard him as objective enough to take as a reliable source on this topic. If you choose to that's for you.




You can find my opinion to be whatever you like. It makes no difference to me. While truth can still be spoken in this country I'll say it how I see it.



Again, I don't care what label you want to put on my opinion.

There weren't 'some Jews' here before WW2. I referred to the Normans, that's nearly a thousand years before WW2 and Jews were actually first here and in Europe generally (especially eastern) hundreds of years before after their expulsion by the Romans.

So they have been part of European life long before the modern Britain was even conceived. Muslims not only weren't here in any significant numbers they never even had a single mosque until Victorian times....and that was from European converts. So an introduction of people's who hold ethnic resentments against Jews because of foreign conflicts is obviously a high negative for cohesion in this country.

I am not a fan of immigration into this country of people's who aren't anglophiles and are here for economic reasons. You ask me about Hindus and Muslims? These are people who in most cases should be living in their homelands not here. However, of the two Hindus seem far better at integrating into European culture than Muslims do.....there are exceptions of course but that's my observation.

I don't want anyone here bringing their ethnic baggage looking to alter the British way of life. Unfortunately this has happened and it's 'not ok' to use your same language. If I went to Pakistan and attempted the same I would expect the exact same attitude from them, and they would be correct.



No one fleeing from these countries needs to come to Britain: they choose to....and unfortunately at the moment have been allowed to. It is evident from your comments on our history that you are obviously the type of person carrying resentments from your interpretation of the past.

I would say find and live in a country whose history you respect.



I would suspect that these polls are probably an accurate reflection of Israeli opinion.



The media sell narratives to populations and people vote who they vote for. Many people will vote for whom they consider the least worse option for them personally. I find it quaint that you think foreign conflicts would play a significant factor in who most people vote for.

I don't think it's right to blame people in England for what's going on in Palestine/Israel. I can understand you disagreeing with the position of the government, however their position will always be more influenced by financial concerns.

Certainly many are and have been displaced. However, as I stated earlier, they are the responsibility of Arab nations.



Zionism is Jewish nationalism.....Obviously their number one concern is the continued survival of the Jewish state. For it to stay Jewish displacement of those with claims to the area are a reality. I have already stated how Islamic countries did this to both Christians and Jews and that what you are complaining about amounts to the same....but done to Muslims.

Is any of it fair?....No. Is there injustice here? Yes.

Is it any of my business? No.

I can have an opinion but these are foreign countries and nothing to do with Britain as such.




No, Europe is not three quarters Christian, I'd say it's more thirty percent in Britain.....maybe higher in the med and eastern Europe. Seventy five percent? 1950s perhaps not now. If you are actually serious and interested in the truth then go look at Church attendance data and compare it to population size and then compare that to mosque attendance data and then compare it to the Islamic population.

'Why do you care about building churches in 100% muslim countries?' You seem to have missed my point. I stated that Muslims seem to demand tolerance in Europe yet not provide tolerance within their own countries....It's a double standard. These countries are '100 percent' Islamic exactly because they have no tolerance for other religions.



No, I don't think that's a fair summary. People have different priorities, just like you have. They may vote Labour or Tory but that doesn't mean they agree with every position that party has. Some will, some won't.

Why should Israel take in Muslims they are trying to force out? What's the point of having a Jewish state if you're going to import large numbers of Muslims into it?


I have an opinion on what's going on over there but I state again, I'm English, these are events that are for that region or people related to it. Why should I care more about what happens in Palestine than say some Hindu living in India should care? You have already demonstrated resentment towards my country and then you expect me to care?

If you care so much then go and work for an aid agency over there. I would respect that, however this idea that I should vote for the ethnic biases within foreign countries is unrealistic reasoning.



These are your words, you are entitled to your opinion but it's not how I would frame it.



Well, whole books are written on the 'blank slate' so that's a lot to ask of me. However, in short the 'blank slate' refers to the idea that people are born equal in abilities and can achieve anything based purely on what inputs they receive. So, the idea that you can create versions of Einstein if you could control what happened to them......there is more to it but that's a reductive explanation



Are you suggesting religion is right wing? Mmmm....If so I would suggest that's rather a bias there.

If you re-read what I said I stated that human nature can only be directed to a limited degree. Religion does this.....sometimes it can be negative for people, most of the time it helps by providing context to their lives.

But I would reject the idea that religion should be seen as inherently 'right wing'. Are there aspects of social conservativism to religions? Yes, but it doesn't come as a political philosophy and plenty of religious people have voted for left wing parties since they had the option.


What is more the hub of the argument is the difference in approach between social conservatives and social liberals on this question....the attitudes are quite different and like I say, could and has filled many books.



Ha....Well, Trump is much more an isolationist in nature than most and isolationism is much more common in the new right generally who are growing all over Europe.....I think I have cause for some optimism.

You took the words right out of my mouth 😉

 

[Penge Eagle]

Define terrorism.

Explain what being proscibed means.

Answer my previous questions.

I know it's a good way to deflect responding to the posts where I've debunked you, but I'm not interested in playing general knowledge quizzes.

You are an odious anti-Semite who supports terrorist group Hamas and believes the state of Israel should not exist. That is clear for everyone to read. I find it incredible that so many Nazis exist in Britain today.

 

[cryrst]

Not here for your entertainment.

It isn’t obvious !!!

 

[HKOwen]

I know it's a good way to deflect responding to the posts where I've debunked you, but I'm not interested in playing general knowledge quizzes.

You are an odious anti-Semite who supports terrorist group Hamas and believes the state of Israel should not exist. That is clear for everyone to read. I find it incredible that so many Nazis exist in Britain today.

The word is jew-hater, anti semite too polite

 

[HKOwen]

Hopefully Trump can pick up the Abraham accords and get a foot hard on the Iranian government neck. Biden giving them money has caused untold misery and death.

 

[Spiderman]

Your words, not mine.

Help me out further would you. Despite all the evidence shown already of the hundreds chanting racist and genocidal chants as well as the vandalism and the Israeli gang attack on the Dutch individual, I'm struggling to find reports of any Israeli's being arrested. Maybe the sources you frequent might have a record of whether there were any?

Or could it be the case that no Israeli arrests were made or deemed newsworthy?

Help me out here, when are Maccabi Tel Aviv playing in Brussels? Or perhaps you can provide another diatribe denying this as a Jew Hunt

Several people arrested in Antwerp following calls for 'Jew hunt'

Belgium's anti-terror body pointed to copycat behaviour, as authorities believe last week's violence in Amsterdam triggered the call for attacks in Antwerp.

www.brusselstimes.com

 

[Penge Eagle]

Whose side are you on?

Harrowing video shows Hamas torturing innocent Palestinians

The horrifying incidents appear to have been filmed inadvertently by CCTV cameras inside a Hamas military base in northern Gaza raided by Israeli troops this year

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Badadmcmad]

Gypsies have no claim to land in your or my street. It isn’t really comparable to Israel.

Yeah I know, how terrible you don’t want your country to be told what to do, in the name of…peace and peaceful immigration. It’s a real wonder why there’s a rise in far right politics in Europe and calls for us to leave the ECHR.

Gypsies were your analogy... and now your saying its a bad analogy... lets not continue on that path.

You need to watch the video regarding why the US supports Israel which I linked originally. It will provide essential context that you are missing as to the recognition of Israel by the US. Pay attention to what President Truman says about encouraging immigration of Jews to the region.

It would be helpful to present the case for Israel's claim to the land in light of your criticism of the gypsy analogy along that line. Palesinian's claim (and any other people's claim - Christians, Bedouin etc) should also be consider. That would be a worthwhile discussion.

Not really sure about what you are saying in the second paragraph. Is it relevant to the subject of Palestine/Israel? If you could clarify how its relevant.

 

[Badadmcmad]

You criticise me for 'pigeonholing' Jones as a communist and then a couple of paragraphs later call a proportion of Israel 'fascists'. I personally have no issues with you using labels, however I suggest that it's a double standard if you criticise me for it when you do the same yourself.

Disagree. It's not the same thing, it's not a double standard. If you refer to the proportion of Israelis who are fascists, you are referring to that group.

What you have done is taken someone who has explicitly identified his political ideology as democratic socialist but you have gone to to the effort to call him a communist.

Two different things.

I haven't dealt with Jones's claims on the incident in question as I know how selective he has been in the past when supporting his contentions. However, I do regard him as genuine in his beliefs, so to that extent I doubt he is lying, however his worldview is set to such a fashion that he will heighten or diminish facts dependent upon his worldview. For example, which video clips he uses, which reports he chooses to believe or discount.......'His Truth' based upon his biases so to speak.

Yeah, you've played the man not the ball, as I said.

Do you have any other supportive of contradictory evidence of events?

Any relevant contribution or assessment to share that is relevant to what happened or Israel/Palestine conflict related to the evidence presented? Others have presented evidence and reports.


The rest of the discussion is all really going far off topic and while insightful into your outlook, are distractions.

As an aside, you said Ash Sarkar let her mask slip..? On national TV she quite openly and strongly told Piers she's 'a communist, you idiot'. Not really any mask there.

 

[Badadmcmad]

I know it's a good way to deflect responding to the posts where I've debunked you, but I'm not interested in playing general knowledge quizzes.

You are an odious anti-Semite who supports terrorist group Hamas and believes the state of Israel should not exist. That is clear for everyone to read. I find it incredible that so many Nazis exist in Britain today.

What was the term you used? 'Cop out'. Yup.

What was it I said about lazy morons?