Is Glasner the problem?

[JHB]

I was hoping that Glasner might be a Thomas Franck style manager.
Innovative, collaborative, personable and able to punch above his weight.

Glasner still might be this for us, but there have to be some doubts.

Franck is also a pragmatist who has adapted when key players have been unavailable.
He changes formations, rotates and swaps out players when things aren't working.
It's all about what works for the team to give them the best chance to achieve a result.
I doubt too many on here would suggest that they have a better squad than us, but they are certainly a more efficient team.

We are not an efficient team, at least so far this season, and cannot convert performances into results.

Agree with this. My son is a Brentford fan (we live that side of London) and so I’ve seen them quite a bit. Frank generally manages to get a performance from the team and will adapt. They went through a rough patch last season but he was able to adjust. For all the people who have rightly called out our injuries keep in mind Frank lost his best player and key goal scorer for half a season and still adapted. He’s lost him for good this season and Brentford are playing well with 9 more points than us.

 

[park the bus]

Answer. Because we can’t or won’t invest and our rivals will. For example refusing to fork out the wages for our best passing centre back and selling him once the season started. Now we can all argue about whether it was the right thing financially but you can’t build a Ferrari on the budget of a Skoda.

Precisely. Therefore the fault lies with Parish & Co, not with the more progressive style managers that have been brought in to implement a certain style of play, a style which more than likely would mean having to dip more generously into the kitty. Saying that, they wasted a lot of money on Franca and Nketiah, so maybe it's a matter of poor scouting too.

 

[JHB]

Precisely. Therefore the fault lies with Parish & Co, not with the more progressive style managers that have been brought in to implement a certain style of play, a style which more than likely would mean having to dip more generously into the kitty. Saying that, they wasted a lot of money on Franca and Nketiah, so maybe it's a matter of poor scouting too.

I think fault can be found with both the investment strategy and with the manager. Yes we didn’t invest very well in the summer and yes that is going to limit the style of football we can play. That is the reason we aren’t able to sustain progressive football.

However, that is a different issue to getting results which is the manager’s job. That means he has to adapt to the squad he has. If that means adapting your footballing principles then so be it. If you don’t then you end up like us this season or Burnley last season.

 

[JHB]

I think fault can be found with both the investment strategy and with the manager. Yes we didn’t invest very well in the summer and yes that is going to limit the style of football we can play. That is the reason we aren’t able to sustain progressive football.

However, that is a different issue to getting results which is the manager’s job. That means he has to adapt to the squad he has. If that means adapting your footballing principles then so be it. If you don’t then you end up like us this season or Burnley last season.

I’d add that the players Glasner did want haven’t improved the squad. Kamada we all know about. Lacroix has started to do well individually but the overall defensive unit isn’t any better.

 

[CrazyBadger]

I'm not blind to Glasner's faults, you're right about fielding Wharton against Villa, the Eze injury was just bad luck, and he is more rigid with 3-5-2 or 343 than Roy was -with his formations he would go between 442, 433 and 451, and in his return at home to Leicester it was almost 415, but you're being so so selective in not giving Glasner the credit he deserves for Mateta's improvement - even if you don't count his goals last season he is playing far better now than he did for Roy or Viera, you can cite various circumstances but those circumstances were mainly made by each manager.

This is the point I think. people say he is inflexible in his 343 tactics, but 343 is a fluid and flexible modern formation. The trick is getting the players to play this system effectively.

Maybe he needs to take a lesson from Mr Myagi, and master all the systems individually before putting them all together!

 

[MrRobbo]

Better close Palace Talk down then. Or perhaps no match threads, player or manager threads. Won’t be much left of course.

Not really. I just find it odd, constantly banging on about something like its a silver bullet. Without any acknowledgement that there are nuances in set up, and flexability in implementation.

And acting as though our highly respected manager has missed something that even the village idiot could spot.

 

[MrRobbo]

Answer. Because we can’t or won’t invest and our rivals will. For example refusing to fork out the wages for our best passing centre back and selling him once the season started. Now we can all argue about whether it was the right thing financially but you can’t build a Ferrari on the budget of a Skoda.

We spend within our means.

Refusing to put a 28yo on a £150k 5 year contract isn't being tight, its being sensible. He'll spend the last 2 years of that contract sat on the bench.

 

[JHB]

Not really. I just find it odd, constantly banging on about something like its a silver bullet. Without any acknowledgement that there are nuances in set up, and flexability in implementation.

And acting as though our highly respected manager has missed something that even the village idiot could spot.

As ever it’s a balance isn’t it? Glasner is clearly somebody who understands football better than most or he wouldn’t be a manager. However, that doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism. So while it would be clearly wrong to say he knows nothing about football it’s also clearly wrong to say he’s doing everything right. Especially when some of things are repeated even when they’ve been shown not to work like Kamada in midfield or picking Nketiah on the right.

Ultimately it doesn’t really matter if Glasner is an amazing student of the game who makes subtle adjustments the average mortal cannot fathom, or knows as much about tactics as Ted Laso. What matters is results and points. So far this season the results are poor and we are second from bottom.

 

[JHB]

We spend within our means.

Refusing to put a 28yo on a £150k 5 year contract isn't being tight, it’s being sensible. He'll spend the last 2 years of that contract sat on the bench.

28 isn’t that old in football anymore. Players now often play at a good level into their mid thirties so a five year deal looks ok.

Ultimately time will tell. So far Fulham have 18 points with 5 wins. We have 8 points with 1 win. I don’t imagine many Fulham fans feel they got the rough end of the deal so far.

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

Devenny has taken his chance really well. I just hope Glasner sticks with him. Devenny showed he has got the tactical sense to play alongside Mateta and Sarr. The three looked promising front runners for us.
Pray Glasner does not revert back to Kamada.
When Wharton makes it back, alongside the restoring Doucoure, we could see an exciting fast moving team. I would also look at Richards instead of Chaloba, and bring in a new LWB. Chilwell on loan would be sweet.

Pray Glasner does not revert back to Kamada.

Im praying

 

[NEILLO]

As ever it’s a balance isn’t it? Glasner is clearly somebody who understands football better than most or he wouldn’t be a manager. However, that doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism. So while it would be clearly wrong to say he knows nothing about football it’s also clearly wrong to say he’s doing everything right. Especially when some of things are repeated even when they’ve been shown not to work like Kamada in midfield or picking Nketiah on the right.

Ultimately it doesn’t really matter if Glasner is an amazing student of the game who makes subtle adjustments the average mortal cannot fathom, or knows as much about tactics as Ted Laso. What matters is results and points. So far this season the results are poor and we are second from bottom.

Perhaps I’m missing something in this debate, but I don’t recall any of the ‘ pro Glasner ‘ group, of which I am one, has ever claimed that he’s either immune from criticism or that he’s doing everything right.

What I have tried to do is understand the reasons behind this poor start to the season and then present them on here in explanation of why I am still backing the manager rather than arbitrarily sacking him after just 11/12 games.

And yes, it’s a results business. If the team continue to struggle there will come a point when Parish concludes that a change is necessary. And pro Glasner that I am, I would understand, accept and support that decision.

 

[JHB]

Perhaps I’m missing something in this debate, but I don’t recall any of the ‘ pro Glasner ‘ group, of which I am one, has ever claimed that he’s either immune from criticism or that he’s doing everything right.

What I have tried to do is understand the reasons behind this poor start to the season and then present them on here in explanation of why I am still backing the manager rather than arbitrarily sacking him after just 11/12 games.

And yes, it’s a results business. If the team continue to struggle there will come a point when Parish concludes that a change is necessary. And pro Glasner that I am, I would understand, accept and support that decision.

I think we are agreeing aren’t we? We are both saying he knows more about football than us but also has got some things wrong. We are all agreeing results are disappointing.

 

[NEILLO]

28 isn’t that old in football anymore. Players now often play at a good level into their mid thirties so a five year deal looks ok.

Ultimately time will tell. So far Fulham have 18 points with 5 wins. We have 8 points with 1 win. I don’t imagine many Fulham fans feel they got the rough end of the deal so far.

It’s not just about Andersen and whether his demands would have been value for money.

You have to factor in the potential impact of agreeing to that deal on the rest of the squad.

I would have preferred to still have Joa at Palace, but he saw an opportunity for a big pay day and took it. He’s just become a father for the first time and I’m sure this played into his thinking when looking for a new contract.

 

[MrRobbo]

As ever it’s a balance isn’t it? Glasner is clearly somebody who understands football better than most or he wouldn’t be a manager. However, that doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism. So while it would be clearly wrong to say he knows nothing about football it’s also clearly wrong to say he’s doing everything right. Especially when some of things are repeated even when they’ve been shown not to work like Kamada in midfield or picking Nketiah on the right.

Ultimately it doesn’t really matter if Glasner is an amazing student of the game who makes subtle adjustments the average mortal cannot fathom, or knows as much about tactics as Ted Laso. What matters is results and points. So far this season the results are poor and we are second from bottom.

Its always a balance. And I'm probably more positive and trusting that the average poster.

I dont think he's immune from criticism, nor that anyone is saying he's done everything right. But I think its a bit silly when for example we lose Fulham after playing MG in center mid, and posters are pinning the reason on the formation

 

[NEILLO]

I think we are agreeing aren’t we? We are both saying he knows more about football than us but also has got some things wrong. We are all agreeing results are disappointing.

To an extent, yes I think we are agreeing.

Where I don’t agree is your comment about him being immune from criticism etc. I don’t believe that anybody has claimed that he is.

 

[JHB]

It’s not just about Andersen and whether his demands would have been value for money.

You have to factor in the potential impact of agreeing to that deal on the rest of the squad.

I would have preferred to still have Joa at Palace, but he saw an opportunity for a big pay day and took it. He’s just become a father for the first time and I’m sure this played into his thinking when looking for a new contract.

Yes the wage structure will have been a big factor. If we gave him that deal then that would be the starting point for every first team player in their next contract negotiation. That kind of illustrates the point though. Our wage structure is not keeping pace with other mid table teams. If we can’t invest at the same level as the teams around us (I’m talking the likes of Fulham here, not the big clubs) we are going to find it hard.

By the way I’m not advocating spending beyond our means as we know where that ends up. Just saying our means are a reason we struggle to progress.

 

[MrRobbo]

28 isn’t that old in football anymore. Players now often play at a good level into their mid thirties so a five year deal looks ok.

Ultimately time will tell. So far Fulham have 18 points with 5 wins. We have 8 points with 1 win. I don’t imagine many

Fulham fans feel they got the rough end of the deal so far.

No 28 isnt old, but the game is getting younger. I cant be bothered to check, but did any other club spend over 30mill on a 28year old? I dont think so. The money sloshing aorund is all for under 25's who have sell on value.

But yes ultimately time will tell.

I'd agree that Fulham will be happy with the deal, and they got a player who could some straight into the team and perform. They spent IMO over the odds on bringing in some ready made players this summer. Short term bump, but may cause them issues in time.

Lacroix has taken a little while to warm up, but is now one of the better players every week.

Its a longer term strategy, but I'm happy with that

 

[NEILLO]

Yes the wage structure will have been a big factor. If we gave him that deal then that would be the starting point for every first team player in their next contract negotiation. That kind of illustrates the point though. Our wage structure is not keeping pace with other mid table teams. If we can’t invest at the same level as the teams around us (I’m talking the likes of Fulham here, not the big clubs) we are going to find it hard.

By the way I’m not advocating spending beyond our means as we know where that ends up. Just saying our means are a reason we struggle to progress.

What makes you say that re wage structure ?

I believe our wages bill is higher than that of Fulham, Brighton, Wolves, Brentford and Forest. Those are just a few that I looked up.

While I doubt that the figures are 100% accurate, there’s an indication that actually we are more than keeping pace with similar size clubs.

That begs the question of whether the club is getting value for money however…..

 

[park the bus]

What makes you say that re wage structure ?

I believe our wages bill is higher than that of Fulham, Brighton, Wolves, Brentford and Forest. Those are just a few that I looked up.

While I doubt that the figures are 100% accurate, there’s an indication that actually we are more than keeping pace with similar size clubs.

That begs the question of whether the club is getting value for money however…..

Boom! Frankly, no. Ever since the Benteke debacle, even so far as offering the chump another contract, the club seems adept at paying over the odds for players who don't perform or contribute. Meyer, Franca, Riedewald, Ferguson, Edouard, the list is long...

 

[doombear]

Answer. Because we can’t or won’t invest and our rivals will. For example refusing to fork out the wages for our best passing centre back and selling him once the season started. Now we can all argue about whether it was the right thing financially but you can’t build a Ferrari on the budget of a Skoda.

I disagree re Andersen. There is no way the club were going to make Andersen the highest paid player at Palace - and rightly so. Nor were they going to give the player a 5 year contract at the age of 28 - again, rightly so.

Finally, we don't have the budget of a Ferrari, so we aren't going to compete with clubs who either do have such a budget or who are desperate to make a noise in the here and now and damn the consequences.