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Grooming gangs

DANGERCLOSE said:
We need accountability stop trying to defend them

We need reform
Click to expand...
There’s been accountability! We held a lengthy detailed enquiry that looked at everything and made recommendations. If any disciplinary action was though to be appropriate then it would been identified by that enquiry.

I am sure you know that “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

What is needed is the implementation of those recommendations. Not another enquiry which would delay things and produce the same results.

Throwing political mud is not beneficial to anyone, but especially to the victims, either those in the past or the potential future ones.
 
He is on my ignore list but only when I log in - doh!
The previous 400 page enquiry mentioned the word Pakistani once, it mentioned Rotherham once, it had no victim statements, it left out two thirds of Maggie Oliver's statement.
Great enquiry Wisbech. Very thorough.
Corruption is rife and the sick perverts and everyone else involved need finding, exposing and jailing and your excuses for them make you almost complicit - take that however you want!!!!!
 
The Dolphin said:
He is on my ignore list but only when I log in - doh!
The previous 400 page enquiry mentioned the word Pakistani once, it mentioned Rotherham once, it had no victim statements, it left out two thirds of Maggie Oliver's statement.
Great enquiry Wisbech. Very thorough.
Corruption is rife and the sick perverts and everyone else involved need finding, exposing and jailing and your excuses for them make you almost complicit - take that however you want!!!!!
Click to expand...
So now you attack the way the enquiry report was presented! Great! Final reports are known to use careful language. The last thing they need is action being taken for libel so the lawyers would have been all over it.

What matters is how it was conducted and what it recommended.

I love the way those who were not involved involved in any way in a lengthy enquiry, think they know better. Musk, you and others here included. Suggesting, without a shred of evidence, that “corruption is rife” is disgraceful. It’s worthy of Musk himself.

Of course the sick perverts need finding, exposing and jailing but the current political circus will do nothing to assist that. It’s diverting attention from the task.
 
Listened to a very interesting piece on the radio this morning and well done - for once - for Talk TV having someone on who disagreed with their narrative.
She is a Barrister - Miss or Mrs Butler - who represented some victims.
She agrees in part with Starmer, in that another enquiry is not what is needed.
She said that a more recent report from an enquiry was a waste of time - suspect that is the one I mentioned in another post.
She says that the recommendations from the Jay report need to be implemented and that another full scale investigation needs to be started to get to the vile bottom of everyone involved.
She also said that the way to do it is through the victims - who on many occasions were ignored by the Police.
I guess if they get to enough of them, then it will snowball and they might at last get to more perpetrators and facilitators - if Starmer does that today then that would be excellent - I am not holding my breath though.
This is a good timeline from SKY - it explains it all very well.
news.sky.com

Grooming gangs scandal timeline: What happened, what inquiries there were and how Starmer was involved - after Elon Musk's accusations

Sir Keir was head of the Crown Prosecution Service for five years when grooming gangs were being investigated.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
The Dolphin said:
Listened to a very interesting piece on the radio this morning and well done - for once - for Talk TV having someone on who disagreed with their narrative.
She is a Barrister - Miss or Mrs Butler - who represented some victims.
She agrees in part with Starmer, in that another enquiry is not what is needed.
She said that a more recent report from an enquiry was a waste of time - suspect that is the one I mentioned in another post.
She says that the recommendations from the Jay report need to be implemented and that another full scale investigation needs to be started to get to the vile bottom of everyone involved.
She also said that the way to do it is through the victims - who on many occasions were ignored by the Police.
I guess if they get to enough of them, then it will snowball and they might at last get to more perpetrators and facilitators - if Starmer does that today then that would be excellent - I am not holding my breath though.
This is a good timeline from SKY - it explains it all very well.
news.sky.com

Grooming gangs scandal timeline: What happened, what inquiries there were and how Starmer was involved - after Elon Musk's accusations

Sir Keir was head of the Crown Prosecution Service for five years when grooming gangs were being investigated.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
Click to expand...
That’s a fair summary from Sky.

Of course anyone at all who actually “facilitated” the abuse is as culpable as those who carried it out. I am perfectly sure that anyone suspected of doing that will have been investigated and, if evidence exists, brought to justice.

That though does not include those who were responsible for the early responses and tactics for dealing with an initially poorly understood, and growing, problem. That this was subsequently seen to have failed and alternative tactics developed doesn’t alter that. They did what they believed was right at the time.

Accusing such people of being “facilitators” is pure politics. Its purpose being to disrupt and distract. Not to help deal with the actual issue in any way.

Some people believe Farage (and now Jenrick) are racists who ought to be jailed for incitement. In the past others wanted to jail Thatcher and Corbyn for things they had said. I disagree with some, or all, of the politics of all of those people but I don’t want them jailed. They haven’t broken the law, they just have different opinions to me.

The same applies to anyone who determines policy. You can passionately disagree with it, and make sure any failures are learned from, but not waste time and effort suggesting legal actions that, rightly, would never succeed.

In the US Trump wasn’t prosecuted for his political approach. He was prosecuted for illegal acts.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
So now you attack the way the enquiry report was presented! Great! Final reports are known to use careful language. The last thing they need is action being taken for libel so the lawyers would have been all over it.

What matters is how it was conducted and what it recommended.

I love the way those who were not involved involved in any way in a lengthy enquiry, think they know better. Musk, you and others here included. Suggesting, without a shred of evidence, that “corruption is rife” is disgraceful. It’s worthy of Musk himself.

Of course the sick perverts need finding, exposing and jailing but the current political circus will do nothing to assist that. It’s diverting attention from the task.
Click to expand...
Of course the sick perverts could/should have been found, exposed and jailed years ago, the problem was the victims were ignored…. Fact
 
Spiderman said:
Of course the sick perverts could/should have been found, exposed and jailed years ago, the problem was the victims were ignored…. Fact
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I'm not sure why there is suddenly this outrage that victims were ignored, they have essentially been ignored all their lives. These kids are by definition vulnerable, often coming from broken homes or being in care. Their backgrounds are often shocking. I work for a kids charity and part of what we do includes running children residential homes. Many of these kids are being looked after as their parent(s) have rejected them, are unable to care for them or are in jail etc.

Unfortunately some people exploit vulnerable people mainly as they are rarely believed if they do speak out.

These gangs are terrible and it has been going on for years. The Derby case in 2010 showed how the gangs targeted girls walking home form school so we know how they operate.

However, i am not sure what a further inquiry will achieve.
Also, let's be honest the grooming gangs are less than 5% of child abuse cases in the UK so let's not forget that the majority of abuse is being undertaken by people close to the victim e.g. family members etc.

Supposedly the 20 recommendations from the 2022 inquiry have yet to be introduced. That seems to be a sensible starting point IMHO

www.bbc.co.uk

Child sexual abuse inquiry chair Alexis Jay urges government to act

A campaign group led by Prof Alexis Jay also warns against "politicising" sexual violence.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
The Dolphin said:
He is on my ignore list but only when I log in - doh!
The previous 400 page enquiry mentioned the word Pakistani once, it mentioned Rotherham once, it had no victim statements, it left out two thirds of Maggie Oliver's statement.
Great enquiry Wisbech. Very thorough.
Corruption is rife and the sick perverts and everyone else involved need finding, exposing and jailing and your excuses for them make you almost complicit - take that however you want!!!!!
Click to expand...

It appears that the various police forces didn't capture the ethnicity of the accused so had no records to supply to the initial enquiry.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
 
Spiderman said:
Of course the sick perverts could/should have been found, exposed and jailed years ago, the problem was the victims were ignored…. Fact
Click to expand...
It just isn't a fact. At best it's an opinion.

If someone in good faith believed that the best way to handle something that subsequently was found to be much worse than they thought at the time, was first to try to improve community relations then that wasn't ignoring the victims. It was trying to help them indirectly. With hindsight that might look crazy but we all know that many things do.

Believing that indirect action can ultimately produce better outcomes is not unusual. It also doesn't mean that victims are ignored and they weren't, even in the early stages. Over-stretched and under-resourced social services did intervene and rehome some of them but as the problem escalated and knowledge of it increased so did the responses to it. If criticism is due, it is best directed at those who underfunded the social services for it is their job to help the victims.

We all make mistakes. Do we all need to be jailed as a consequence, or should we learn and improve?
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Ethnicity not being a crime that's unsurprising.

Child abuse is the crime. Criminals commit crimes. Not ethnicities.
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So it wouldn't have helped speed up enquiries if they'd been concentrated on certain parts of the population.
It's been said before but if there was a spate of robberies being carried out by tall ginger haired men how many short blonde women should be interviewed?
 
NMPalace said:
It appears that the various police forces didn't capture the ethnicity of the accused so had no records to supply to the initial enquiry.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
Click to expand...
I don’t doubt that is correct, but surely the question must be why didn’t they?
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It just isn't a fact. At best it's an opinion.

If someone in good faith believed that the best way to handle something that subsequently was found to be much worse than they thought at the time, was first to try to improve community relations then that wasn't ignoring the victims. It was trying to help them indirectly. With hindsight that might look crazy but we all know that many things do.

Believing that indirect action can ultimately produce better outcomes is not unusual. It also doesn't mean that victims are ignored and they weren't, even in the early stages. Over-stretched and under-resourced social services did intervene and rehome some of them but as the problem escalated and knowledge of it increased so did the responses to it. If criticism is due, it is best directed at those who underfunded the social services for it is their job to help the victims.

We all make mistakes. Do we all need to be jailed as a consequence, or should we learn and improve?
Click to expand...
Mistakes! Try telling that to the victims. So improving community relations was more important than dealing with the main issue? At last!
 
NMPalace said:
It appears that the various police forces didn't capture the ethnicity of the accused so had no records to supply to the initial enquiry.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
Click to expand...

I can't quite believe you wrote that and then had a whinge at Dolphin.

Apparently Police can cover something up....unless you're being ridiculous enough to believe that the Police don't record someone's ethnicity in cases.....and then moan at the person highlighting how a report has allowed a deliberate re-focus away from racial and culture issues at the heart of why these attacks occurred because the Police haven't given them the data.

Smacks of complicity within the whole system to me.
 
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