Israel v Hamas

[Badadmcmad]

Any comment on whether there were/are groups advocating a Jew Hunt? That question seems to have passed you by

I questioned the headline which claimed a whatsapp message calling for a 'Jew Hunt'. You didn't provide the article with the evidence of such a whatsapp. I have since seen other reports of groups looking for Maccabi supporters who had been vandalising and assaulting people. So in terms of the whatsapp group, I'm yet to see the evidence, but in terms of the vigilante action from pro-palestinians, that certainly is true.

I have also heard reports that the Maccabi fans were seeking Palestinians, attacking taxis and their drivers as well as smashing windows of buildings with pro-Palestinian messages or symbolism.

In the subsequent time, the mainstream media bias has largely shown itself to be unashamedly and unquestionably biased toward Israel (long has been the case). Notably Sky News deleting and then reposting a more Israel friendly version of what has been considered a reasonable and accurate original report.

That is on top of the egregious misrepresentation of the video that was highlighted in Owen Jones' piece. The videographer has gone on the record on several occasions to denounce the purposeful misrepresentation of the facts that she maintains were made clear to various outlets on release of the footage. More information has come to light showing Reuters is also guilty of a gross misrepresentation of the truth as it labelled the same video footage in a misleading fashion for distribution to other media outlets.

It is a matter of fact that Maccabi fans were enacting violence on the day before the match and particularly soon after the match where they were filmed obtaining improvised weapons such as planks of wood, metal bars and threatening locals as well as beating them.

Curiously, it was reported before the game that Mossad Agents were to join Maccabi team in Amsterdam.

Just in case: Mossad agents to join Maccabi Tel Aviv FC trip to Amsterdam

In the first year of a revamped format, the yellow-and-blue currently sit in 34th place out of 36 teams in the Europa League, with three losses from three games.

www.jpost.com

Maccabi Fans. of course, have a long and well documented track record of racist, violent behaviour. The chants were overtly genocidal, Islamaphobic.

It very much paints the picture that the Maccabi Fans were deliberately looking to provoke a response and the media and authorities have really done all they can to support and enable this.

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I assume you accept that Netenyahu was unequivocally describing this as another Kristalnacht which is of course utterly ridiculous.

The depravity and double standards are clear and obvious.

The links between Zionism and political and media influence are open for all to see from Starmer the 'Zionist without qualification' who refuses to define his own personal definition genocide, despite being a human rights lawyer and one who accepts donations from Israeli lobbying groups, to Tommy Robinson and many, many more.

-------

I suppose you are aware of MBS's comment recently regarding the situation in Gaza:

“The Kingdom reiterates its condemnation and absolute refusal of the collective genocide committed by Israel against the brotherly Palestinian people.”

This is the guy who is an important player in the Abraham accords and who has demanded Palestinian statehood as a requirement of the agreement:

"Last year the kingdom was in the process of negotiating a historic normalization agreement with Israel but recently said that was “off the table” without Palestinian statehood, a demand rejected by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/12/middleeast/saudi-mbs-accuses-israel-genocide-gaza-intl/index.html

We also have the Israeli government announcing its plans for officially annexing the West Bank. Continuing the clear plan that has always been so, despite the obfuscation and political gerrymandering and gaslighting.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/11/middleeast/israeli-minister-annexation-occupied-west-bank-intl/index.html

I would expect any rebuttal of this evidence and any attempt to defend these policies and actions to be extraordinary given how obvious the genocide is.

For reference, here is the genocide convention:

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf

 

[Badadmcmad]

If they come, I hope they all move into your neighbourhood and see how that plays out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856383958730113499

I fully support this motion.

Innocent Palestinians forced from their lands by a genocidal regime should be offered all the support and assistance we can offer. If not for the colonial acts of the Zionist movement, they would have their ancestral homes and this would not be an issue.

Our politicians who have complicity in the atrocities should have their day in the Hague.


Morons should reconsider posting overtly racist messages.

 

[Badadmcmad]

You think it hasn't been done? Of course it has.

Easy. Provide the link to a reputable source that supports your position, that has been peer reviewed and accepted as an authoritative text on the subject... be objective.

Of course it comes down to whether or not you'd agree with the categorization and classifications required to work it out, which is fair enough. However, it's my personal view and also the view of many others.

Would your view perhaps attribute the two world wars and all the deaths to Nationalistic ideology?

How do you classify the deaths due to conflicts between religious ideology?

Should all those who share CoE or Catholic ideology be labelled as child molesters?

You can see the dangerous ground your argument, without specific explanation could result in.

I would imagine the first suggestion would have a large amount of evidence to support it. Looking at a relevant case, you have a far right, Nationalistic and ethnocentric Israeli regime conducting a genocide, seeking more land and exterminating another racial group. Sound famiilar?

My non position on what really happened is proof of a lack of 'reasonable objectivity'? Mmmm....let's just say we disagree and leave it at that.

By definition. You've entered a conversation following on from the presentation of evidence and analysis and you've offered is subjective and mostly irrelevant. No offerings that are objectively useful to the debate.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Easy. Provide the link to a reputable source that supports your position, that has been peer reviewed and accepted as an authoritative text on the subject... be objective.

The guy continually using the word 'genocide' on what's going on in Palestine/Israel says that my opinion has to be objective. It could be suggested that you could try some of that yourself.

For example, your contention of genocide isn't accepted by a huge number of countries itself and is a controversial opinion.

As for my position on communism here there a many many sources, it could have taken you less than a minute to find them yourself.

Nevertheless, here are some of the many:

Who killed more: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao

Source: NY Review of Books (2/5/18) Who Killed More: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao? By Ian Johnson In these pages nearly seven years ago, Timothy Snyder asked the provocative question: Who killed more, Hi…

u.osu.edu

https://www.cato.org/commentary/100-years-communism-death-deprivation

Data on Mass Murder by Government in the 20th Century

This post presents the data for the mass murders by the Nazi regime and its allies, by Communist regimes and their allies, and by other governments. This

reason.com

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?

When it comes to use of the word “genocide,” public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin’s mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be widened.

news.stanford.edu

Would your view perhaps attribute the two world wars and all the deaths to Nationalistic ideology?

All wars involve an element of nationalism both in attack and defence. If I broke into your house and attacked your partner or stole your possessions you'd want retribution, either by yourself or the state precisely because what was yours was harmed. This natural emotion is thus extended towards whatever tribe/nation you feel a sense of belonging to. Versions of it are extended towards the political and even class.

You know I have to comment that I view it somewhat of a concrete mindset that thinks that being nationalistic means that you are gung ho for wars. I mean look at the current situation, the main advocates for peace in Ukraine and indeed in the middle east are the majority of the dissident right who are probably the most nationalistic....they aren't the neo cons on either of these two wars.

I think the recent comment of the Jewish Dave Smith hit home to me....'whoever you vote for you get John McCain'......Yeah, and I'll add because these policies are brought and paid for by the donors of either party.

But to draw back to your original comment I view nationalism as just human nature. I don't think it's a realistic summary to say that the world wars were just down to nationalistic ideology as they involved many different ideologies. But was it involved: yes.....It's reductive to put wars purely down to nationalism but of course it's involved....Even Stalin used nationalism when he deemed it necessary......Social liberals co-opt it for Ukraine, while they attack it elsewhere.

My contention focused upon political ideologies.

How do you classify the deaths due to conflicts between religious ideology?

Depends upon the war but some wars have involved it obviously. The continual war in the middle east being a case in point....but again, it's reductive to picture it just as religious as it's more a war over land between ethnic groups.

Should all those who share CoE or Catholic ideology be labelled as child molesters?

As the ideology does not contain support for sex with children the obvious answer is no.

You can see the dangerous ground your argument, without specific explanation could result in.

As provided my opinion comes with a large body of work to support it.

I would imagine the first suggestion would have a large amount of evidence to support it. Looking at a relevant case, you have a far right, Nationalistic and ethnocentric Israeli regime conducting a genocide, seeking more land and exterminating another racial group. Sound famiilar?

I wouldn't frame what is going on in quite your terms, as I view both nationalism and ethnocentrism as natural and vital to human survival. Of course if taken to excess they can resuit in harm both internally and externally.....As with all nature how something is used creates the results.

You seem to make the mistake of assuming my opinion. The difference between ourselves is on this topic is probably more centred on how we feel about human nature.....a common point of difference between left and right.

By definition. You've entered a conversation following on from the presentation of evidence and analysis and you've offered is subjective and mostly irrelevant. No offerings that are objectively useful to the debate.

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

 

[ASCPFC]

I fully support this motion.

Innocent Palestinians forced from their lands by a genocidal regime should be offered all the support and assistance we can offer. If not for the colonial acts of the Zionist movement, they would have their ancestral homes and this would not be an issue.

Our politicians who have complicity in the atrocities should have their day in the Hague.


Morons should reconsider posting overtly racist messages.

Why might people not want Palestinians?

Is it because the country is so full of fake asylum seekers that even real refugees are hardly wanted anymore? Is it because there is far too much influence from Islam already?

Or is it that everyone is a racist moron?

What I find is that genuine refugees are welcome but the system has been so misused that the real refugees are now hidden amongst a sea of fake ones. What should be changed? People's minds on racism? Or perhaps the whole fakery of the current immigration system and border controls. I can say hand on heart that every time I fly from Ireland there are no passport checks at all. Is that ok? Or open to abuse?

I'd take all of the Palestinian refugees no problem but first I'd want an equivalent amount of people from designated safe countries to be repatriated. Also, any refugees coming to the country "in fear of their lives" and then going on holiday there six months/ a year later can be repatriated too. Including Ukrainians.

When you work with refugees you quickly find the truth. I advise it for you.

I am working with an Asylum seeker from Afghanistan - she just went on holiday there for a month to visit her family. How is that a genuine asylum seeker? She's not exactly an isolated case. They don't even attempt to hide it. She just outright told me she did it with her Afghani passport. If I reported it nothing would happen, plus I'm not a rat, but I'm not happy about it. I'm close to the stage where no one is welcome if it's going to be such a piss take.

Now she's moved her brother and his family over into her tax payer funded house. Where do you think from? The UK. Yes, he must have faced all that racism there in Birmingham.
That's the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes a dose of reality is required.

Take as many Palestinians as you like but let's get rid of all the chancers first. That will clear up hundreds of thousands if not millions of places for them. Done properly it would certainly be 80% of people who are customarily granted status. In 2021 in Ireland, every appeal against denial of status was successful - 100%. Does that seem likely to you? The UK numbers will be similar.

 

[Penge Eagle]

I fully support this motion.

Innocent Palestinians forced from their lands by a genocidal regime should be offered all the support and assistance we can offer. If not for the colonial acts of the Zionist movement, they would have their ancestral homes and this would not be an issue.

Our politicians who have complicity in the atrocities should have their day in the Hague.


Morons should reconsider posting overtly racist messages.

So you support importing people to the UK who hate the West, certainly hate Jews, support a terrorist group and are statistically likely to commit crimes? That's going to end well. There's already data on this: '64% of Denmark’s 1992 Palestinian Refugees Are Criminals' The shocking revelation about Palestinians and crime in Denmark: the vast majority have been convicted of crimes

The UK has ZERO obligation to take these people in. There is no evidence the UK has had any impact in Israeli government decisions. Can you explain to me why this country should take in 'refugees' ahead of Arab countries?

Ah the "colonial acts of the Zionist movement" you say. That's almost a verbatim quote from the Hamas Charter. Those violent Nazi terrorists.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The guy continually using the word 'genocide' on what's going on in Palestine/Israel says that my opinion has to be objective. It could be suggested that you could try some of that yourself.

For example, your contention of genocide isn't accepted by a huge number of countries itself and is a controversial opinion.

As for my position on communism here there a many many sources, it could have taken you less than a minute to find them yourself.

Nevertheless, here are some of the many:

Who killed more: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao

Source: NY Review of Books (2/5/18) Who Killed More: Hitler, Stalin, or Mao? By Ian Johnson In these pages nearly seven years ago, Timothy Snyder asked the provocative question: Who killed more, Hi…

u.osu.edu

https://www.cato.org/commentary/100-years-communism-death-deprivation

Data on Mass Murder by Government in the 20th Century

This post presents the data for the mass murders by the Nazi regime and its allies, by Communist regimes and their allies, and by other governments. This

reason.com

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?

When it comes to use of the word “genocide,” public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin’s mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be widened.

news.stanford.edu

All wars involve an element of nationalism both in attack and defence. If I broke into your house and attacked your partner or stole your possessions you'd want retribution, either by yourself or the state precisely because what was yours was harmed. This natural emotion is thus extended towards whatever tribe/nation you feel a sense of belonging to. Versions of it are extended towards the political and even class.

You know I have to comment that I view it somewhat of a concrete mindset that thinks that being nationalistic means that you are gung ho for wars. I mean look at the current situation, the main advocates for peace in Ukraine and indeed in the middle east are the majority of the dissident right who are probably the most nationalistic....they aren't the neo cons on either of these two wars.

I think the recent comment of the Jewish Dave Smith hit home to me....'whoever you vote for you get John McCain'......Yeah, and I'll add because these policies are brought and paid for by the donors of either party.

But to draw back to your original comment I view nationalism as just human nature. I don't think it's a realistic summary to say that the world wars were just down to nationalistic ideology as they involved many different ideologies. But was it involved: yes.....It's reductive to put wars purely down to nationalism but of course it's involved....Even Stalin used nationalism when he deemed it necessary......Social liberals co-opt it for Ukraine, while they attack it elsewhere.

My contention focused upon political ideologies.


Depends upon the war but some wars have involved it obviously. The continual war in the middle east being a case in point....but again, it's reductive to picture it just as religious as it's more a war over land between ethnic groups.



As the ideology does not contain support for sex with children the obvious answer is no.



As provided my opinion comes with a large body of work to support it.



I wouldn't frame what is going on in quite your terms, as I view both nationalism and ethnocentrism as natural and vital to human survival. Of course if taken to excess they can resuit in harm both internally and externally.....As with all nature how something is used creates the results.

You seem to make the mistake of assuming my opinion. The difference between ourselves is on this topic is probably more centred on how we feel about human nature.....a common point of difference between left and right.




You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

The guy is so warped by ideology that he will defend Communist mass murderers Pot, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

 

[Spiderman]

The guy is so warped by ideology that he will defend Communist mass murderers Pot, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

But never replied to my question regarding the Jew Hunt in Belgium. Still he has nailed his colours well and truly to the mast so no surprise

 

[Badadmcmad]

The guy continually using the word 'genocide' on what's going on in Palestine/Israel says that my opinion has to be objective. It could be suggested that you could try some of that yourself.

For example, your contention of genocide isn't accepted by a huge number of countries itself and is a controversial opinion.

So you disagree with the UN's definition of genocide, signed up to by 153 states. So what is your definition? How many states have signed up to that definition? What is contraversial? Why is it ratified by the US, UK, Israel, Russia, Iran, Iraq and a huge number of others?

UNTC

This is the United Nations Treaty Collection homepage. Here you will find related information and links.

treaties.un.org

Stirlingsays said:
...their ideology having killed far more people than any other...

My contention focused upon political ideologies...

It's reductive...

You reduce Sarkar and Jones' ideologies (despite acknowledging there are differences in social and economic persepective in Jones') to simply being communist ideology which you then say has killed far more people than any other and use that as an argument for not addressing evidence they present...

I would contest that any ideology that affects the way you live your life is part of your political ideology. Social, economic, religious etc. You make the same argument when reducing Jones' social and economic ideologies to simply communism.

For example, the State of Israel is founded on religious ideology as with Pakistan. Sharia law for another aspect of religious ideology is a more overt part of the local political ideology.

'Political ideologies' are all encompassing.

As the ideology does not contain support for sex with children the obvious answer is no.

So religious ideology does not support sex with children, despite it having happened frequently across different religious groups with the involvement of those high up in the organisations in some cases.

So you contend that 'support' of an action is not dependent on the performing of that action. So there must be something other than just the doing to demonstrate that an ideology actually supports such an act. Maybe if that course of action is written down perhaps? What qualifies for support in your view?

Religious ideology has also driven wars and killing. Advocacy of killing is present in religious texts. Does an action need to be written down as well as performed before it can be said the ideology 'supports' an action?

...it's reductive to picture it just as religious as it's more a war over land between ethnic groups...

Double standards wrt your position on sources and 'political ideology'. OK for you to reduce a person's ideology. OK to reduce a political ideology to who's killed the most and to attribute the killing simply to the ideology being communism vs the nationalistic, economic, ethnic, environmental factors etc.

Many double standards in your arguments.

I wouldn't frame what is going on in quite your terms, as I view both nationalism and ethnocentrism as natural and vital to human survival.

Natural, I would tend to agree with - speaks to tribalism etc.

Vital to human survival!? You need to elaborate on your theory here. Especially as you've acknowledged that nationalism and ethnocentrism are both factors in war and I was of the impression that war is antithesis of human survival.

It would be very interesting to put context to your theory. I propose using Israel/Palestine as a Case Study.

Israel, as an ethnocentric state with nationalism as a dominant ideological concept, is responsible for killing tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people and creating conditions unfit for human survival in Gaza and elsewhere through systematic destruction of schools, hospitals, civil infrastructure and by restricting aid. In terms of the modern day middle-East, theirs' could be considered as your communist ideology, if you permit the reduction to simply who's killed the most.

Explain how nationalism and ethnocentrism is vital to the survival of the Palestinians people.

...if taken to excess they can resuit in harm both internally and externally

My personal view is that nationalism is fine for sport, but should - ideologically - be redundant from a political standpoint. We are all human. What's vital for human survival is to address the largest existential issues that face us as a species. Distribution of resources is of paramount importance, but should be based on need, not greed.

Ethnocentrism, is fundamentally a racist and discriminatory concept; reliant on the planned and forced displacement on other humans based solely on accident of birth. The existential problem that comes from an ideology of ethnocentrism, is that another ethnocentric society can just as well justify persecution of yours for exactly the same reasons. The result, inevitably, is conflict and existential threat to human survival... as has been the history of human civilisation...

You seem to make the mistake of assuming my opinion. The difference between ourselves is on this topic is probably more centred on how we feel about human nature.....a common point of difference between left and right.

It's not quite clear what you think I've assumed. You say it after a comment about disagreeing with the framing I used of Israel and asked if you think the actions of the Israel regime as described are familiar with those of the Nazis.

Please offer your alternative framing and whether or not what the Israeli regime is and how it acts is/is not reminiscent of the Nazis.

The human nature debate is going to be full of nuance especially when you want to talk about how you 'feel' about it.

So you can avoid assumption - as evidence by you use of the word 'probably' - I 'feel' human nature is an ambiguous terminology. It could simply be defined as anything humans can do - from love, compassion and generosity to murder, extortion or genocide.

I 'feel' that discussions as such are not really objectively useful, unless you want to put forward an argument that is relevant to the subject of Israel and Palestine that provides pertinent insight.

 

[Badadmcmad]

So you support importing people to the UK who hate the West, certainly hate Jews, support a terrorist group and are statistically likely to commit crimes? That's going to end well. There's already data on this: '64% of Denmark’s 1992 Palestinian Refugees Are Criminals' The shocking revelation about Palestinians and crime in Denmark: the vast majority have been convicted of crimes

The UK has ZERO obligation to take these people in. There is no evidence the UK has had any impact in Israeli government decisions. Can you explain to me why this country should take in 'refugees' ahead of Arab countries?

Ah the "colonial acts of the Zionist movement" you say. That's almost a verbatim quote from the Hamas Charter. Those violent Nazi terrorists.

Racist morons, have to continue to spout racist bigotry it would appear.

At least provide the primary source of the data behind your assertions (notably any reference is missing in the article you provide - surprising for a right wing media outlet?).

 

[cryrst]

Racist morons, have to continue to spout racist bigotry it would appear.

At least provide the primary source of the data behind your assertions (notably any reference is missing in the article you provide - surprising for a right wing media outlet?).

It’s not genocide it’s killing terrorists. If Hamas f***ed off and handed back the hostages the bombing would stop. It’s a war and innocents die and will always die.

 

[ASCPFC]

Racist morons, have to continue to spout racist bigotry it would appear.

At least provide the primary source of the data behind your assertions (notably any reference is missing in the article you provide - surprising for a right wing media outlet?).

The most spouting of moronic racist bigotry is often to be found at pro-Palestine rallies. Let alone what is said at Friday prayers in some mosques. Which has been going on for some time.

 

[Badger11]

So you support importing people to the UK who hate the West, certainly hate Jews, support a terrorist group and are statistically likely to commit crimes? That's going to end well. There's already data on this: '64% of Denmark’s 1992 Palestinian Refugees Are Criminals' The shocking revelation about Palestinians and crime in Denmark: the vast majority have been convicted of crimes

The UK has ZERO obligation to take these people in. There is no evidence the UK has had any impact in Israeli government decisions. Can you explain to me why this country should take in 'refugees' ahead of Arab countries?

Ah the "colonial acts of the Zionist movement" you say. That's almost a verbatim quote from the Hamas Charter. Those violent Nazi terrorists.

Saudi Arabia has the land and the money to take care of any refugees. Don't hold your breath though.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Racist morons, have to continue to spout racist bigotry it would appear.

At least provide the primary source of the data behind your assertions (notably any reference is missing in the article you provide - surprising for a right wing media outlet?).

The primary source was in the article.

 

[Spiderman]

Racist morons, have to continue to spout racist bigotry it would appear.

At least provide the primary source of the data behind your assertions (notably any reference is missing in the article you provide - surprising for a right wing media outlet?).

well you can stop anytime you want

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I'm starting to wonder, if perhaps the best solution to Northern Ireland was to missile and bomb the hell out of everyone indiscriminately.
So a few civilians might have got in the way of the military action, but could get the rest by denying food and water and medical aid, and opening the border to the Republic.

The UK missed a trick there.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

I'm starting to wonder, if perhaps the best solution to Northern Ireland was to missile and bomb the hell out of everyone indiscriminately.
So a few civilians might have got in the way of the military action, but could get the rest by denying food and water and medical aid, and opening the border to the Republic.

The UK missed a trick there.

Not comparable.

 

[steeleye20]

The United States and Israel now totally isolated at the UN , 95% of the world votes against them, its become the norm.

Is Israel ethnically cleansing Gaza? 94% polled say yes they are, if you asked the man in the street they would probably agree, this is in real time, it cannot be hidden to suit the west's leaders.

The Dutch government could fall over their lies, Schulz precsrious but still arming Israel, probably next.

Biden gone, Harris, Sunak, Macron no power left, Starmer in denial.

And voters are removing them where they can, whether or not their successors could be any better, hence Trump.

The western media seem to think their job is to present their editorial line and not the truth, no apologies from sky or bbc, cbs etc. who blatantly distorted the facts captured by the camera in Amsterdam.

😎

 

[Spiderman]

The United States and Israel now totally isolated at the UN , 95% of the world votes against them, its become the norm.

Is Israel ethnically cleansing Gaza? 94% polled say yes they are, if you asked the man in the street they would probably agree, this is in real time, it cannot be hidden to suit the west's leaders.

The Dutch government could fall over their lies, Schulz precsrious but still arming Israel, probably next.

Biden gone, Harris, Sunak, Macron no power left, Starmer in denial.

And voters are removing them where they can, whether or not their successors could be any better, hence Trump.

The western media seem to think their job is to present their editorial line and not the truth, no apologies from sky or bbc, cbs etc. who blatantly distorted the facts captured by the camera in Amsterdam.

😎

Do you have a relative in Leeds?

 

[cryrst]

The United States and Israel now totally isolated at the UN , 95% of the world votes against them, its become the norm.

Is Israel ethnically cleansing Gaza? 94% polled say yes they are, if you asked the man in the street they would probably agree, this is in real time, it cannot be hidden to suit the west's leaders.

The Dutch government could fall over their lies, Schulz precsrious but still arming Israel, probably next.

Biden gone, Harris, Sunak, Macron no power left, Starmer in denial.

And voters are removing them where they can, whether or not their successors could be any better, hence Trump.

The western media seem to think their job is to present their editorial line and not the truth, no apologies from sky or bbc, cbs etc. who blatantly distorted the facts captured by the camera in Amsterdam.

😎

If it was as you say more would be dead by now and Israel would be in control. The solution is in the hands of Hamas so look that way for who to blame.