War in Ukraine

[Wisbech Eagle]

So is that in the Mail but it still gets dismissed. Who stands to gain more from disseminating misinformation; China or the Daily Mail?

We are discussing the information generated by AI. Not by journalists spinning copy to suit the political agenda of an owner. If two AI models owned by businesses in countries with different political outlooks generate almost identical answers on matters of fact then you can be confident in both.

China, and others, disseminate misinformation. The Mail, and others, spin information. There is a difference.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Issue now is not so much what happens in terms of the talks about the outcome of Ukraine but what then comes afterwards.

But this does not end here. The truth needs to come out about 'why' this wretched war happened in the first place. With the involvement of the Bidens first and foremost along with lots of people associated with both the CIA and MI6 in being primary movers in orchestrating this entire debacle. And lets not touch on the horrendous mess that is the Nord Star 2 sabotage.

This mess does not go away once the fighting stops. It only gets messier and messier. Because it sums up everything that has been wrong about how the West has been run over the last 20 years. And almost none of the major players will come out of this unscathed.

It is going to be a mind f*** of epic proportions. Potentially change the world for the next 25 years in the same way that the September 11th attacks did back in 2001.

Blaming “the West” for this situation is exactly what Putin wants! Do you not realise how people like you are being manipulated?

I heard a Russian defender of Putin interviewed on Radio 4 this morning. He was asked to explain what Putin’s objectives and settlement expectations were. It’s clear that he does not regard Ukraine as a sovereign state but as a vassal state of Russia and has no intention of stopping until that is achieved. Not just in the Russian speaking east, but the entirety of Ukraine. Any pause to the fighting now will just be until they are ready to resume. He will demand that the government in Ukraine is replaced by a puppet one loyal to Moscow.

It isn’t what the Ukrainians want or have been fighting for. Those I heard on the same programme have no intention of considering such a situation. Finding a solution looks impossible, no matter how much Trump wants to wipe his hands clean.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

We are discussing the information generated by AI. Not by journalists spinning copy to suit the political agenda of an owner. If two AI models owned by businesses in countries with different political outlooks generate almost identical answers on matters of fact then you can be confident in both.

China, and others, disseminate misinformation. The Mail, and others, spin information. There is a difference.

The difference is called bias confirmation.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ok, I'm going to speculate:

America will negotiate a settlement understanding with Russia.
They will offer that to Ukraine and Europe.
I very much doubt that America will offer themselves as a military 'backstop' in Ukraine or allow for article five to be activated if European troops head to Kiev.

I suspect that Ukraine will reject the settlement offer and that Russia and America will come to an understanding on how much they can do in Ukraine before America become involved......Maybe America will offer economic re-engagement and get cheap mineral deals from formerly Ukrainian mines and no Nato for Ukraine.

If Russia and America agree a settlement then essentially Russia carry out the American agreement and get to and enforce those border lines.

America will probably insist on elections in Ukraine and if Ukraine vote for a peace deal....and Russia will have insisted on a neutral option. I see Zelensky and others leaving for the middle east with rather a lot of money....or maybe he goes even before an election or stays....but I think he'll see any peace with Russia imposed onto them....which is probably true, but that's the path they went down.

Europe will probably fracture on what to do about Ukraine.....but ultimately I do see France, UK and others sending troops there to hold a peace deal.....Not very sensible and they will probably more likely be attacked by Ukrainian groups against their enforcement of a peace deal more than Russia.

Russia behaviour will probably depend upon how good the economic deal is.

As I said this was a stupid war to get involved with....the 'winners' are the US, China and.....Well Russia far more than Ukraine.

Europe is left with much of the negative effects of this war and Ukraine has been led down the primrose path......not by those like me, but by those who always think it's wise to bet it all on red. Ukraine will need major engagement now otherwise god knows what happens there.....but personally I wouldn't send our troops as sure as eggs are eggs they will get attacked....Let Poland and other eastern European countries peace-keep there.

But we will probably end up sending out lads because we foolishly committed to paying Ukraine's debts if the state fails....Probably thanks to fools like Johnson and Wallace.....We need brighter elites, well that ultimately means that the failed social liberals need to be kicked out all over Europe....that is probably going to happen in Germany soon and France in 2027.

 

[Eaglehamster]

Issue now is not so much what happens in terms of the talks about the outcome of Ukraine but what then comes afterwards.

But this does not end here. The truth needs to come out about 'why' this wretched war happened in the first place. With the involvement of the Bidens first and foremost along with lots of people associated with both the CIA and MI6 in being primary movers in orchestrating this entire debacle. And lets not touch on the horrendous mess that is the Nord Star 2 sabotage.

This mess does not go away once the fighting stops. It only gets messier and messier. Because it sums up everything that has been wrong about how the West has been run over the last 20 years. And almost none of the major players will come out of this unscathed.

It is going to be a mind f*** of epic proportions. Potentially change the world for the next 25 years in the same way that the September 11th attacks did back in 2001.

Wow you must be privvy to some sensational evidence. Mind telling us the source?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Blaming “the West” for this situation is exactly what Putin wants! Do you not realise how people like you are being manipulated?

I heard a Russian defender of Putin interviewed on Radio 4 this morning. He was asked to explain what Putin’s objectives and settlement expectations were. It’s clear that he does not regard Ukraine as a sovereign state but as a vassal state of Russia and has no intention of stopping until that is achieved. Not just in the Russian speaking east, but the entirety of Ukraine. Any pause to the fighting now will just be until they are ready to resume. He will demand that the government in Ukraine is replaced by a puppet one loyal to Moscow.

It isn’t what the Ukrainians want or have been fighting for. Those I heard on the same programme have no intention of considering such a situation. Finding a solution looks impossible, no matter how much Trump wants to wipe his hands clean.

Seeing as you want massive numbers of young men to head to Ukraine there's always a warm trench waiting for you there instead.

 

[Stirlingsays]

AA on the reasons why Britain is so fanatical in its support for Ukraine.

He's amazed at the lack of realism.

​

 

[PalazioVecchio]

ah yes. The NATO wars. Bringing peace, prosperity and democracy to all these little countries. That was a great democracy puppet government we brought into Oil rich Kuwait. All the politicians with practically the same surname.

This War was NEVER about the best interests of Ukranians. History often repeats itself. Be under no allusions. Winston Churchill is still despised in Poland. Seen as a traitor to their cause.

 

[ASCPFC]

ah yes. The NATO wars. Bringing peace, prosperity and democracy to all these little countries. That was a great democracy puppet government we brought into Oil rich Kuwait. All the politicians with practically the same surname.

This War was NEVER about the best interests of Ukranians. History often repeats itself. Be under no allusions. Winston Churchill is still despised in Poland. Seen as a traitor to their cause.

Despised completely incorrectly as there was absolutely nothing he could do about it whatsoever.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Despised completely incorrectly as there was absolutely nothing he could do about it whatsoever.

?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The difference is called bias confirmation.

No it isn’t. The first is the deliberate spreading of outright lies, dressed up as truth. The second is the manipulation of truths to tell a narrative in a particular way, by missing out some salient facts and emphasising others.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Seeing as you want massive numbers of young men to head to Ukraine there's always a warm trench waiting for you there instead.

View attachment 656

I want no such thing. Don’t be quite so ridiculous!

No one wants that and it must be avoided if at all possible. However whenever two bad options are faced the least worse is preferable. That’s true in all circumstances, not just this one.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

AA on the reasons why Britain is so fanatical in its support for Ukraine.

He's amazed at the lack of realism.

​

Trawling the depths again and dredging up more mud to sling from those dark reactionaries you love so much?

I am amazed at his, and your, lack of realism!

We are far from fanatical in our support for Ukraine. Most of us treasure democracy and don’t want to see authoritarianism creeping closer to our borders, either from the east or the west. That’s supporting us. Not anyone else!

 

[Teddy Eagle]

No it isn’t. The first is the deliberate spreading of outright lies, dressed up as truth. The second is the manipulation of truths to tell a narrative in a particular way, by missing out some salient facts and emphasising others.

Yes. Bias confirmation.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Trawling the depths again and dredging up more mud to sling from those dark reactionaries you love so much?

I am amazed at his, and your, lack of realism!

We are far from fanatical in our support for Ukraine. Most of us treasure democracy and don’t want to see authoritarianism creeping closer to our borders, either from the east or the west. That’s supporting us. Not anyone else!

Play the ball not the man....you call people like him 'reactionaries' (far more educated than your sorry person), yet it's you who wants the reaction!

Anyway, if you want to fight Russia.....So get in a trench.
Stopping begging others to do your dirty work for you.
There is an open invitation from Ukraine for anyone willing to join their forces. They will pay for your travel expenses.

Off you pop landlord.

The fact is you'd cry your backside off and move heaven and earth not to go....useless if you even went. That image has some truth to it.

But you'd advocate for others to go instead.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Play the ball not the man.

Anyway, if you want to fight Russia.....So get in a trench.
Stopping begging others to do your dirty work for you.
There is an open invitation from Ukraine for anyone willing to join their forces. They will pay for your travel expenses.

Off you pop.

The fact is you'd cry your backside off and move heaven and earth not to go....useless if you even went. That image has some truth to it.

But you'd advocate for others to go instead.

I know who I’d trust and not trust to back me up on here 😉

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

 

[Stirlingsays]

I want no such thing. Don’t be quite so ridiculous!

No one wants that and it must be avoided if at all possible. However whenever two bad options are faced the least worse is preferable. That’s true in all circumstances, not just this one.

That's the inevitable consequence of the path you backed.

 

[eaglesdare]

The EU have had years to initiate peace talks. The moment Trump gets into office and initiates peace talks there is outrage.

Colors well and truly shown. If they had any left to show after the last couple of years. They have had their chance. But no interest in saving lives it's all about money.

If trump gets this done he should be getting the nobel peace prize. He also deescalated north Korea when he took office back in 2016.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The EU have had years to initiate peace talks. The moment Trump gets into office and initiates peace talks there is outrage.

Colors well and truly shown. If they had any left to show after the last couple of years. They have had their chance. But no interest in saving lives it's all about money.

If trump gets this done he should be getting the nobel peace prize. He also deescalated north Korea when he took office back in 2016.

Exactly the problem with a lot of the left is that they don't factor in the reality that a lot of important people disagree with them. When it comes to paying for their war they were relying upon upon others to pay for most of it.....they also don't seem to understand that thanks to them and their socially liberal friends our military and militaries all over Europe were gutted a long time ago.

Their lefty ideology also made for a military that doesn't even want to fight for anything....they talk about democracy yet that type never join the military because in truth they look down on those people.

As usual they were signing cheques that no one wanted to pay for.....always talking past the sale.

They had three years and this change in direction was being written about on Hol over a year ago.....but it's like their behaviour over Brexit, they bet it all on red and then moan like feck when it comes up black.

No mirrors in their house.