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Wolf Hall

ASCPFC said:
The Natal Natives had white officers - who largely tried to avoid Rorke's Drift. To clarify what I said. Can you blame them? There was one who tried shooting his men I believe but as far as I can tell, he didn't succeed. The rest ran away too. Or quickly manoeuvred away let's say.
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Yep, though a contingent did fight bravely at Isandlwana and died alongside our troops there....The Zulus having tribal enemies who took that British invasion as an opportunity.
 
Stirlingsays said:
That's on my bucket list.

Truly envious, should be fantastic!
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I did it about 15 years ago and it was fabulous. Ladysmith, Spion Kopp, spot where was captured and Yorke’s Drift. Guide was an expert and brought the whole thing to life. Also got the chance to meet Chief Boutolezi (?) the Guy who played the head of the Zulu army in the movie.
 
totoshkin said:
I did it about 15 years ago and it was fabulous. Ladysmith, Spion Kopp, spot where was captured and Yorke’s Drift. Guide was an expert and brought the whole thing to life. Also got the chance to meet Chief Boutolezi (?) the Guy who played the head of the Zulu army in the movie.
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Amazing, top of the range sir.
 
totoshkin said:
I did it about 15 years ago and it was fabulous. Ladysmith, Spion Kopp, spot where was captured and Yorke’s Drift. Guide was an expert and brought the whole thing to life. Also got the chance to meet Chief Boutolezi (?) the Guy who played the head of the Zulu army in the movie.
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You met an actual king!
 
BTW I have been re-watching Wolf Hall which then merged into season 2 and I now see the fuss. What a difference after only 9 years.

The first recorded black person to arrive in England was in 1610.

Yet, 80 years earlier, we are expected to just accept that there was a black man in the Privy Council, mixed race women as the Queen's ladies in waiting, a mix race French bloke mysteriously appears without explanation as Cromwell's aid, and random guests and guards of colour randomly pop up.

This is nothing about racism. There is a degree of cultural/historic purity or appropriation. However, for me it is a jarring lack of authenticity for the sake of inclusivity that aggressively deflects from the drama.

I though Bridgerton was bad. At least with that tosh it does not purport to be any good (it is awful) and is mere confection and fiction. It is not a ruination of a brilliant piece of art which details a critical point in this nation's history.
 
silvertop said:
BTW I have been re-watching Wolf Hall which then merged into season 2 and I now see the fuss. What a difference after only 9 years.

The first recorded black person to arrive in England was in 1610.

Yet, 80 years earlier, we are expected to just accept that there was a black man in the Privy Council, mixed race women as the Queen's ladies in waiting, a mix race French bloke mysteriously appears without explanation as Cromwell's aid, and random guests and guards of colour randomly pop up.

This is nothing about racism. There is a degree of cultural/historic purity or appropriation. However, for me it is a jarring lack of authenticity for the sake of inclusivity that aggressively deflects from the drama.

I though Bridgerton was bad. At least with that tosh it does not purport to be any good (it is awful) and is mere confection and fiction. It is not a ruination of a brilliant piece of art which details a critical point in this nation's history.
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Just ignore the colour of the skin. It really doesn’t matter a jot. If you want to look at it and make comment on it that just adds fuel to claims of societal racism. Live and let live.
 
silvertop said:
BTW I have been re-watching Wolf Hall which then merged into season 2 and I now see the fuss. What a difference after only 9 years.

The first recorded black person to arrive in England was in 1610.

Yet, 80 years earlier, we are expected to just accept that there was a black man in the Privy Council, mixed race women as the Queen's ladies in waiting, a mix race French bloke mysteriously appears without explanation as Cromwell's aid, and random guests and guards of colour randomly pop up.

This is nothing about racism. There is a degree of cultural/historic purity or appropriation. However, for me it is a jarring lack of authenticity for the sake of inclusivity that aggressively deflects from the drama.

I though Bridgerton was bad. At least with that tosh it does not purport to be any good (it is awful) and is mere confection and fiction. It is not a ruination of a brilliant piece of art which details a critical point in this nation's history.
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Just to let you know that there were courtiers and guards who were black in Tudor times - and likely before.
For instance, Vikings/ Saxons/ Celts often traded with Africa.
There were monkey remains found on a site in Ireland from something like the tenth century - demonstrating trade with Africa.

However, it's a bit silly to put these people in as nobility of the time. Particularly as it is clearly considered offensive the other way around. Clear double standards.
 
ASCPFC said:
Just to let you know that there were courtiers and guards who were black in Tudor times - and likely before.
For instance, Vikings/ Saxons/ Celts often traded with Africa.
There were monkey remains found on a site in Ireland from something like the tenth century - demonstrating trade with Africa.

However, it's a bit silly to put these people in as nobility of the time. Particularly as it is clearly considered offensive the other way around. Clear double standards.
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The scale of trade would have been very low in relative terms, as in not a regular thing. Back then trade was highly risky, losses at sea would scale with distance via storms and piracy. That kind of trade required large investments. Most external trade was localised to Europeans for these reasons.

That said it would have happened but we all know the false picture they are trying to create. They want to moralise and emphasise rare events because it's important to them personally. They aren't interested in anything approaching truth unless it coincides with what they are pushing.
 
silvertop said:
BTW I have been re-watching Wolf Hall which then merged into season 2 and I now see the fuss. What a difference after only 9 years.

The first recorded black person to arrive in England was in 1610.

Yet, 80 years earlier, we are expected to just accept that there was a black man in the Privy Council, mixed race women as the Queen's ladies in waiting, a mix race French bloke mysteriously appears without explanation as Cromwell's aid, and random guests and guards of colour randomly pop up.

This is nothing about racism. There is a degree of cultural/historic purity or appropriation. However, for me it is a jarring lack of authenticity for the sake of inclusivity that aggressively deflects from the drama.

I though Bridgerton was bad. At least with that tosh it does not purport to be any good (it is awful) and is mere confection and fiction. It is not a ruination of a brilliant piece of art which details a critical point in this nation's history.
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Never watched it but don't have a problem with it, they don't even pretend it's factual so I'm fine with that.

If you believe the BBC and others, black people were common before Windrush. Well my response to that is check old photographs and documentary movies of crowd scenes like a football match or a high street in central London.

2 things stick out:
1. Nearly all men are wearing cloth caps
2. They are white

Even post Windrush it's not as common as you imagine. I saw a documentary about Notting hill market made in 1969 plenty of crowd scenes hundreds of people and only the occasional black figure. I was expecting that by then there would be far more, unless they all avoided the camera.
 
totoshkin said:
Just ignore the colour of the skin. It really doesn’t matter a jot. If you want to look at it and make comment on it that just adds fuel to claims of societal racism. Live and let live.
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Like I said above make a biopic of Marcus Garvey casting white folk in prominent black roles and see the outcome.

Wolf Hall is fiction not docudrama but is researched to be as close as dammit.

I can't ignore it. It's engineered and clumsy as feck. It is akin to one of the cast responding to a call on their mobile.
 
totoshkin said:
Just ignore the colour of the skin. It really doesn’t matter a jot. If you want to look at it and make comment on it that just adds fuel to claims of societal racism. Live and let live.
Click to expand...
And it is the use of attack terms like societal racism that is the language of the witch hunt.
 
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