Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
England
That depends on whether Trump decided to rename Greenland as the Death Star. He has previous so it’s possible.
-
Existing user of old message board?
Your username will have transferred over to this new message board, but your password will need to be reset. Visit our convert your account page, to transfer your old password over.
War in Ukraine
- Topic starter DANGERCLOSE
- Start date
I really don't understand why anyone engages with the deluded. The constant nonsense far outweighs the laughs it used to generate.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
Both 'sides' always claim victory, but it comes down to an objective appraisal to what the effects are of a war.
If the war ends this year, which I think happens, then Russia aren't going to get everything they want out of a peace deal. It's also true that Russia have suffered significantly in the short term both economically and with human cost.
Going through their war aims would take time but personally I think they get about a six or seven out of ten for what they wanted out of the war.
The biggest winners out of the war are the US and China.....both secure significant upgrades on economic deals without the human costs of war.
The biggest loser is Ukraine.....Zelensky is heralded as a hero in Europe but in truth he's been a complete disaster for Ukraine and I predict that he loses elections in Ukraine (if he even stands) after the war.
Europe loses significantly economically and in influence, as predicted they will be left holding the baby.....They gambled big on Ukraine and I know I and others warned that these decisions weren't likely to succeed and put us in hock for massive future risks with zero upside.
But we have very poor elites, who are very group think and most of the major European leaders are extremely unpopular in their own countries, and they seem unable to do anything other than make bad decisions that worsen outcomes for their people.
Starmer is likely to risk British troops in Ukraine at some point.....Again, zero upside and we don't even have enough troops to make much difference.....and that's another story.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
-
England
Nobody seriously expected to face a US President quite as stupid as Trump. Someone prepared to destroy NATO without a pause for thought on what the medium to long term consequences might be. Plugging the gap until sanity is hopefully restored in 4 years may require some drastic and very painful decisions.
Putin must be thinking all his Christmases have arrived at once.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
Most people don't understand what a mess some European countries have signed the whole country up for. A lot of soft brains just listen to the media and all their emotional virtue signaling without realizing why Ukraine succeeding is so important to the UK state and why they are in panic over Trump stepping away.
I implied it in an earlier post but things are way worse that you'd expect......In short we are in hock to pay Ukraine's debts if they don't/can't back debts. Our morons of a political class have signed up to paying Ukraine's debts to the world bank if they can't. When they retire they will be fine, but this debt lingers with the UK for potentially 35 years.
I asked Copilot, 'Is it true that if Ukraine can't service its debts to the world bank that the UK has to underwrite them?'
'Yes, it is true. The UK has committed to guaranteeing up to $3 billion of additional lending by the World Bank to the Government of Ukraine. This means that if Ukraine is unable to service its debts to the World Bank, the UK would be responsible for covering the repayments. The guarantees will cover both principal and interest repayments, and a UK pay-out would be triggered if Ukraine misses a repayment by 180 days'
Other countries have also provided guarantees for Ukraine's debts to the World Bank. For example, the Netherlands, Lithuania, and Latvia have all provided bilateral guarantees to support Ukraine's financing needs. These guarantees help cover the World Bank's exposure to Ukraine, ensuring that the country can continue to receive financial support even if it faces difficulties in servicing its debts.'
I have one word.
INSANITY.
I implied it in an earlier post but things are way worse that you'd expect......In short we are in hock to pay Ukraine's debts if they don't/can't back debts. Our morons of a political class have signed up to paying Ukraine's debts to the world bank if they can't. When they retire they will be fine, but this debt lingers with the UK for potentially 35 years.
I asked Copilot, 'Is it true that if Ukraine can't service its debts to the world bank that the UK has to underwrite them?'
'Yes, it is true. The UK has committed to guaranteeing up to $3 billion of additional lending by the World Bank to the Government of Ukraine. This means that if Ukraine is unable to service its debts to the World Bank, the UK would be responsible for covering the repayments. The guarantees will cover both principal and interest repayments, and a UK pay-out would be triggered if Ukraine misses a repayment by 180 days'
Other countries have also provided guarantees for Ukraine's debts to the World Bank. For example, the Netherlands, Lithuania, and Latvia have all provided bilateral guarantees to support Ukraine's financing needs. These guarantees help cover the World Bank's exposure to Ukraine, ensuring that the country can continue to receive financial support even if it faces difficulties in servicing its debts.'
I have one word.
INSANITY.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
It seems Trump's main mission is to focus upon value for money and economics on his first two years, to this end I have no issue with him looking to get out of Ukraine.....it's little more than a financial black hole....I doubt he'll get his mineral deal with Ukraine and I suspect that he'll come to some deal with Putin over what Trump and Putin will accept as a settlement.
However, there is a valid criticism of Trump here.....because a bit of the mood music coming from him seems a little misplaced. Trump doesn't get to decide for Ukraine what deal it accepts with Russia.
I say this with all my criticisms of Zelensky and the madness of the decisions they took....Also that Zelensky is an unelected leader, a de facto dictator with an expired mandate.....there is little doubt that if he stood for election he would lose quite easily.
However, if Ukraine decide to fight till the last Ukrainian (despite forcing much of its population) then that's not anyone else's decision but theirs. I doubt it happens, because money talks and there's a lot of investment tied up in Ukraine paying back its debts.....However, there are fields upon fields of graveyards filled up with brave warriors who stood and fought for their country's leaders....on both sides.
Only countries who have paid the blood price get to decide when enough is enough.
However, there is a valid criticism of Trump here.....because a bit of the mood music coming from him seems a little misplaced. Trump doesn't get to decide for Ukraine what deal it accepts with Russia.
I say this with all my criticisms of Zelensky and the madness of the decisions they took....Also that Zelensky is an unelected leader, a de facto dictator with an expired mandate.....there is little doubt that if he stood for election he would lose quite easily.
However, if Ukraine decide to fight till the last Ukrainian (despite forcing much of its population) then that's not anyone else's decision but theirs. I doubt it happens, because money talks and there's a lot of investment tied up in Ukraine paying back its debts.....However, there are fields upon fields of graveyards filled up with brave warriors who stood and fought for their country's leaders....on both sides.
Only countries who have paid the blood price get to decide when enough is enough.
Wasn’t it you that said it was NEVER going to happen?
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
-
England
I said we would never be part of a permanent European army. One that involved us ceding the control of our military to a unified command. That won’t happen. It’s as impossible as us joining a federated Europe.
Providing part of a peace keeping force in these circumstances is a different issue and in no way conflicts with the above. We have provided support before.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
-
England
I asked DeepSeek the same question. It gave pretty much an identical answer with the exception that the exposure is £1billion.
Which sounds huge, but it’s not. It’s less than the amount we spend on the NHS in 2 days.
Will we have to pay up? Very unlikely and if we did it would be added to other debt.
What would have been the cost of NOT underwriting the debt? Ukraine’s infrastructure collapsing and allowing Putin an easy victory?
It would have been insanity not to offer this.
Teddy Eagle
Member
- Country
Scotland
Information from a Chinese based company? That's bound to be reliable.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
I believe the 1 billion is for the US.
Everything else you say here is just in support of the already deep dodo situation that we find ourselves in.
Sorry, I don't care whether Putin has a victory or Zelensky has one. Get yourself in a trench if it bothers you so much. Spending other people's money for your personal gripes is not ok.
Who runs the Donbas isn't worth the blood of one British soldier.
Last edited:
DANGERCLOSE
Member
- Location
- London
- Country
-
England
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
Last edited:
DANGERCLOSE
Member
- Location
- London
- Country
-
England
Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks in Saudi Arabia, source says
A Ukrainian government source told the BBC Kyiv would not be present at the proposed peace talks.
www.bbc.co.uk
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
No one was talking peace before Trump turned up.Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks in Saudi Arabia, source says
A Ukrainian government source told the BBC Kyiv would not be present at the proposed peace talks.www.bbc.co.uk
Ukraine has been losing ground every day for months and I don't see how that picture changes.
My own personal view is that Trump presents a plan, Ukraine/Europe rejects it...that could mean that Trump drops out.....and if that happens what we could be left with is a worsening picture until Russia decides to stop and defend what they have.
Maybe Trump can pull a rabbit out of hat or Ukraine/Europe change their tune, but I'm not expecting that.
Eaglehamster
Member
- Location
- Storrington
- Country
-
England
Yeah Trump is brilliant. Before any negotiations start make it known that Putin gets what he wants. I can see you’re impressed with that.
Of course the whole thing is Ukraine’s fault for defending itself against Putin’s invasion.
Why TF didn’t they just let the Russians in and nobody would have died. Brilliant again.
Your posts have the veneer of common sense but in reality you make about as much sense as Trump. Everything back to front, upside down.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
I'm impressed that Trump's working towards a settlement, yes....Do I think he succeeds? I hope so but I doubt it in the short term.
All this hard man posturing with Putin is only resulting in Ukraine losing more territory by the day. What exactly are you expecting to change in Ukraine by constantly virtue signalling about evil Russians. As stated previously if you can't stand them go fight them.
You seem to believe everything which the establishment tells you, when if you thought more critically you'd perhaps realise that they only tell you one side of the story.....there are lies on both sides.
I say to you why should I care if Putin wins this war? What difference does that make? Even if I cared either way anyone with more than two brain cells would understand what the real cost would be to win this war.....How would you justify our involvement to the families of our dead soldiers families.....Fighting for slavs in a war that gains them nothing.
You call it 'Putin's invasion' and yes unfortunately he invaded. However, why did the CIA spend 5 billion in 2014 helping overturn Ukraine's democratically elected government? (that's hypothetical we know why they did) That was always going to lead to conflict in Ukraine as the east of the country are Ukrainians but are also largely ethnic Russians. There's this make believe that Zelensky represented all of Ukraine when the reality is he represented the western and central parts. The units that started the civil war in 2014 were Ukrainian units, not Russian ones.
No one actually wanted war and Putin warned about these western interventions many years before an invasion.....Yet you present things like everything started in 2022, which is exactly how it's presented in the media.
Why is there this assumption that my country should be intervening around the world? We don't have the military, we don't have the money nor do we have the full story due to one way narratives.
Last edited:
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
-
England
One that sent the value of US based AI businesses into the biggest tailspin ever seen!
Use another if you don’t trust the result. I bet it won’t be any different.
Eagleman13
Member
- Location
- On The Road To Hell & Alicante
- Country
Bermuda
What worries me with this, along with a lot of other Service Personnel both still serving & Vets that ive talked to, is that, if, 2TK does put boots on the ground, what will happen to them , in say, 10, 15 years time? Will there be more poor sods hounded & prosecuted because that 'tw*t' ordered them to go, just like the NI Vets, the Afghan Vets, those that were in the Balkans, now being prosecuted?