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US Politics

Living In Hope said:
Sadly western democracies are becoming more polarised, with less and less acceptance that there is any validity at all for an opposing viewpoint. Indeed in the UK the famous quote that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" appears to have morphed into "I disapprove of what you say and I will try to destroy your life if you say it". I suspect part of the reason for Trump's victory is that many people are utterly fed up with being vilified for opinions which in any way value tradition, heritage, and the wisdom of previous generations. There is value both in progress and in the wisdom we have inherited, and even more value in courteous discussion about issues, and in listening to people whose views do not accord with your own. For clarity, naturally I would be right of centre but I don't think I could have voted for Trump.
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In America they still have that first amendment. It's also true that now it's only really the Republicans who actually defend the first amendment whereas the Democrats are often attacking it.

To relate it to Britain I'd respect what you are saying....but this kind of sensible middle of the road 'classical liberal' stuff lost a long time ago. Your appeals to common sense mean nothing when it comes to will to power.

We haven't had free speech like it should be since Blair changed laws on speech back in the 90s and continued changing civil liberties as he went on. The Conservatives after initially opposing it only ended up expanding it. What you are saying here is relevant to the 90s.....Now it just sounds like a delayed reaction, the train has long since left that station.

You sound like you don't agree with the direction of travel, well on that I think plenty of us can agree with you. However where we are now is built upon the foundations of Blair and the inaction of the Conservative party....who quite frankly fell in love with Blairism rather than pursue Conservative principles which included the civil liberties to which you refer.
 
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Wisbech Eagle said:
Which only goes to confirm just how nuts these appointments are, this one especially so.

Any President putting people into positions of great power and influence over people’s lives based solely on their loyalty to him and not on their competency is thoroughly irresponsible.
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Sounds very much like Starmer.
 
The only way they stopped Trump last time was with a "pandemic" maybe the only way now is to start a World war.

Wouldn't put it past them to be honest.
 
Stirlingsays said:
In America they still have that first amendment. It's also true that now it's only really the Republicans who actually defend the first amendment whereas the Democrats are often attacking it.

To relate it to Britain I'd respect what you are saying....but this kind of sensible middle of the road 'classical liberal' stuff lost a long time ago. Your appeals to common sense mean nothing when it comes to will to power.

We haven't had free speech like it should be since Blair changed laws on speech back in the 90s and continued changing civil liberties as he went on. The Conservatives after initially opposing it only ended up expanding it. What you are saying here is relevant to the 90s.....Now it just sounds like a delayed reaction, the train has long since left that station.

You sound like you don't agree with the direction of travel, well on that I think plenty of us can agree with you. However where we are now is built upon the foundations of Blair and the inaction of the Conservative party....who quite frankly fell in love with Blairism rather than pursue Conservative principles which included the civil liberties to which you refer.
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I love it when “The First Amendment” is trotted out as a justification for being able to say whatever you like to whoever you like whenever you like. Ignoring on the way the rights of others. It doesn’t apply here, thank goodness, because in the USA it is used as a smoke screen for all kinds of abuses.

Here it is:-

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Sounds simple but thousands of words have been written by learned minds, including the Supreme Court”, to try to explain what it actually means in a huge number of circumstances.

So it’s not simple. Only those who think that abusing others is ok want to interpret it simply. Fortunately it only applies to what Congress can do. It doesn’t restrict what individual States can do or what individuals or organisations can do. So Facebook can moderate out abuse if they choose to.
 
eaglesdare said:
The only way they stopped Trump last time was with a "pandemic" maybe the only way now is to start a World war.

Wouldn't put it past them to be honest.
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Yep I remember it well, Trump was going well in the polls before covid hit.

The single biggest reason he lost that election was due to the consequences of covid and to be honest I think the biggest single factor in the Dems losing was also the consequences of covid.....that inflation level was too high for too long.

It's the main reason the Tories lost over here as well, as Clinton put it, 'it's the economy stupid'.....in other words if people associate your term with being poorer than before it then it's going to be a bloody hard time winning.
 
cryrst said:
Charges dropped against trump for trying to overturn 2020 election.
Yeah of course they have. Might be a bit of self preservation going on 😂
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The Federal charges were always going to be withdrawn the moment he won. There’s no point in pursuing them for the next 4 years because of the accepted principle that a sitting President cannot be prosecuted.

Smith has asked they be withdrawn “without prejudice”. Which means they could be reintroduced the moment he is no longer President, although I wouldn’t put it past him to try to do something to avoid that possibility, like pardoning himself from each and every charge, current or future. Given that it has been suggested that his primary motive in running was to avoid spending the rest of his life in jail it would not surprise me.

What happens to the State charges now is another matter.
 
cryrst said:
Charges dropped against trump for trying to overturn 2020 election.
Yeah of course they have. Might be a bit of self preservation going on 😂
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Indeed, and in a tiny part of south west England.....the jam being kept....that was forever tomorrow finally goes off.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
The Federal charges were always going to be withdrawn the moment he won. There’s no point in pursuing them for the next 4 years because of the accepted principle that a sitting President cannot be prosecuted.

Smith has asked they be withdrawn “without prejudice”. Which means they could be reintroduced the moment he is no longer President, although I wouldn’t put it past him to try to do something to avoid that possibility, like pardoning himself from each and every charge, current or future. Given that it has been suggested that his primary motive in running was to avoid spending the rest of his life in jail it would not surprise me.

What happens to the State charges now is another matter.
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It means he is innocent though as charges are not dropped if you’re guilty.
Popcorn at the ready for January unless that dope Biden has finalised it for all of us by then.
 
cryrst said:
It means he is innocent though as charges are not dropped if you’re guilty.
Popcorn at the ready for January unless that dope Biden has finalised it for all of us by then.
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Of course it doesn’t! Even the most truth blind doesn’t think that.

It merely means there is no point in using resources to pursue him whilst he is President, due to their convention of not prosecuting a sitting President.

The facts don’t change. The evidence is filed and ready to be presented after he has gone. Whether it is depends both on whether he introduces mechanisms to stop it and whether an incoming AG decides it better to just turn the page and allow him to fade away.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Indeed, and in a tiny part of south west England.....the jam being kept....that was forever tomorrow finally goes off.
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It’s a strange fact that there is a never ending supply of tomorrows.

It’s also a fact that ultimately justice tends to catch up with even the most determined of serial criminals.

It’s also a fact that facts, like jam, when securely stored in tight containers, doesn’t go off. They can be used once the environment changes.

Environments do change. That’s what drives evolution. It will change again.

As I have said many times all you need is patience. Those pursuing Trump have endless patience and their day will come.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It’s a strange fact that there is a never ending supply of tomorrows.

It’s also a fact that ultimately justice tends to catch up with even the most determined of serial criminals.

It’s also a fact that facts, like jam, when securely stored in tight containers, doesn’t go off. They can be used once the environment changes.

Environments do change. That’s what drives evolution. It will change again.

As I have said many times all you need is patience. Those pursuing Trump have endless patience and their day will come.
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Lucky you have moved on! 😏
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It’s a strange fact that there is a never ending supply of tomorrows.

It’s also a fact that ultimately justice tends to catch up with even the most determined of serial criminals.

It’s also a fact that facts, like jam, when securely stored in tight containers, doesn’t go off. They can be used once the environment changes.

Environments do change. That’s what drives evolution. It will change again.

As I have said many times all you need is patience. Those pursuing Trump have endless patience and their day will come.
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Jam that doesn't go off must be so full of additives that it glows in the dark. Perhaps you meant honey?
 
HKOwen said:
I really love the ignore button
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True, but the predicted Trump win, which TDS like his enabled means it's a special occasion. I mean who would want to miss the galaxy sized proportions of cope coming from such corny quarters.

I will admit to the occasional guilty pleasure.
 
On a southern shore in Cornwall, I can see an exasperated man throwing rocks and boulders into the sea. Every day he keeps adding to the rocky outcrop in the sea. Eventually, the bridge to France will be complete and we can pretend Brexit never happened and the UK would once again be part of Europe,
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It’s a strange fact that there is a never ending supply of tomorrows.

It’s also a fact that ultimately justice tends to catch up with even the most determined of serial criminals.

It’s also a fact that facts, like jam, when securely stored in tight containers, doesn’t go off. They can be used once the environment changes.

Environments do change. That’s what drives evolution. It will change again.

As I have said many times all you need is patience. Those pursuing Trump have endless patience and their day will come.
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Patience so endless that if you say the wrong thing they call the police.
 
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