US Politics

[Wisbech Eagle]

But on Sunday evening, Joe Biden said, "politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice"

I wonder what Trump supporters are supposed to think ?

It is of course, unlike the charges against Trump, true, but nevertheless a very regrettable action that will be ruthlessly exploited by Trump and the sycophants he is trying to appoint.

It further diminishes the state of US politics and accelerates its democratic plunge.

It doesn’t though mean that charges could not be laid in the future. Against anyone. Including both Bidens and Trump.

If I were a potential Democratic candidate, like Gavin Newsom, I would distance myself from this as strongly as possible and undertake to make pardons for close relatives of Presidents illegal for them to issue.

 

[steeleye20]

The decline and fall of the Roman empire was from within.

The United States, to put it mildly, is 'as rotten as a pear'.

😎

 

[Teddy Eagle]

It is of course, unlike the charges against Trump, true, but nevertheless a very regrettable action that will be ruthlessly exploited by Trump and the sycophants he is trying to appoint.

It further diminishes the state of US politics and accelerates its democratic plunge.

It doesn’t though mean that charges could not be laid in the future. Against anyone. Including both Bidens and Trump.

If I were a potential Democratic candidate, like Gavin Newsom, I would distance myself from this as strongly as possible and undertake to make pardons for close relatives of Presidents illegal for them to issue.

I agree with you but it would probably be regarded as unconstitutional for family members to be treated differently.
Looking at the list of Presidential pardons over the years is quite interesting; Ford, of course, pardoned Nixon.
Biden had previously pardoned far fewer than other Presidents (excluding those on minor cannabis charges he'd only pardoned 26 compared to Obama's 1927).

 

[Spiderman]

The decline and fall of the Roman empire was from within.

The United States, to put it mildly, is 'as rotten as a pear'.

😎

A pear of what?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Last week, the Social Security Administration signed an agreement allowing 42,000 SSA workers to work from home until 2029. This is direct interference with the incoming Trump administration.

The Democrats are spending and doing everything they can to sabotage Trump's 2nd term.......Last minute spending, escalation of wars ... and now the undermining of the DOGE department.

We have already seen the huge double standards and direct lying concerning the Hunter Biden pardon, which covers far more than his court cases but the whole ten years from 2014.....that's all the Ukraine stuff he was involved with.

This is before we see the pardons Biden is going to do at the end of his presidency. I suspect he's going to try to completely hamper Trump.

Well, it gives Trump....or whoever is in charge (I doubt Trump will try to see out his term) full rein to do the same if the Democrats win in 28.

It certainly isn't how to run a democracy.

 

[HKOwen]

Last week, the Social Security Administration signed an agreement allowing 42,000 SSA workers to work from home until 2029. This is direct interference with the incoming Trump administration.

The Democrats are spending and doing everything they can to sabotage Trump's 2nd term.......Last minute spending, escalation of wars ... and now the undermining of the DOGE department.

We have already seen the huge double standards and direct lying concerning the Hunter Biden pardon, which covers far more than his court cases but the whole ten years from 2014.....that's all the Ukraine stuff he was involved with.

This is before we see the pardons Biden is going to do at the end of his presidency. I suspect he's going to try to completely hamper Trump.

Well, it gives Trump....or whoever is in charge (I doubt Trump will try to see out his term) full rein to do the same if the Democrats win in 28.

It certainly isn't how to run a democracy.

Presumably this can be reversed

 

[Stirlingsays]

Presumably this can be reversed

I don't know, I should imagine how it is done will matter....I wouldn't put it past Biden's fruitcakes giving them lump sums and telling them to spend it before he takes office.

Nothing would surprise me.....they are going to try everything they can.

You know, like the adults in the room we were told about.

 

[eaglesdare]

Last week, the Social Security Administration signed an agreement allowing 42,000 SSA workers to work from home until 2029. This is direct interference with the incoming Trump administration.

The Democrats are spending and doing everything they can to sabotage Trump's 2nd term.......Last minute spending, escalation of wars ... and now the undermining of the DOGE department.

We have already seen the huge double standards and direct lying concerning the Hunter Biden pardon, which covers far more than his court cases but the whole ten years from 2014.....that's all the Ukraine stuff he was involved with.

This is before we see the pardons Biden is going to do at the end of his presidency. I suspect he's going to try to completely hamper Trump.

Well, it gives Trump....or whoever is in charge (I doubt Trump will try to see out his term) full rein to do the same if the Democrats win in 28.

It certainly isn't how to run a democracy.

It really is shocking. Day after the election results in the UK Starmer was in downing Street.

There should be no chance for either side democrats or republicans to do exactly what is happening now.

 

[cryrst]

It really is shocking. Day after the election results in the UK Starmer was in downing Street.

There should be no chance for either side democrats or republicans to do exactly what is happening now.

And I really wish he had gone straight through and out the back door. 😂

 

[Teddy Eagle]

One interesting element in the Hunter Biden pardon story is that he can no longer use the Fifth amendment if called on to testify about any of his family's activities over the period covered.

 

[Eden Eagle]

Apparently Biden is looking at issuing a “preemptive pardon” for Fauci even though he has yet to be charged with any offence.

Fauci was responsible for the US shambolic response to Covid and many say was behind the funding for the Wuhan lab where Covid virus is believed to have been created and subsequently escaped from.

 

[Badger11]

It really is shocking. Day after the election results in the UK Starmer was in downing Street.

There should be no chance for either side democrats or republicans to do exactly what is happening now.

Yup another leftover from days gone by. Originally it was a good idea.

Hold the election in November when the farming season is over and candidates and voters have time to focus on the election.

The break between November and January was a logistical one. Back in the day travel would take weeks or even months. So the incoming administration needed time to assemble. It could take weeks for the President to send a letter to someone asking them to join and for them to reply and actually come to Washington.

With Thanksgiving Christmas and the New Year not a lot was going on so you can see why it made sense back then.

It's an obsolete convention now and just gives the outgoing administration time to make mischief and drop the new Presidency in the proverbial.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Yup another leftover from days gone by. Originally it was a good idea.

Hold the election in November when the farming season is over and candidates and voters have time to focus on the election.

The break between November and January was a logistical one. Back in the day travel would take weeks or even months. So the incoming administration needed time to assemble. It could take weeks for the President to send a letter to someone asking them to join and for them to reply and actually come to Washington.

With Thanksgiving Christmas and the New Year not a lot was going on so you can see why it made sense back then.

It's an obsolete convention now and just gives the outgoing administration time to make mischief and drop the new Presidency in the proverbial.

There will be others who are extremely grateful for the opportunity to try to avoid the worst consequences of some of the things that the incoming administration is said to be proposing.

This is not a normal situation where outgoing and incoming administrations establish transition teams to ensure government runs smoothly. This is a Trump administration. A type for which there is not a pretty history.

US democracy is very clearly no longer fit for purpose. Which is hardly surprising given it was designed for a situation which no longer exists yet is still regarded as sacrosanct, making it incapable of evolving to adapt to its new environment.

Trump and those behind him want to dismantle many of the Departments that allow their country to function and start again. The result of which will be chaos and misery for many until the bureaucracy reestablishes itself, as it surely will, leaving a weakened country in its wake. Who really are the beneficiaries of this? Who therefore is behind it?

What is really needed is a new constitution designed for the 21st century and not the 18th. Only Congress could do that and I see no prospect of that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

[Spiderman]

There will be others who are extremely grateful for the opportunity to try to avoid the worst consequences of some of the things that the incoming administration is said to be proposing.

This is not a normal situation where outgoing and incoming administrations establish transition teams to ensure government runs smoothly. This is a Trump administration. A type for which there is not a pretty history.

US democracy is very clearly no longer fit for purpose. Which is hardly surprising given it was designed for a situation which no longer exists yet is still regarded as sacrosanct, making it incapable of evolving to adapt to its new environment.

Trump and those behind him want to dismantle many of the Departments that allow their country to function and start again. The result of which will be chaos and misery for many until the bureaucracy reestablishes itself, as it surely will, leaving a weakened country in its wake. Who really are the beneficiaries of this? Who therefore is behind it?

What is really needed is a new constitution designed for the 21st century and not the 18th. Only Congress could do that and I see no prospect of that happening in the foreseeable future.

Are you saying US Democracy became “ not fit for purpose “ in November or was it unfit previously? Maybe 2016-2020 unfit, 2020-2024 fit?
Still at least you are over it and moved on 😏

 

[mezzer]

There will be others who are extremely grateful for the opportunity to try to avoid the worst consequences of some of the things that the incoming administration is said to be proposing.

This is not a normal situation where outgoing and incoming administrations establish transition teams to ensure government runs smoothly. This is a Trump administration. A type for which there is not a pretty history.

US democracy is very clearly no longer fit for purpose. Which is hardly surprising given it was designed for a situation which no longer exists yet is still regarded as sacrosanct, making it incapable of evolving to adapt to its new environment.

Trump and those behind him want to dismantle many of the Departments that allow their country to function and start again. The result of which will be chaos and misery for many until the bureaucracy reestablishes itself, as it surely will, leaving a weakened country in its wake. Who really are the beneficiaries of this? Who therefore is behind it?

What is really needed is a new constitution designed for the 21st century and not the 18th. Only Congress could do that and I see no prospect of that happening in the foreseeable future.

You're contradicting yourself here. If it's no longer fit for purpose, as you declare, surely what the responsible thing to do is to dismantle many of the Departments that allow the country to function and start again, which is what you declare the incoming Government to be about to do.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Are you saying US Democracy became “ not fit for purpose “ in November or was it unfit previously? Maybe 2016-2020 unfit, 2020-2024 fit?
Still at least you are over it and moved on 😏

It’s been unfit for a long time but the terminal decline started in 2016 and has got progressively worse.

That trying to refight lost battles is always a waste of time, aka “over it”, doesn’t mean the war is lost. It requires refocusing and new strategies. Brexit being an example.

 

[Stirlingsays]

If Biden does what is being suggested then it will be unprecedented. Trump never used the pardon anywhere near as extensively as what is being suggested......We will have to see just how badly Biden rots the system.

Essentially, if he pardons anyone Trump could go after, he will set a precedence that has never been seen before......Trump never did anything like that.....He could have pardoned himself and many others but the numbers were relatively low and we saw electors and the justice system go after people he could have pardoned again and again.

If Biden is going to pardon everyone then it sends a message that all presidents can do this......and it's also very dangerous because it says to Trump that you can have your officials do whatever they want because you will guarantee no blowback with pardons.

It also suggests guilt because if Hunter was innocent of any other crimes and if anyone Biden pardons on a preemptive basis from here on in.....then people have the right to point out that there's no smoke without fire.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You're contradicting yourself here. If it's no longer fit for purpose, as you declare, surely what the responsible thing to do is to dismantle many of the Departments that allow the country to function and start again, which is what you declare the incoming Government to be about to do.

No.

Because those Departments will resist and delay. Any that do get decimated will still have functions that need to be addressed so new bureaucracies will emerge to service them. They might be smaller and less efficient to start with but will grow in response to need and chaos.

Others only need to survive for 2 years when the mid term elections deliver an uncooperative Congress for 2 more years. After which an unhappy electorate blame the administration again and return a Democrat.

A root and branch overhaul of the constitution is required. Which could be done by a series of amendments but which is stymied by the need for a 2/3rds majority in the Senate. Which could be overcome by them first amending that requirement to a simple majority rather than a super one. To get 67 votes to do that the country would need to be in such a huge mess that at least 17 Senators voted with their opponents. Given the mood of the country and the use of violence in response to things not approved of it would require great bravery to even suggest doing that.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

If Biden does what is being suggested then it will be unprecedented. Trump never used the pardon anywhere near as extensively as what is being suggested......We will have to see just how badly Biden rots the system.

Essentially, if he pardons anyone Trump could go after, he will set a precedence that has never been seen before......Trump never did anything like that.....He could have pardoned himself and many others but the numbers were relatively low and we saw electors and the justice system go after people he could have pardoned again and again.

If Biden is going to pardon everyone then it sends a message that all presidents can do this......and it's also very dangerous because it says to Trump that you can have your officials do whatever they want because you will guarantee no blowback with pardons.

It also suggests guilt because if Hunter was innocent of any other crimes and if anyone Biden pardons on a preemptive basis from here on in.....then people have the right to point out that there's no smoke without fire.

When we are talking about ways to contain Trump, and those behind him, then nothing lawful is off the table.

I haven’t seen any rumours on what Biden might do but apart from that involving his son they are just that. Rumours, which have likely sprung from very unreliable sources.

Protecting the innocent from malicious prosecution is completely different to the idea that those guilty of insurrection and other crimes be pardoned just because they are Trump supporters. Trump is himself a convicted felon, who has twice been impeached and has managed to avoid further, more serious, convictions because of his re-election.

When trust in the legal system has broken down democracy is in real trouble.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

When we are talking about ways to contain Trump, and those behind him, then nothing lawful is off the table.

I haven’t seen any rumours on what Biden might do but apart from that involving his son they are just that. Rumours, which have likely sprung from very unreliable sources.

Protecting the innocent from malicious prosecution is completely different to the idea that those guilty of insurrection and other crimes be pardoned just because they are Trump supporters. Trump is himself a convicted felon, who has twice been impeached and has managed to avoid further, more serious, convictions because of his re-election.

When trust in the legal system has broken down democracy is in real trouble.

The trouble is with who decides which elements of an administration need to be "contained" and on what grounds.
As for the last sentence - that ship has already sailed.