Is Glasner the problem?

[NEILLO]

I am not sure he can be blamed but he is accountable for those errors being the defining factor in us losing games. When you are in the most senior position in an organisational set up you are accountable for what happens in that organisation. Ultimately if individual errors are defining games then that is OG’s accountability. Maybe not for the errors themselves but for the fact that his set up and approach means there isn’t enough good stuff happening to offset them.

I don't know what set up or approach would have prevented Chalobahs poor header, Hendersons fumble or indeed Lacroix presenting the ball to Jiminez on Saturday. Happy to be enlightened !

Any managers prime responsibility is to getting results.

When I played I didn't blame anyone but myself if I played badly. When I managed I did whatever I could to ensure my team had been prepared and set up properly. But I could do nothing to prevent individual errors on the pitch.

 

[PatrickA]

I think it’s fair to say that Glasner cannot be held responsible for the individual errors of players, but he is responsible for how the team set up and the substitutions made.

We had the warning in the home game v West Ham when he moved Kamada into a central midfield role when up to that point had been a finely balanced match.
That change contributed to West Ham controlling the midfield and winning the game.
And yet Glasner repeated the error v Fulham on Saturday.

As soon as I saw how we lined up for the second half on Saturday I thought we’d struggle in midfield and I’m not being wise after the event.
We played Kamada and a Devenny (a debutant) against Smith Rowe, Pereira, Berge and Iwobi.
Fulham had acres of space to play in and we hardly laid a glove on them in the second half and we were fortunate to keep the score down.
Some may say, with some justification, our midfield options were limited.
However, Guehi did a sound job in the first half in midfield providing a competitive edge and denying Fulham the space to play.
We did not need 3 central defenders to play against one striker , Jiminez, and it gave Fulham even more space in midfield as we lacked manpower in there.

Against Forest , Glasner at one stage had Munoz at LWB and Schlupp at RWB.
Bizarre and without any apparent logic.

For Glasner’s system to succeed I believe that we have to have our pressing game on song (as v Spurs).
If we don’t, as has been the case for nearly every game this season, we will continue to be bypassed in midfield with our defenders exposed.
It sometimes feels as if Glasner’s approach, and lack of flexibility, is largely theory based and not based on the reality of what is happening on the field.

 

[JHB]

What nonsense. If, for example OG has his designated penalty taker and thus far the taker has a 100% conversion record, how can OG be accountable if the opposition keeper makes an amazing save for the next one?

Maybe I’m not being clear I which case I apologise. I am saying he is ultimately accountable for what happens on the pitch. If we were talking about one error costing us one game of course you can’t blame him. However, we have 7 points from 11 games. That is the manager’s accountability otherwise what’s the point in having a manager.

As I say if you look in reverse do you also give him no credit for us taking our chances in the final games last season?

 

[Den1923]

IMO, it is wrong to blame the manager for the current difficulties, yes he is of course responsible for team set up and tactics but if you have a very thin squad and huge injury crises then the manager is limited to what he can do. It's clear that our recruitment has not been the best over a period of time, yes there have been some successes but also some failures. In the recent past several, now very high performing players in the EPL have been linked to this club but for some reason they always seem to end up elsewhere. The reason for the latter, we do not know but somewhere our ability to convince players to come here is somewhat questionable. Why an earth did we waste money on players like Franca, who only contribution to this club so far is to keep the injury table warm and the return on the reported 20mil we supposedly paid for him has been poor to say the least. The modern day game requires 16 fit players for each game with the five on the bench who are of such quality that can come in and make a difference, too often our bench included unproven academy players who may or not make it and a couple of GK's, how can any those really change either the tactical side or the outcome of a game. Until the club and its owners solve the problems in the boardroom, the club is always going to be in danger of relegation. Under the current rulers, succession planning is always going to be difficult as the main agenda for sometime now, seems to be how can I get out of this club making future team investment very difficult. I do hope we can survive this crises with the current manager as he seems a capable coach but it is very clear we do need to give him more tools!

 

[JHB]

I don't know what set up or approach would have prevented Chalobahs poor header, Hendersons fumble or indeed Lacroix presenting the ball to Jiminez on Saturday. Happy to be enlightened !

Any managers prime responsibility is to getting results.

When I played I didn't blame anyone but myself if I played badly. When I managed I did whatever I could to ensure my team had been prepared and set up properly. But I could do nothing to prevent individual errors on the pitch.

Firstly errors don’t happen in a vacuum. They happen due to many reasons, yes bad luck but also players being asked to do things they can’t, play out of position, being left exposed, lacking confidence, opposition tactics forcing mistakes. Those are all things it is the manager’s job to influence.

Second, those errors are costing us games because we aren’t doing a lot of good things. Take the Henderson error at Forest. Ok a goalkeeper makes a mistake. Do you blame the manager? No. Do you blame the manager for the fact we then offered very little to get back into the game. Yes.

I think I am also perhaps not being clear enough about the difference between accountability and blame. Accountability means the buck stops with you. If your team keeps making daft errors that mean you lose games then as a manager you are accountable. The errors themselves might not be your fault but you are accountable for what your team does.

It’s like a workplace. If one person hurts themselves in your workplace you as the manager probably won’t be blamed. If people keep on hurting themselves you as the manager will be held accountable and be expected to take steps to prevent it.

 

[park the bus]

Maybe I’m not being clear I which case I apologise. I am saying he is ultimately accountable for what happens on the pitch. If we were talking about one error costing us one game of course you can’t blame him. However, we have 7 points from 11 games. That is the manager’s accountability otherwise what’s the point in having a manager.

As I say if you look in reverse do you also give him no credit for us taking our chances in the final games last season?

It is down to the players to take ownership of the game once they step onto the pitch. The manager will have done his best to organize and motivate them according to his particular tactical philosophy. Perhaps it is with this detail that currently things do not align. Does Glasner's football philosophy align with the players at his disposal? Can he delve into Glasball, a variant of Royball and Patball? Surely Parish would have understood Glasner's philosophy when he hired him? My opinion is that Parish has sold all of his managers short.

 

[JHB]

It is down to the players to take ownership of the game once they step onto the pitch. The manager will have done his best to organize and motivate them according to his particular tactical philosophy. Perhaps it is with this detail that currently things do not align. Does Glasner's football philosophy align with the players at his disposal? Can he delve into Glasball, a variant of Royball and Patball? Surely Parish would have understood Glasner's philosophy when he hired him? My opinion is that Parish has sold all of his managers short.

I absolutely agree that players need to take accountability for their performance. I also think the manager needs to take accountability for how the team as a whole performs. I also don’t think the manager is absolved of accountability once the game kicks off. It’s his job to adapt, tweak tactics, respond to what is happening, make substitutions.

On Saturday OG was limited in the squad he had to pick from but his changes for the second half made things worse, not better. He needs to take accountability for that as I am sure he has.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Its simple the longer Glasner stays as manager with his pathetic "I'll play this formation no matter what" the quicker we are heading for relegation, that statement on its own deserves the sack, i think Rome and Nero sum up the Board. it will not change until he goes.

 

[Putitout]

IMO, it is wrong to blame the manager for the current difficulties, yes he is of course responsible for team set up and tactics but if you have a very thin squad and huge injury crises then the manager is limited to what he can do. It's clear that our recruitment has not been the best over a period of time, yes there have been some successes but also some failures. In the recent past several, now very high performing players in the EPL have been linked to this club but for some reason they always seem to end up elsewhere. The reason for the latter, we do not know but somewhere our ability to convince players to come here is somewhat questionable. Why an earth did we waste money on players like Franca, who only contribution to this club so far is to keep the injury table warm and the return on the reported 20mil we supposedly paid for him has been poor to say the least. The modern day game requires 16 fit players for each game with the five on the bench who are of such quality that can come in and make a difference, too often our bench included unproven academy players who may or not make it and a couple of GK's, how can any those really change either the tactical side or the outcome of a game. Until the club and its owners solve the problems in the boardroom, the club is always going to be in danger of relegation. Under the current rulers, succession planning is always going to be difficult as the main agenda for sometime now, seems to be how can I get out of this club making future team investment very difficult. I do hope we can survive this crises with the current manager as he seems a capable coach but it is very clear we do need to give him more tools!

Agree with this. If OG has become a problem, as he wasn’t one last season, then he is one problem amongst many.
Injuries are always a curse for any manager, ask Pep. Right now injuries are preventing our team from progressing. But it’s not the only problem, recruitment this past summer was poor by most measures, the performance levels for most of those coming in has not reached required heights,most regular supporters know that full well. No matter the recruitment, the loss of Olise, was a massive blow which could not be avoided, even allowing for their critics allowing Edourd, and Ayew, along with Andersen, out of the door could now be seen as a mistake .
If he can not get the squad fit again on a regular basis , and the new signings contributing above present levels OG will struggle only a backs to the wall type would appear to cope better. We have all seen plenty of that. But it can come together and if so OG is the right man.

 

[taylors lovechild]

I get it. I do. However can you point to anything OG has done to adapt to the situation ? He’s continued playing the same failing tactics. Ultimately the reason he is earning millions of pounds is to come up with solutions to help. He isn’t at the moment.

I also know we’ve had some bad luck but we have also had good luck as well. On another day Chelsea, Man Utd and Wolves would all have out four past us.

Against Spurs he got us pressing high, closing down space quickly and not allowing them time to build attacks. Against Villa and Wolves he gave Munoz more freedom to press high. In all three (Spuds, Villa, Wolves) the back three took it in turns to push forward into midfield to get us moving forwards rather than sideways and backwards. His tactics started working again. It was all looking like we'd turned a corner and then our entire midfield disappeared. I do think he's made some strange decisions and has shown too much loyalty to Kamada, but I also think fans are too trigger happy these days. We can't ever hope to achieve anything other than avoiding relegation if we just sack a manager every time there's a bad run. I see a team who want to win for their manager and for various reasons it just isn't working right now.

 

[Willo]

Let's imagine come Xmas Palace are still in the relegation zone, having only picked up a few points on the way. What to do? Parish has a choice - sack Glasner and bring the next poor mug in, give him some funds to bring in a few players to bolster the squad.
Or - retain Glasner and give him some funds to bring in a few players to bolster the squad.
And then hope that it's enough and fortunes change.
My question is, who should take over should Glasner depart? Plenty of criticism of Glasner on this thread but no alternatives offered. As far as I can tell some posters are hinting at Moyes but they can't bring themselves to say it out loud...

In the scenario whereby Glasner is in situ at Christmas with our team firmly rooted in the 'Relegation Zone ' after some abject results, it is the model of plausibility that he will be shown the door and replaced with an experienced PL manager.

 

[park the bus]

In the scenario whereby Glasner is in situ at Christmas with our team firmly rooted in the 'Relegation Zone ' after some abject results, it is the model of plausibility that he will be shown the door and replaced with an experienced PL manager.

And who might that be? Go on, say it, you know you want to...

 

[ASCPFC]

In the scenario whereby Glasner is in situ at Christmas with our team firmly rooted in the 'Relegation Zone ' after some abject results, it is the model of plausibility that he will be shown the door and replaced with an experienced PL manager.

I don't see Glasner getting the push before he walks. If the club really wants him, they would be discussing who's coming in as soon as the January window opens. However, we all know us - it'll be a goalie and a surprise (centre back?) on the very last day of the window. Edouard will have supposedly been recalled, which will be code for having been literally kicked out by his loan club. His locker emptied and his apartment boarded up. The locks changed on the training ground and player's entrance.

 

[Willo]

And who might that be? Go on, say it, you know you want to...

This will be a matter for the owners to decide.
Availability of the individual and whether that person has a desire to fight a relegation battle will enter the equation.

 

[CrazyBadger]

The only thing I can seriously Level at OG is that he has Failed to stop us conceeding goals. the Defence has only kept a clean sheet against TenHaags ManU and Dr Spurs. (been listening to too much Talksh1t, obvs) both of which don't count 😉 - We look as though any team will score against us. Our Defence was beginning to gel, with ML moving centrally seemingly the catalyst. He joined late in the window, and due to Riad's injury(on top of Richards), was thrown into the defence possibly too early, hence why he wasn't 'trusted' centrally initially.

Our Summer business, and their timings have mean that Nketiah/Sarr and Lacroix have not had long with the team, and relying on new signings to hit the ground running is unrealistic. Although, as has been mentioned we we're just starting to see them beginning to play (vs Spurs and Wolves).
Not gonna mention Kamada, he's an enigma. in the wrong way.

We've continued to gather injuries and have now lost our whole midfield. Doucoure is possibly 6 months from getting back to where he was, and we've had to break our slowly improving Back 3 up to strengthen the midfield.

Not sure what anyone else would do with this, other than put 10 on the goal line.

The Fulham game was always gonna be tough with our available players squad. OG has stuck to his guns, and tried to play his football. He actually introduced 2 academy youngsters vs Fulham; something that people on here were desperate to see in previous years. Devenny starting must send a great message to the academy hopefuls that there's a chance of a shot at the first team.

So in summary, all while he's trying to implement his style on this team; he's had a crap*y disjointed preseason, with his stars not getting a well deserved rest. He's had a constantly growing injury list of important, pivotal players.
And alongside some frankly quite absurd var decisions costing us points - from offsides to 50/50s and penalty/red card decisions going against us someone gets injured and there's a setback.

Will he turn it around? - Can he turn it around? Can anyone turn this around?

I think he can and will. but he needs players back playing, and games are already starting to slip away. Whether it'll be too little too late, only time will tell.

 

[ASCPFC]

And who might that be? Go on, say it, you know you want to...

Moyes is the obvious choice.

 

[NEILLO]

I absolutely agree that players need to take accountability for their performance. I also think the manager needs to take accountability for how the team as a whole performs. I also don’t think the manager is absolved of accountability once the game kicks off. It’s his job to adapt, tweak tactics, respond to what is happening, make substitutions.

On Saturday OG was limited in the squad he had to pick from but his changes for the second half made things worse, not better. He needs to take accountability for that as I am sure he has.

We were getting overrun in midfield. Taking Clyne off and bringing Doucoure on to stem the tide didn't make any significant difference but you said yourself, his options are limited. He brought Schlupp on for a kid making his debut. A kid that did ok when you consider the lack of specialised help he had from his team mates. I think the subs made sense but obviously they don't always come off.

That was the first game this season in which we got what we deserved. And it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

 

[JHB]

We were getting overrun in midfield. Taking Clyne off and bringing Doucoure on to stem the tide didn't make any significant difference but you said yourself, his options are limited. He brought Schlupp on for a kid making his debut. A kid that did ok when you consider the lack of specialised help he had from his team mates. I think the subs made sense but obviously they don't always come off.

That was the first game this season in which we got what we deserved. And it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

He also moved Kamada to midfield which didn’t help but I take your point Saturday was going to be difficult out whatever we did. Where I do disagree is that this is the first game we’ve got what we deserved. There has only been one league game out of 11 where we were definitely the better team and that was against Spurs. Brentford and Wolves were pretty even. Other than that we’ve been outplayed.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

I don't think Glasner is the problem. I don't think any manager(even Roy) would have got a result against Fulham with the squad we had available. We will suffer until our first team players are fit again and if we get an injury free spell we should get enough points to stay up.

I agree, I think we all know in recent years if we can put our best side out we’re a decent premier league team who can beat anyone on our day whoever our gaffer is. BUT once we’ve got a few players out we’re buggered and can look pretty toothless and disjointed because of our lack of squad depth

 

[park the bus]

He also moved Kamada to midfield which didn’t help but I take your point Saturday was going to be difficult out whatever we did. Where I do disagree is that this is the first game we’ve got what we deserved. There has only been one league game out of 11 where we were definitely the better team and that was against Spurs. Brentford and Wolves were pretty even. Other than that we’ve been outplayed.

We were outplayed because, frankly, we're not that good, particularly so when injuries come into the equation. One can't sell the best players, replace them here and there with a few mediocrities and hope that the sum result is going to be better. The table doesn't lie.
It's going to be a long hard season.