Is Glasner the problem?

[beak]

I'm feeling GLAzed all over,yes i'm...........

 

[NEILLO]

Re Glasners tactics.

Put yourself in his shoes.

He inherited something of a mid season mess last year. He changed the formation to one that he has successfully adopted at his previous clubs. The results he had at those clubs were what built his reputation and made him a candidate for a job in the EPL, and indeed what got him the job at Palace.

Results didn't come straight away, but ( admittedly with an on form Olise, Eze, Wharton etc. ) by the end of last season I don't recall too many complaints on here about tactics and playing formation.

This season results have been disappointing - no two ways about it. But with the exception of the Fulham game, performances haven't been as bad as the actual results. I think Palace have been competitive in just about every other fixture. Glasner, I think, would opine that we aren't far away from turning results around, especially given the circumstances that have been debated on here many times before.

So he's naturally going to be reluctant to radically move away from what he thinks is his best chance of success.

Time will tell if Palace are going to turn the corner and move up the table. The Board are currently backing him - rightly so in my opinion - and they stand to lose financially if they get it wrong - they have every incentive to get that decision right.

Do I trust the Boards decision making 100% ? No, I doubt if fans of any given club do. But I trust their judgement more than I do some of those on this site.

 

[NMPalace]

If you are using tactics you don’t have the players for then, by definition, your tactics are the problem

Have to agree. It's alright having a preferred formation, but you need to adjust based on your players' abilities, injuries/suspensions, the opposition and situations in matches.

In a recent interview ex Man U Tom Cleverley now starting out in management at Watford explained he's not welded to one formation but is playing 3 CBs as it best suits the players he has available. Common sense from an inexperienced manager.

When you see Guehi looking so commanding for England as one of 2 CBs and it was only a few months ago we turned down £65m for him playing him in a back 3 seems a bit of a luxury.

Yes we have a few injuries, but all clubs do (Spurs won at Man City with both CBs missing) but we have been putting 'square pegs in round holes' all season.

Recruitment hasn't helped - Kamada was always going to take time to adapt so should have been used sparingly from the bench (and not in a 2 man CM), and Eddie N was always an expensive gamble.

I think based on the Fulham and now Villa games we will continue to play 3421 regardless of personnel.

So we need key players fit - luckily Eze should be back next week - and the Jan transfer window is key. A right sided left footed player seems the most critical position.

I like OG and hope we can turn the corner, however, ultimately his inflexibility will be his undoing - hopefully the best case scenario is that we turn the corner this season and he has a steady season next season and leaves amicably at the end of his contract in 2026.

 

[doombear]

Its so insane to me that so many people, with no coaching badges, or experience, keep banging on about the formation.

I reckon our experienced manager may be best placed to make some of these calls.

Glasner's philosophy seems to be one of his club playing their game with a view to hurting the opposition by scoring goals. In that sense he's no different from Emery, Postecoglu or Guardiola.

Because we're seen as bit part players in the PL, it's easy to think that we need to adapt according to the opposition, which is basically the same as saying we are frightened of what they might do to us rather than focussing on what we can do to them. That doesn't mean that Glasner is blind to what the opposition can do - as we saw against Villa he honed in on Emery's high line approach and used Sarr's pace to break that line to good effect.

This season is about Glasner getting the whole squad accustomed to his style of play so that whoever gets picked will be comfortable in their role. This is beginning to happen but it has taken more time that we would have liked given the injuries. It is my belief that once Glasner feels his squad is grounded in his style he will look at ways to tweak it for certain opponents, but still with the focus on how we can hurt them.

Furthermore, I believe that despite our current league position, I don't think the board are looking to pull the plug on Glasner as long as we are putting in the performances and beginning to get the points those performances deserve.

 

[NMPalace]

Glasner's philosophy seems to be one of his club playing their game with a view to hurting the opposition by scoring goals. In that sense he's no different from Emery, Postecoglu or Guardiola.

Because we're seen as bit part players in the PL, it's easy to think that we need to adapt according to the opposition, which is basically the same as saying we are frightened of what they might do to us rather than focussing on what we can do to them. That doesn't mean that Glasner is blind to what the opposition can do - as we saw against Villa he honed in on Emery's high line approach and used Sarr's pace to break that line to good effect.

This season is about Glasner getting the whole squad accustomed to his style of play so that whoever gets picked will be comfortable in their role. This is beginning to happen but it has taken more time that we would have liked given the injuries. It is my belief that once Glasner feels his squad is grounded in his style he will look at ways to tweak it for certain opponents, but still with the focus on how we can hurt them.

Furthermore, I believe that despite our current league position, I don't think the board are looking to pull the plug on Glasner as long as we are putting in the performances and beginning to get the points those performances deserve.

disagree - it's not a case of changing formation every week, but tweaking little things to nullify your opponents stronger points.

It's a bit like all our opponents telling the midfielder to help out his defender when Eze is playing, which they clearly do.

Against Fulham i watched 10 minutes of their televised game the previous week. I thought make sure Smith Rowe doesn't get space in that No10 role and watch the LB when he bombs forward. We didn't seem to have a plan for either.

Against Man U deLigt scored from a set piece the week before yet Palace didn't seem to have anyone designated to mark him at set pieces. He should have scored twice in the first half.

Surely these are basics.

 

[CrazyBadger]

Have to agree. It's alright having a preferred formation, but you need to adjust based on your players' abilities, injuries/suspensions, the opposition and situations in matches.

In a recent interview ex Man U Tom Cleverley now starting out in management at Watford explained he's not welded to one formation but is playing 3 CBs as it best suits the players he has available. Common sense from an inexperienced manager.

When you see Guehi looking so commanding for England as one of 2 CBs and it was only a few months ago we turned down £65m for him playing him in a back 3 seems a bit of a luxury.

Yes we have a few injuries, but all clubs do (Spurs won at Man City with both CBs missing) but we have been putting 'square pegs in round holes' all season.

Recruitment hasn't helped - Kamada was always going to take time to adapt so should have been used sparingly from the bench (and not in a 2 man CM), and Eddie N was always an expensive gamble.

I think based on the Fulham and now Villa games we will continue to play 3421 regardless of personnel.

So we need key players fit - luckily Eze should be back next week - and the Jan transfer window is key. A right sided left footed player seems the most critical position.

I like OG and hope we can turn the corner, however, ultimately his inflexibility will be his undoing - hopefully the best case scenario is that we turn the corner this season and he has a steady season next season and leaves amicably at the end of his contract in 2026.

Isn't that a justification for OGs methods?

It's early days in OGs tenure, and he's attempting to implement a system that 1) the players aren't used to (with an ever changing list of players who can train), 2) he believes in and 3) we all want to see working!
There's bound to be teething issues, and a slow improvement. What we've seen is that we've had 15 games this season including 4 Wins and 6 Losses. Yes, the losses have all been in league games. but some of them, have included some bad 'luck' or bad officiating, which in any usual year we'd have picked up more points.
We've had a couple of bad performances. which isn't unusual, all teams have them, but considering our overall form and what we're trying to achieve, things have been improving and things are moving in the right direction, it's just a shame that we haven't gotten all the points we have deserved - but that's football!
As for reverting to a system that 'suits' the players better, there is a validity in that way of thinking but at this point in the teams development under OG, isn't it just going to run the risk of confusing the players further? Also, I'm not so sure we dont have the players for his system. defence is looking betting now ML and MG have been moved, Sarr's just shown he can play on the right. Mitchell is still a problem, and Kamada won't be an issue once we have all of Hughes/Wharton/Doucoure and Lerma back.
We just need to start picking up 3 points from time to time. Which is the crux of it. Without points people see bad performances and miss the context. Plenty of time RH's teams picked up points but played much worse. which would you rather have?
It's early days yet, and we are still in touch. OG needs and deserves more time, but the Priority has to be survival. Xmas still feels a little early for me, but if we continue our trajectory, and hopefully have no more setbacks, I hope things will be looking rosier come January.

 

[MrRobbo]

And never change? It's actually ridiculous. He's never going to remain long in a Job if he doesn't change according to the opposition or the circumstances of his own squad.
He has already quite obviously been read by all the other Premier League managers and they will adapt accordingly.
You now wonder was our good run based on the tactics being a surprise.
The obvious point being - don't adapt, you don't win, you don't last.

I think the definition of change and argument for is the issue for me.

That there aren't any changes. Whilst the broad formation hasn't changed, he's talked before about the flexibility in implementation. This i suspect will change game by game and also 'in game'. The thought that he isn't tweaking things based on the oppo is mental. We know he's an analytical manager. Do we think he just says, same as last week chaps and sends them out. Of course not. As a few have picked out, playing Sarr high to spring the offside trap is one example of this. Sometimes the wing backs will play more like full backs, sometimes the wide forward will play more like no 10s, or ore like 2 up top. Game to game, there will be different versions of the formations.

What to change to. When the chips are down, people want change for change sake. Change personal, formation, manager. Might work, might not. Personally, rather than insist we change something, I'd rather trust that Glasner knows what he's doing.

Above those, there may be a aspect of consistency. When all were fit the formation worked very well for us. (I still think that our issues this season have largely been injuries and finishing) fundamentally changing the system week in week out based on availability isn't likely to be a good idea. Instead getting the squad buying into a way of playing that you tweaks week to week feels more solid to me. Especially as you are trying to bed in a new defence. Wanna wait for Lacroix to settle and then say, its a back 2 this week mate. But back to 3 at the weekend.

 

[JHB]

Isn't that a justification for OGs methods?

It's early days in OGs tenure, and he's attempting to implement a system that 1) the players aren't used to (with an ever changing list of players who can train), 2) he believes in and 3) we all want to see working!
There's bound to be teething issues, and a slow improvement. What we've seen is that we've had 15 games this season including 4 Wins and 6 Losses. Yes, the losses have all been in league games. but some of them, have included some bad 'luck' or bad officiating, which in any usual year we'd have picked up more points.
We've had a couple of bad performances. which isn't unusual, all teams have them, but considering our overall form and what we're trying to achieve, things have been improving and things are moving in the right direction, it's just a shame that we haven't gotten all the points we have deserved - but that's football!
As for reverting to a system that 'suits' the players better, there is a validity in that way of thinking but at this point in the teams development under OG, isn't it just going to run the risk of confusing the players further? Also, I'm not so sure we dont have the players for his system. defence is looking betting now ML and MG have been moved, Sarr's just shown he can play on the right. Mitchell is still a problem, and Kamada won't be an issue once we have all of Hughes/Wharton/Doucoure and Lerma back.
We just need to start picking up 3 points from time to time. Which is the crux of it. Without points people see bad performances and miss the context. Plenty of time RH's teams picked up points but played much worse. which would you rather have?
It's early days yet, and we are still in touch. OG needs and deserves more time, but the Priority has to be survival. Xmas still feels a little early for me, but if we continue our trajectory, and hopefully have no more setbacks, I hope things will be looking rosier come January.

If it’s a choice between points and performances then it’s points every single time for me at this stage. We have to win one in three games to stay up. We’ve won one in 12.

I do hear this about OG’s methods etc but how long do we wait? He’s been in charge for 28 games. It’s not like he started in September this year.

I also hear about the luck, poor officiating etc but hand on heart how many games have we been the better team in? Spurs and that’s it really. Brentford, Wolves and Villa were fairly even but Everton (on balance), West Ham, Fulham, Forest and even Leicester all played better than us over 90 mins. So did Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd though we were fortunate to get points from the latter two. After 12 games to be saying we have only really been the best team in one game just isn’t great.

I think you are right that the board will give Glasner until Xmas and the last few games have been an improvement no doubt. I hope we can discover a run of form but we are now in a position where any further bad run could mean it is relegation as we’ve already used up most of our margin for error.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Use your eyes, forget the Mickey Mouse Europa league, he plays completely opposite to the way we should be, we have mid table players but relegation tactics, play narrow not expansive, don’t leave massive gaps between defenders and the midfield, he will relegate as all by himself, he doesn’t need any help, I can remember it took ages including the board to see how useless Vieira was, it’s Groundhog Day 😞

 

[JHB]

I think the definition of change and argument for is the issue for me.

That there aren't any changes. Whilst the broad formation hasn't changed, he's talked before about the flexibility in implementation. This i suspect will change game by game and also 'in game'. The thought that he isn't tweaking things based on the oppo is mental. We know he's an analytical manager. Do we think he just says, same as last week chaps and sends them out. Of course not. As a few have picked out, playing Sarr high to spring the offside trap is one example of this. Sometimes the wing backs will play more like full backs, sometimes the wide forward will play more like no 10s, or ore like 2 up top. Game to game, there will be different versions of the formations.

What to change to. When the chips are down, people want change for change sake. Change personal, formation, manager. Might work, might not. Personally, rather than insist we change something, I'd rather trust that Glasner knows what he's doing.

Above those, there may be an aspect of consistency. When all were fit the formation worked very well for us. (I still think that our issues this season have largely been injuries and finishing) fundamentally changing the system week in week out based on availability isn't likely to be a good idea. Instead getting the squad buying into a way of playing that you tweaks week to week feels more solid to me. Especially as you are trying to bed in a new defence. Wanna wait for Lacroix to settle and then say, its a back 2 this week mate. But back to 3 at the weekend.

I think it is a balance. As you say chopping and changing all the time isn’t going to work. However, neither is rigidly persisting with something that isn’t working. I think OG should have been more pragmatic with injuries and finding a formation to get results. So many times this season we’ve lined up with players clearly trying to play positions they weren’t suited for like Nketiah on the right and Kamada in central midfield.

Ultimately though I know OG will keep on sticking with the same formation and tactics. I really hope it does come good.

 

[CrazyBadger]

If it’s a choice between points and performances then it’s points every single time for me at this stage. We have to win one in three games to stay up. We’ve won one in 12.

I do hear this about OG’s methods etc but how long do we wait? He’s been in charge for 28 games. It’s not like he started in September this year.

I also hear about the luck, poor officiating etc but hand on heart how many games have we been the better team in? Spurs and that’s it really. Brentford, Wolves and Villa were fairly even but Everton (on balance), West Ham, Fulham, Forest and even Leicester all played better than us over 90 mins. So did Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd though we were fortunate to get points from the latter two. After 12 games to be saying we have only really been the best team in one game just isn’t great.

I think you are right that the board will give Glasner until Xmas and the last few games have been an improvement no doubt. I hope we can discover a run of form but we are now in a position where any further bad run could mean it is relegation as we’ve already used up most of our margin for error.

He has been in charge for 28 games, but I'd disregard last season. The Team has changed since then, as have the many injuries etc. With no preseason to speak of with a full squad, It's not about being the better team in those games, but showing progress. We may have not been the better team but we were in the position to win a few of those games, in any other season we would have converted those positions.

Interesting to hear Danny Murphy on MOTD talking about Amorim, and his favoured 343 formation, and how 'It won't work in this country'.

 

[JHB]

He has been in charge for 28 games, but I'd disregard last season. The Team has changed since then, as have the many injuries etc. With no preseason to speak of with a full squad, It's not about being the better team in those games, but showing progress. We may have not been the better team but we were in the position to win a few of those games, in any other season we would have converted those positions.

Interesting to hear Danny Murphy on MOTD talking about Amorim, and his favoured 343 formation, and how 'It won't work in this country'.

Yeah I think that is fair. He has had to integrate a few squad changes. Still think he could have been much more pragmatic but take the point about having to go again this season

 

[pssguy]

Well Cooper's avialable now. They have pursued him before. might as well add him to Nketiah and Sarr to totally doom us

 

[est1905]

I think there is more chance of having a pooh in Camila's handbag

To be fair you more or less had the same opinion about our chances of bringing anything back from Villa. A decent point that (on first half performance) could easily have been a win.

 

[NEILLO]

He has been in charge for 28 games, but I'd disregard last season. The Team has changed since then, as have the many injuries etc. With no preseason to speak of with a full squad, It's not about being the better team in those games, but showing progress. We may have not been the better team but we were in the position to win a few of those games, in any other season we would have converted those positions.

Interesting to hear Danny Murphy on MOTD talking about Amorim, and his favoured 343 formation, and how 'It won't work in this country'.

I was about to post on here about Man Utds appointment of Amorim.

He comes with an impressive record in Portuguese football and with a defined, preferred way of playing.

Post yesterdays draw with Ipswich, he said that the players are going to take a while to adjust to his ways of playing. This at a club that has far higher expectations than Palace.

To quote him ( easy to verify with a simple search, it's not buried on some far flung illegal site )

“We are going to suffer for a long period, and we will try to win games,” Amorim told his post-match press conference ''
So, this ' new ' United with the highly regarded likes of Dan Ashworth and Jason Wilcox directing the football side of the club have made an appointment not too dissimilar from ours with Glasner.

Of course Amorin inherits a squad with some excellent players. But he also has some of Ten Haags blunder buys to contend with as well.

My point being is that clubs buy into the Head Coaches methods, but have to be willing to support their man. That support is not infinite obviously.

Results will ultimately determine his fate and if he can't get back on track he will go.

But I think the right thing is to stand by the manager in this difficult period.

 

[est1905]

Its so insane to me that so many people, with no coaching badges, or experience, keep banging on about the formation.

I reckon our experienced manager may be best placed to make some of these calls.

I said the same thing many pages back and was replied to with more criticism of what he is doing.
Frankly, Glasner has forgotten more about tactics and formations than any of us will learn put together! If he is persisting with a way of playing that (some feel) doesn't suit the players he has there will be a very good reason why he is doing so. Probably a number of reasons.
I was never a fan of Roy Hodgson, though personally he's a lovely bloke but in terms of his negative style I personally couldn't wait to see him retire but I never questioned his decisions regardless of whether I was scratching my head or not. Why? Because he has 50 years coaching experience, knows what he is doing AND is on the training ground every day with the players and knows their strengths and weaknesses. The same applies with Glasner. We're all entitled to our opinion but it is a bit embarrassing when people question certain decisions he makes when they dont even have half the information.

 

[est1905]

And never change? It's actually ridiculous. He's never going to remain long in a Job if he doesn't change according to the opposition or the circumstances of his own squad.
He has already quite obviously been read by all the other Premier League managers and they will adapt accordingly.
You now wonder was our good run based on the tactics being a surprise.
The obvious point being - don't adapt, you don't win, you don't last.

Yeah, they read him like a book. Glasner is so predictable that he out thought Emery (twice) and had we had all players available would probably have won Saturday.
If he is as you say 'being read' by all the other managers you're going to need to explain why our results are getting better instead of worse?

 

[beak]

Yeah, they read him like a book. Glasner is so predictable that he out thought Emery (twice) and had we had all players available would probably have won Saturday.
If he is as you say 'being read' by all the other managers you're going to need to explain why our results are getting better instead of worse?

Not much better ,we are in the bottom two.

 

[JHB]

Yeah, they read him like a book. Glasner is so predictable that he out thought Emery (twice) and had we had all players available would probably have won Saturday.
If he is as you say 'being read' by all the other managers you're going to need to explain why our results are getting better instead of worse?

It is factually correct to say results have improved. In his first 6 League games we got 3 points. In the last 6 he’s got 5 points. That is an improvement but to be honest it is extremely marginal.

 

[ex hibitionist]

One thing in Glasner's favour is absolutely undeniable - the form of Jean Philippe Mateta pre Glasner and post Glasner is chalk and cheese - hugely improved thanks to OG, he may not be getting the Olise service to keep his goal tally up but he is playing superbly, and he never showed this level of form or consistency prior to Ollie's arrival.