US Politics

[Frenchaigle]

The US / Trump obviously has ulterior motives for the raid but there is one point I do agree with them.

Why is it that some people are are excusing countries that facilitate hard drugs being exported.

Every year thousands of Americans are dying because of drugs either they are addicts, or victims of drug crimes or gang warfare mainly imported. The countries doing the exporting, well their leaders sit back and take a cut off the profits.

Trump views it as an attack on the US and I agree. So this raid sends a message to the drug lords and their political pals, we are coming for you.

As for so called international law I agree with Stirlingsays it's all BS. Starmer is all wish washy about the US attack whilst at the same time authorising an airstrike in Syria. You say potato I say...

Fentanyl kills twice as many Americans than Coke .Fentanyl is mostly knocked up in China .
He could start some s*** with them ...
OxyContin which is manufactured in USA and overprescribed by doctors kills 1000s , more than cocaine .

The claim that this is about stopping drugs and a narco trafficker is second to the bogus claim of weapons of mass destruction .

Yes i will not miss the likes of Maduro

But remember Trump pardonned a convicted drug trafficker from Central America and pardoned the founder of the ' the Silk Road ' another drug procurement site .

But yeah some of you on here just keep drinking that MAGA kool aid .
You can't help it .. it's a cult ting

 

[Stirlingsays]

So the USA is going to steal their oil, and manipulate sales/exports.

And maybe something similar to their drugs exports. Maybe a big tax 😀

America doesn't need the money as such, but the control of oil exports is significant to others

It most certainly does......Everybody does.

Proportionally it's more in debt than us.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Fentanyl kills twice as many Americans than Coke .Fentanyl is mostly knocked up in China .
He could start some s*** with them ...
OxyContin which is manufactured in USA and overprescribed by doctors kills 1000s , more than cocaine .

The claim that this is about stopping drugs and a narco trafficker is second to the bogus claim of weapons of mass destruction .

Yes i will not miss the likes of Maduro

But remember Trump pardonned a convicted drug trafficker from Central America and pardoned the founder of the ' the Silk Road ' another drug procurement site .

But yeah some of you on here just keep drinking that MAGA kool aid .
You can't help it .. it's a cult ting

? Who has been saying it's about drugs?

It's obviously multifaceted, with oil being a big factor but only one of several.

Drugs are a minor aspect.....and they aren't going to come out with the others.....though to be fair, Trump did talk about the Monroe Doctrine....which surprised me.

 

[Spindle]

There is a very big difference between opposing someone you believe is a dictator and acting like one. Providing support and encouragement for internal groups who request it and truly approve of democracy can, sometimes, be rationalised and defended.

Not this. This is the act of a bully. All the previous excuses about trying to control drug smuggling are shown up as bs. This is about regional dominance and the stealing of oil. Trump doesn’t care about the people there, let alone about their right to democratic government.

This will create chaos and a flood of refugees. How it plays in the USA remains to be seen, but for someone who likes to pose as a peacemaker Trump is rather too fond of using violence against the weak to justify his claims.

Lol you demonstrate your stupidity again.

Chavez may have upset the USA by being socialist but he was loved. Madura took over and wasn't chosen to do so. He then went on to butcher the economy whilst telling everyone how great he was. He fiddled two elections, the last one being a landslide against him, and went on to have his men shoot to kill and run over the protesters in their vehicles, in his streets. During his dictatorship thousands have disappeared and 7 million fled the country.

Biden did nothing about him, nothing. Trump is going to be loved by Venezuelans for this act, they've already been filmed in the streets celebrating, yet here you are trying to lay the boot in. What a clown.

 

[Spindle]

There’s not a snowflakes chance in hell that either Obama or Biden would have openly pulled a stunt like this. If they believed it was necessary then it would have been either covert or via surrogates.

Well it was covert. And Obama DID pull a stunt like this, entering sovereign Pakistan to raid Bin Laden's compound. The Pakistanis did not know.

Obama also sent a surge into Afghanistan and at the same time was dumb enough to tell the enemy how many troops and for how long. They withdrew and waited it out.
Biden withdrew in chaos completely, awful scenes as the enemy entered Kabul.

Your geopolitical knowledge is abysmal

 

[Badger11]

Fentanyl kills twice as many Americans than Coke .Fentanyl is mostly knocked up in China .
He could start some s*** with them ...
OxyContin which is manufactured in USA and overprescribed by doctors kills 1000s , more than cocaine .

The claim that this is about stopping drugs and a narco trafficker is second to the bogus claim of weapons of mass destruction .

Yes i will not miss the likes of Maduro

But remember Trump pardonned a convicted drug trafficker from Central America and pardoned the founder of the ' the Silk Road ' another drug procurement site .

But yeah some of you on here just keep drinking that MAGA kool aid .
You can't help it .. it's a cult ting

Yeah let's not worry about 22,000 people pa. It's not just deaths, it's the burden on healthcare and law enforcement and all the other social problems.

And the first thing I said was that Trump has an ulterior motive so no Kool Aid here, just happen to agree with a robust response. And yes I agree that something needs to be done about Fentanyl as well.

U.S. Overdose Deaths Decrease Almost 27% in 2024

Provisional statistics on overdose deaths through December 2024

www.cdc.gov

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

So obamas drone strikes and Biden's proxy wars were smart and "covert" but Trump's direct action to free Venezuela from socialist hell is a "stunt". Give over 🤣

Bold leadership scares you snowflakes.

You said they were smart, not me!

This isn’t “bold leadership” at all. It’s ridiculous to describe this as leadership. Who on earth do you think it is leading and what is the intended destination?

It’s a reckless enterprise without a clear strategic objective. Doing what has been done is very easy for a military power as strong as the USA. It’s what happens next and in the coming years that’s not.

This looks extremely foolish which will demand a lot of effort to stabilise and reverse by the next POTUS, whoever, whenever and how ever they get appointed.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Glenn Greenwald talks about some of the other aspects for why this happened......though I think there are a couple more reasons as well.

 

[eritheagle]

? Who has been saying it's about drugs?

It's obviously multifaceted, with oil being a big factor but only one of several.

Drugs are a minor aspect.....and they aren't going to come out with the others.....though to be fair, Trump did talk about the Monroe Doctrine....which surprised me.

they reported on news today that the venezuan president has been arrested and held on drug charges.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I don't know about Biden but Obama certainly would.

Obama green lit the special forces operation to kill Bin Laden (and they only thought it was him, they weren't certain), it was extremely risky on major fronts and could have been a disaster.

Both operations for confronting the leaders was a stealth operation and was undetected by defence forces.

This one was harder in the sense that they would have expected more fire power in the Palace than at the covert location Bin Laden was hiding at, but the Bin Laden operation was more risky as they weren't allowed to attack Pakistan's forces unless engaged..... The rules of engagement prioritized avoiding confrontation with Pakistani military or security forces.....whereas here they built a force large enough to attack large military locations to confuse and distract.

Getting out with nothing going wrong and no losses is an amazing feat and extremely professional and probably a bit fortunate.

There is no analogy with the surgical strike on Bin Laden. You claim, in your know it all way, that they weren’t certain it was him. I suspect they were pretty sure and if they had arrived there and found it wasn’t, we would have not heard anything about it!

They haven’t just gone in to extract a man they held responsible for thousands of deaths and then leave again. They plan to run the country.

 

[silvertop]

There is a very big difference between opposing someone you believe is a dictator and acting like one. Providing support and encouragement for internal groups who request it and truly approve of democracy can, sometimes, be rationalised and defended.

Not this. This is the act of a bully. All the previous excuses about trying to control drug smuggling are shown up as bs. This is about regional dominance and the stealing of oil. Trump doesn’t care about the people there, let alone about their right to democratic government.

This will create chaos and a flood of refugees. How it plays in the USA remains to be seen, but for someone who likes to pose as a peacemaker Trump is rather too fond of using violence against the weak to justify his claims.

I agree the first paragraphs but we will have to wait on the last. It might work. It might not.

Of interest people on here largely support this action but oppose Putin. Almost identical. Regime change by military force. But apparently - Trump good Putin bad but with no good explanation for the difference.

 

[Stirlingsays]

they reported on news today that the venezuan president has been arrested and held on drug charges.

Cool, but he was referring to this forum.

The point being that he contends that we believe that this happened because of the drugs, which is of course ridiculous.

Drugs from there into the States are a minor issue compared to other countries.

It was the excuse that they tried a few weeks ago but they heard the ridicule and in the latest press conference gave other far more realistic reasons......Oil, Monroe Doctrine, drugs.....they didn't mention the military industrial complex and geopolitical reasons.

 

[Badger11]

I agree the first paragraphs but we will have to wait on the last. It might work. It might not.

Of interest people on here largely support this action but oppose Putin. Almost identical. Regime change by military force. But apparently - Trump good Putin bad but with no good explanation for the difference.

I agree with you and said so from the start. The US does not tolerate any interference in what it considers is its sphere of influence (Americas) the west is happy with that but when Russia and China do the same it's wrong.

Some commentators have said that Trump has "dusted off" the Monroe doctrine, err no he hasn't dusted off anything. The Monroe doctrine has been the corner stone of American foreign policy for the last 200 years, Trump is only doing what many other US presidents have done before. Whether it is right is another matter.

 

[silvertop]

I don't know about Biden but Obama certainly would.

Obama green lit the special forces operation to kill Bin Laden (and they only thought it was him, they weren't certain), it was extremely risky on major fronts and could have been a disaster.

Both operations for confronting the leaders was a stealth operation and was undetected by defence forces.

This one was harder in the sense that they would have expected more fire power in the Palace than at the covert location Bin Laden was hiding at, but the Bin Laden operation was more risky as they weren't allowed to attack Pakistan's forces unless engaged..... The rules of engagement prioritized avoiding confrontation with Pakistani military or security forces.....whereas here they built a force large enough to attack large military locations to confuse and distract.

Getting out with nothing going wrong and no losses is an amazing feat and extremely professional and probably a bit fortunate.

Yes but OBL involved an extra judicial murder in a sovereign nation without that country's consent. Wrong on every front save the c**t taken out for whom not a wink was lost.

And killing that man involved no regime change of a sovereign state to seize oil. A better comparison would be the second Gulf war. And look how that turned out.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I agree the first paragraphs but we will have to wait on the last. It might work. It might not.

Of interest people on here largely support this action but oppose Putin. Almost identical. Regime change by military force. But apparently - Trump good Putin bad but with no good explanation for the difference.

Why do we have to have a position?

The US would have most definitely done what Putin did if they saw an enemy government emerge on a border country.

The Monroe Doctrine isn't exclusive to Trump.....it's essentially US policy whenever it feels like it. Bush senior did this back in the 80s.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Lol you demonstrate your stupidity again.

Chavez may have upset the USA by being socialist but he was loved. Madura took over and wasn't chosen to do so. He then went on to butcher the economy whilst telling everyone how great he was. He fiddled two elections, the last one being a landslide against him, and went on to have his men shoot to kill and run over the protesters in their vehicles, in his streets. During his dictatorship thousands have disappeared and 7 million fled the country.

Biden did nothing about him, nothing. Trump is going to be loved by Venezuelans for this act, they've already been filmed in the streets celebrating, yet here you are trying to lay the boot in. What a clown.

Leaving aside what you demonstrate again with your rudeness, even if every word you write was true, which is open to doubt, it does not, and cannot, justify this action.

The USA is supposed to be the leader of the Western World, the flag carrier for democracy. Not the bully boy of the Americas behaving in the same way as the autocratic regimes the Western World despises.

This then, together with the support shown for Putin, is the clearest signal possible of the Trump regime’s pivot away from democracy to authoritarianism. It started when he refused to accept an election result. Where will it end? Will Congress stop him?

That Venezuelans in the USA have reacted well says nothing about how the people there feel. Those people left, possibly entering the USA illegally. From all I read the current feeling there is of being scared. Trump doesn’t care about them.

 

[Frenchaigle]

Lol you demonstrate your stupidity again.

Chavez may have upset the USA by being socialist but he was loved. Madura took over and wasn't chosen to do so. He then went on to butcher the economy whilst telling everyone how great he was. He fiddled two elections, the last one being a landslide against him, and went on to have his men shoot to kill and run over the protesters in their vehicles, in his streets. During his dictatorship thousands have disappeared and 7 million fled the country.

Biden did nothing about him, nothing. Trump is going to be loved by Venezuelans for this act, they've already been filmed in the streets celebrating, yet here you are trying to lay the boot in. What a clown.

Trump did nothing about him during his first term .

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yes but OBL involved an extra judicial murder in a sovereign nation without that country's consent. Wrong on every front save the c**t taken out for whom not a wink was lost.

And killing that man involved no regime change of a sovereign state to seize oil. A better comparison would be the second Gulf war. And look how that turned out.

What actually happens in Venezuela and what Trump says aren't necessary the same thing.

I think his plan to take resources without significant boots on the ground is unrealistic.....just as his plan to take Ukraine's minerals is.....It's just going to get sabotaged and frustrated. It doesn't even have to be insurgency attacks...though it's bound to happen.

Trump thinks that the kind of bully boy deals you can do in the New York estate business translate to real world politics. It can be done up to an extent, but not when you talk about running other countries and taking their resources.

That said, I can admire a well run military operation that took out a bad leader.....Even though it's more of a stunt that killed a lot of people with probably little end result....much like Bush in the 80s.

 

[Frenchaigle]

I agree with you and said so from the start. The US does not tolerate any interference in what it considers is its sphere of influence (Americas) the west is happy with that but when Russia and China do the same it's wrong.

Some commentators have said that Trump has "dusted off" the Monroe doctrine, err no he hasn't dusted off anything. The Monroe doctrine has been the corner stone of American foreign policy for the last 200 years, Trump is only doing what many other US presidents have done before. Whether it is right is another matter.

He was voted in on …the no more wars ,no more foreign interventions .
I mean there are u turns and policy tacks but this is a whopper .

 

[Stirlingsays]

Trump did nothing about him during his first term .

That's because he was against this kind of thing back then.

For various reasons he's changed his mind on the 'no more wars' line.....Well, he lied about it back in 2024 to be honest. Ever since he won he's been quite open about starting wars.