Immigration

[Stirlingsays]

What are you going on about? The guy suggested some things he wanted to achieve. All I did was point out where they might be found.

Nothing to do with me. Or you for that matter!

In fact Wisbech had a large number of immigrants during my time there. Mostly from Eastern Europe. Polish, Latvians, Estonians and Russian with fake Latvian and Estonian passports. I well remember the Russian grocery store which always had young men outside in tight leather jackets looking tough. There were murders in the town too, involving that community.

The Polish people were nevertheless some of the hardest working, well educated and polite I have ever known. Paid bills on time, kept everything spotless and had well behaved happy children.

I moved away from London 60 years ago and have lived in, and experienced, many environments and cultures since. Where, and why, I choose to spend my declining years is none of your business.

Yes it is because it writes large the utter double standards of your positions.

As for your comments on immigration into Wisbech, I would ride that back a bit because I think what you say there is reasonably accurate....You were obviously here while the Eastern European immigration was still happening....However, while I think Wisbech was swamped, with the immigration considerably overdone and hence not a positive, that form of immigration is less harmful to the country socially and economically.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You say 'many', what's your evidence for this 'many' claim? Also the same question in regards to not receiving any public funds at all.

Anyone on a visitor’s visa cannot work or receive access to public funds. Their sponsor has to undertake responsibility for all their expenses whilst here. The same applies to those on family visas, during the initial periods. That applies to souses, partners, fiancés, children or dependents. Students can work, but are limited to 20 hours per week.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Anyone on a visitor’s visa cannot work or receive access to public funds. Their sponsor has to undertake responsibility for all their expenses whilst here. The same applies to those on family visas, during the initial periods. That applies to souses, partners, fiancés, children or dependents. Students can work, but are limited to 20 hours per week.

It's important you get 'challenged' on these comments.

Visitor visas are usually short term not generally considered to be immigrants so you are deliberately mixing in a rule that covers many types of people.

As for students, that would fit in precisely with the statistics I gave earlier.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Yes it is because it writes large the utter double standards of your positions.

As for your comments on immigration into Wisbech, I would ride that back a bit because I think what you say there is reasonably accurate....You were obviously here while the Eastern European immigration was still happening....However, while I think Wisbech was swamped, with the immigration considerably overdone and hence not a positive, that form of immigration is less harmful to the country socially and economically.

It’s your hypocrisy which is written large!

I have seen, and lived amongst, much worse deprivation during my time than can find anywhere in the London area. I don’t need to be in it now to know how debilitating it can be, or what the solutions might be. I also know that with the right attitudes life can still be very satisfying.

You choose to criticise me whilst living somewhere I also lived, so know. It isn’t nearly as nice as Cornwall, but it is also not nearly as deprived as other places I have lived in. You too could move back to London as you also don’t appear to work. I am 80 so no longer earn a salary or run a business, and have cancer, but I still work from time to time. I now have no family ties to London. In fact I have more here. Why would I go to live in London? To satisfy your weird obsessions?

You could though. Why don’t you?

Your comment on “that” form of immigration being less harmful is revealing, if unsurprising. You mean those people look like you and mostly have a similar religion to you!

Our current immigration is primarily from Africa and Asia. Which is helping us economically and unlikely to harm us socially, over time. They don’t look like you though.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It’s your hypocrisy which is written large!

I have seen, and lived amongst, much worse deprivation during my time than can find anywhere in the London area. I don’t need to be in it now to know how debilitating it can be, or what the solutions might be. I also know that with the right attitudes life can still be very satisfying.

You choose to criticise me whilst living somewhere I also lived, so know. It isn’t nearly as nice as Cornwall, but it is also not nearly as deprived as other places I have lived in. You too could move back to London as you also don’t appear to work. I am 80 so no longer earn a salary or run a business, and have cancer, but I still work from time to time. I now have no family ties to London. In fact I have more here. Why would I go to live in London? To satisfy your weird obsessions?

You could though. Why don’t you?

Your comment on “that” form of immigration being less harmful is revealing, if unsurprising. You mean those people look like you and mostly have a similar religion to you!

Our current immigration is primarily from Africa and Asia. Which is helping us economically and unlikely to harm us socially, over time. They don’t look like you though.

I do criticize you because the double standard in your principles is literally written large in your locations.....actions talk louder than dishonest words....Mr ex marketing manager.

Sure I don't think it would be sensible for you to move to inner London for several reasons, some of which you mention, however as you are directly responsible for supporting the politics that turned these places into their high crime, low social cohesion and lower economic places that they now represent you don't get to escape criticism on here.

As for the text I highlight, I do work, I'm not unemployed.

My comment on certain forms of immigration being less harmful is revealing? Errr, it's more than revealing, it's factual, and as the stats showed earlier, easily demonstrated.

 

[Spiderman]

Many immigrants are not allowed to work by the terms of their visa. Nor are allowed access to public funds and have to pay the NHS surcharge on top of the visa fee.

Not sure this is true for visit visas, but I may be wrong. Of course, non-visa nationals do not pay this surcharge and all treatment deemed emergency is not charged

 

[Spiderman]

Anyone on a visitor’s visa cannot work or receive access to public funds. Their sponsor has to undertake responsibility for all their expenses whilst here. The same applies to those on family visas, during the initial periods. That applies to souses, partners, fiancés, children or dependents. Students can work, but are limited to 20 hours per week.

But of course, EU nationals were exempt from all these requirements and EU family permits were gratis. A Brexit benefit!

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the activist left wing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893562172019454213

 

[Foxy82]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the activist left wing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893562172019454213

Juicy 🤣
And some wonder why there is such an increase in the 'far right'!

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It's important you get 'challenged' on these comments.

Visitor visas are usually short term not generally considered to be immigrants so you are deliberately mixing in a rule that covers many types of people.

As for students, that would fit in precisely with the statistics I gave earlier.

That those on standard 6 month visitor visas are not recorded in immigration statistics might be true but that doesn’t stop people with the kind of prejudices you display thinking they can access public services whilst here.

Longer term family visas, which you ignore, only allow work after a qualifying period and another, very expensive, visa renewal.

Foreign students bring in revenue through the tuition fees they pay. Fees that are significantly higher than those for “home” students who are entitled to loans as well. Working 20 hours on top of their studies to help pay for accommodation and living costs is hardly unreasonable.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I do criticize you because the double standard in your principles is literally written large in your locations.....actions talk louder than dishonest words....Mr ex marketing manager.

Sure I don't think it would be sensible for you to move to inner London for several reasons, some of which you mention, however as you are directly responsible for supporting the politics that turned these places into their high crime, low social cohesion and lower economic places that they now represent you don't get to escape criticism on here.

As for the text I highlight, I do work, I'm not unemployed.

My comment on certain forms of immigration being less harmful is revealing? Errr, it's more than revealing, it's factual, and as the stats showed earlier, easily demonstrated.

I could write a book of criticism about your attitudes and those you mimic. No point though as so few take it seriously it would only sell a handful of copies.

There are no double standards involved in deciding to live somewhere I love and not somewhere I left 60 years ago. Having left Devon, Gloucestershire, Warwickshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire and the Philippines since there’s an awful lot of places I no longer live in, but have some experience of. You choose what you love, alongside family considerations and affordability. None of which stops you being able to observe, think and make comments.

Your assertion that the policies I support have turned “these places” into areas of high crime is transparent nonsense. I used to visit Whitechapel and the docklands area when the Krays ruled the turf. The Richardson's ruled south London. Some folk appear to have very selective memories. Low social cohesion does exist but the blame for that can be put on every government I have lived under not doing nearly enough to overcome it. People like you would do less. People like me would do much more. So whom to blame now? Those who would allow it to get worse or those who want it to get better?

If you are employed then you must work the oddest hours because there are very few times, day or night, when we can reliably expect to be free of your pontification.

That you make assertions on selected statistics presented without context demonstrates nothing other than your capacity to mimic the Daily Mail. Something I wouldn’t be too proud of myself.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Not sure this is true for visit visas, but I may be wrong. Of course, non-visa nationals do not pay this surcharge and all treatment deemed emergency is not charged

I think it varies a lot. Some categories of people are allowed free treatment, including those with reciprocal agreements for our citizens. Which includes the EU. Every travelling there from here ought to get an EHIC card, as visitors to us from there do. All emergency treatment is indeed free. Others though must pay for any treatment they receive, although not every NHS unit is really up to speed on it. Some being so busy it’s easier and quicker to write a prescription than also completing a long form.

Family visas certainly must pay quite a chunky surcharge on top of very substantial fees.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

But of course, EU nationals were exempt from all these requirements and EU family permits were gratis. A Brexit benefit!

As we were and both still effectively are.

So no Brexit benefit.

 

[Stirlingsays]

That those on standard 6 month visitor visas are not recorded in immigration statistics might be true but that doesn’t stop people with the kind of prejudices you display thinking they can access public services whilst here.

Longer term family visas, which you ignore, only allow work after a qualifying period and another, very expensive, visa renewal.

Foreign students bring in revenue through the tuition fees they pay. Fees that are significantly higher than those for “home” students who are entitled to loans as well. Working 20 hours on top of their studies to help pay for accommodation and living costs is hardly unreasonable.

You put misinformation on this forum and tried to get away with it....different day, same wacko.

You were 'challenged' and exposed and you don't like it. Teddy normally rips you a new one and I'm just come back temporarily to throw pies at the Hol clown.

Tough cheese landlord.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I could write a book of criticism about your attitudes and those you mimic. No point though as so few take it seriously it would only sell a handful of copies.

You write a book's worth about every three weeks on this forum.....it tops the best bedwetter list.

Your assertion that the policies I support have turned “these places” into areas of high crime is transparent nonsense. I used to visit Whitechapel and the docklands area when the Krays ruled the turf. The Richardson's ruled south London. Some folk appear to have very selective memories. Low social cohesion does exist but the blame for that can be put on every government I have lived under not doing nearly enough to overcome it. People like you would do less. People like me would do much more. So whom to blame now? Those who would allow it to get worse or those who want it to get better?

Errrr....Anyone who suggests that the violent crime rates in London in the 1950s and 1960s was even close to the rates now needs to move to Cornwall and become a landlord after a career lying in marketing because they have less sense of reality than a Disney movie.

If you are employed then you must work the oddest hours because there are very few times, day or night, when we can reliably expect to be free of your pontification.

Well I am and if you wish to be free of my observations then post elsewhere. Makes no difference to me Corny.

That you make assertions on selected statistics presented without context demonstrates nothing other than your capacity to mimic the Daily Mail. Something I wouldn’t be too proud of myself.

You were the one presenting misinformation and trying to mislead people Mr Marketer.....old habits die hard eh.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You write a book's worth about every three weeks on this forum.....it tops the best bedwetter list.



Errrr....Anyone who suggests that the violent crime rates in London in the 1950s and 1960s was even close to the rates now needs to move to Cornwall and become a landlord after a career lying in marketing because they have less sense of reality than a Disney movie.



Well I am and if you wish to be free of my observations then post elsewhere. Makes no difference to me Corny.



You were the one presenting misinformation and trying to mislead people Mr Marketer.....old habits die hard eh.

Were you living in London in the 50s and 60s? The population was smaller and there wasn’t, so far as I recall, the level of knife crime we see today, but it was still a scary place. I am not sure that the statistics were even recorded back then and I am quite sure not in the same way or detail.

Why this obsession with marketing being some kind of disreputable career is extremely strange. It just isn’t. It’s an essential part of any market economy like ours. Despite the attitude of the ignorant it has zilch to do with tricking people into buying things they don’t want, but everything to do with making sure businesses provide things that people need.

Exactly what do you assert was misinformation? There was none. Any follow up merely being to try to add context and detail as it is understood by me. I have no wish, intention or motivation to mislead. Nor does any respectable marketer, who purpose is to inform with clarity.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You put misinformation on this forum and tried to get away with it....different day, same wacko.

You were 'challenged' and exposed and you don't like it. Teddy normally rips you a new one and I'm just come back temporarily to throw pies at the Hol clown.

Tough cheese landlord.

I’ve dealt with the nonsensical “misinformation” assertion elsewhere.

I have no problem whatsoever being challenged on anything. I do have a problem with someone falsely claiming to have exposed something when the truth is the only thing being revealed is their own prejudice.

Teddy is more than capable of speaking for himself. We often have some banter, which can go on too long and get tedious, but neither tries to “rip a new one” on the other. Teddy is respectful and courteous, even if we disagree. Quite unlike the know it all tone you adopt, not just with me but with anyone who pricks holes in that enormous balloon full of hypocrisy that you parade every here day. Insults from you are regarded as a trophy to be celebrated. They demonstrate that your thin skin has been ruffled. Something I know others share.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Nothing new or revolutionary in that. The process just continues. Some take longer to become us, there are waves that are larger and troughs that are lower.

There are also always those who see it as the finish of the society they are part of.

So it's a never ending situation.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

It is no more representative than anywhere else. It has many more immigrants than you might imagine though. Studying and working.

The majority here are English. Born outside of Cornwall. Referred to here as incomers. Those who chose to live here, often as retirees.

No cultural differences then and retirees aren't taking any jobs.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I’ve dealt with the nonsensical “misinformation” assertion elsewhere.

I have no problem whatsoever being challenged on anything. I do have a problem with someone falsely claiming to have exposed something when the truth is the only thing being revealed is their own prejudice.

Teddy is more than capable of speaking for himself. We often have some banter, which can go on too long and get tedious, but neither tries to “rip a new one” on the other. Teddy is respectful and courteous, even if we disagree. Quite unlike the know it all tone you adopt, not just with me but with anyone who pricks holes in that enormous balloon full of hypocrisy that you parade every here day. Insults from you are regarded as a trophy to be celebrated. They demonstrate that your thin skin has been ruffled. Something I know others share.

What I revealed were the statistics on employment between born British and immigrants, as you seem obsessed with employment for a white there. Then after I revealed easy to find statistics you misinformed by suggesting this figure was the result of 'many' immigrants being on visitor visas, when those on them aren't normally even considered to be immigrants.

Then you say that providing 'context' by waffling about outcomes that don't even support your original contention of 'many' that this was not misinformation.



Those immigrants who can work are placed onto work visas or student visas would obviously be shown in the original statistics via the #275 post. As correctly and originally stated they are less productive for the country than those native born....especially non Europeans who, as a collective, are proven to take out more economically than they contribute.

As for your preference for interactions with Teddy, that's cool, I don't have his patience and tact so don't worry....my blood pressure will limit our interactions.