Villa v Maccabi

[CPFCSaturn]

And Jewish.

If fans are acting violent then it's up to uefa to fine / ban them.

But we now know that the police stopped them going to the game for other reasons.

It's antisemitic to conflate Israeli and Jews. They are Israelis.

And yet even the Israeli police have taken actions against them: Maccabi v Hapoel called off by police after 'violent riots'

The police stopped them going because they are very evidently a violent fan base and the risk to public safety was enormous - the idea that this level of violence (which surely we can all agree was inevitable if Maccabi fans attended) should have just been allowed to play out is genuine lunacy - the sort of lunacy defending Israel seems to draw out of a lot of people, including many of our politicians.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The mistake was to pander to the Muslim population of Birmingham. They were either directed to do so by the government or they wanted to avoid exposing themselves to the harsh reality of what Birmingham has become.

The mistake was to lie and invent evidence when they didn't need to.

 

[eaglesdare]

It's antisemitic to conflate Israeli and Jews. They are Israelis.

And yet even the Israeli police have taken actions against them: Maccabi v Hapoel called off by police after 'violent riots'

The police stopped them going because they are very evidently a violent fan base and the risk to public safety was enormous - the idea that this level of violence (which surely we can all agree was inevitable if Maccabi fans attended) should have just been allowed to play out is genuine lunacy - the sort of lunacy defending Israel seems to draw out of a lot of people, including many of our politicians.

What's antisemitic is your attitude towards the Jewish and Israeli people.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

What's antisemitic is your attitude towards the Jewish and Israeli people.

And as ever, you get schooled and resort to lazy antisemitism claims.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The mistake was to lie and invent evidence when they didn't need to.

And you can't figure out why they did that?

The very best defence you could make was that the police wanted to avoid a full scale riot caused by Muslims.
Football fans had nothing to do with it other than the fact that they were Israeli.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. It was predictable before the event.

 

[eaglesdare]

And as ever, you get schooled and resort to lazy antisemitism claims.

You were the one who resorted to antisemitism claims first 🤷‍♂️

 

[CPFCSaturn]

And you can't figure out why they did that?

The very best defence you could make was that the police wanted to avoid a full scale riot caused by Muslims.
Football fans had nothing to do with it other than the fact that they were Israeli.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. It was predictable before the event.

They wanted to avoid fault scale riot caused by both sides - of course local Muslims would have been looking for violent disorder, as would the Maccabi fans as they've demonstrated before and since - to suggest the risk of violence is a result of just one side is clearly complete guff.

To pretend the very recent violent history of Maccabi fans has "nothing to do with it" is even sillier.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You were the one who resorted to antisemitism claims first 🤷‍♂️

Nope, I educated you on what antisemitism can look like - correctly. Maybe reflect on that in your crusade again antisemitism - if you really cared about it, you'd take the point seriously.

 

[eaglesdare]

Nope, I educated you on what antisemitism can look like - correctly. Maybe reflect on that in your crusade again antisemitism - if you really cared about it, you'd take the point seriously.

Unfortunately you are wrong again.

If the maccabi fans are truly violent then UEFA should have banned them from stadiums long before the villa game.

The police made up bogus claims to stop them going to the game.

Fury at police's bid to COVER UP Islamist threat to Jewish football fans as Israelis blamed instead

Even two tier kier was "angered by the decision"

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Unfortunately you are wrong again.

If the maccabi fans are truly violent then UEFA should have banned them from stadiums long before the villa game.

The police made up bogus claims to stop them going to the game.

Fury at police's bid to COVER UP Islamist threat to Jewish football fans as Israelis blamed instead

Even two tier kier was "angered by the decision"

Maccabi fans are violent and have been banned by UEFA - they caused more violence in Stuttgart (their next European away day after Villa) and were fined and banned by UEFA as a result.

That was just after they’d rioted in Amsterdam and the Tel-Aviv derby.

One of our politicians was angered on behalf of Israel!? I’m shocked.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They wanted to avoid fault scale riot caused by both sides - of course local Muslims would have been looking for violent disorder, as would the Maccabi fans as they've demonstrated before and since - to suggest the risk of violence is a result of just one side is clearly complete guff.

To pretend the very recent violent history of Maccabi fans has "nothing to do with it" is even sillier.

You are clearly happy to make a fool of yourself. It wouldn't have taken two sides to start this riot.
When was the last time a club had its fans banned from Britain for causing trouble?
You just can't pretend that this was about football violence.

The wider point is that we now have major cities where formally exotic rivalries are a threat to our security due to the policies of British governments. It is a shameful example of where we find ourselves due to the stupidity of politicians.

 

[eaglesdare]

Maccabi fans are violent and have been banned by UEFA - they caused more violence in Stuttgart (their next European away day after Villa) and were fined and banned by UEFA as a result.

That was just after they’d rioted in Amsterdam and the Tel-Aviv derby.

One of our politicians was angered on behalf of Israel!? I’m shocked.

Good. Violence has no place in football and violent fans should be banned.

But as you know that was not the reason for this game. As has been widely reported.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Good. Violence has no place in football and violent fans should be banned.

But as you know that was not the reason for this game. As has been widely reported.

Unless they’re Israeli, apparently.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You are clearly happy to make a fool of yourself. It wouldn't have taken two sides to start this riot.
When was the last time a club had its fans banned from Britain for causing trouble?
You just can't pretend that this was about football violence.

The wider point is that we now have major cities where formally exotic rivalries are a threat to our security due to the policies of British governments. It is a shameful example of where we find ourselves due to the stupidity of politicians.

You’re clearly happy to make an idiot of yourself.

Many clubs have had away travel bans over the last few years, and it’s never been particularly controversial.

 

[eaglesdare]

Unless they’re Israeli, apparently.

By UEFA after an investigation. Not by the UK police making it up.

 

[Penge Eagle]

What's bonkers is making something up in your head and then describing it as astonishing 🤣

Except you cannot disprove what I said.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Except you cannot disprove what I said.

Mainly because I don’t know what on earth you’re on about - it’s just loony ramblings about ‘liberals’.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The many examples of violence shown by Maccabi fans before and since the decision.

The many examples of fans from other European clubs being banned for similar violence.

Is the following not true?

The ban on Israeli fans was based on weak or fabricated intelligence about the football violence.

WMP decided on the ban first and then sought intelligence afterwards to justify it.

WMP initially claimed that Jewish community representatives supported the ban - a statement they were forced to withdraw and later apologise for, as no such documented support existed before the decision was announced.

Police had intelligence that some local community members were intending to “arm themselves” and actively target Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. So they ignored the intelligence about violence from the Islamic community and fabricated evidence about Israeli fans being violent.

 

[Common Sense Club]

It's antisemitic to conflate Israeli and Jews. They are Israelis.

And yet even the Israeli police have taken actions against them: Maccabi v Hapoel called off by police after 'violent riots'

The police stopped them going because they are very evidently a violent fan base and the risk to public safety was enormous - the idea that this level of violence (which surely we can all agree was inevitable if Maccabi fans attended) should have just been allowed to play out is genuine lunacy - the sort of lunacy defending Israel seems to draw out of a lot of people, including many of our politicians.

No go areas are acceptable, then? The local Muslim community arming themselves is acceptable? (They could have just stayed indoors).
The police evidently lied and distorted the situation to fit an agenda that had already been decided by the local MP.
If you are happy with this sort of mindset don’t complain when a local population ‘arms itself’ when it feels under threat from ‘visitors’ of a different ethnicity.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Is the following not true?

The ban on Israeli fans was based on weak or fabricated intelligence about the football violence.

WMP decided on the ban first and then sought intelligence afterwards to justify it.

WMP initially claimed that Jewish community representatives supported the ban - a statement they were forced to withdraw and later apologise for, as no such documented support existed before the decision was announced.

Police had intelligence that some local community members were intending to “arm themselves” and actively target Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. So they ignored the intelligence about violence from the Islamic community and fabricated evidence about Israeli fans being violent.

Broadly true, yes, and I’ve already acknowledged I think WMP conducted themselves very poorly.


It doesn’t at all change my view that the ban was the correct decision - the risk of violence on all sides was enormous.