Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
England
I generally follow debates. I don’t lead, nor deliberately divert. You want to stay on subject? Fine. It’s Reform. Not me!
Reform
- Topic starter Stirlingsays
- Start date
DANGERCLOSE
Member
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- London
- Country
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England
According to the impartial BBC this is a claim while others say it's true. Time will tell.
Reform claims to now have more members than Labour
Nigel Farage's party says it has overtaken Labour to have more members than any other party in the UK.www.bbc.com
Stirlingsays
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- Country
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England
DANGERCLOSE
Member
- Location
- London
- Country
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England
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
For those obsessed with Brexit and the narrative that it's responsible for our economic woes.
In recent years the worst effect on our economy has been Covid.....and it's not close. Ukraine also has a pressure but that's mostly on energy consumers and adding to the national debt and extra future military spending.
None of that is Brexit.
In recent years the worst effect on our economy has been Covid.....and it's not close. Ukraine also has a pressure but that's mostly on energy consumers and adding to the national debt and extra future military spending.
None of that is Brexit.
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
It's not either/or - lots of things impact our current economic predicament, including Brexit.
The idea that rewriting our entire trading framework with the world’s biggest economic bloc could be economically neutral is absurd, whatever other shocks the economy has faced.
Of course some will exaggerate it while others will downplay it, but Brexit is clearly a rather large factor in our economic performance.
One day we as a nation might have an honest conversation about it, but we're not there yet!
Stirlingsays
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- Country
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England
The stats are literally there for you to see mate.
Germany....thanks to the Ukraine war....is in economic freefall.....They are the drivers of the EU....An EU that people like you want to tie us to.
I estimated that the impact of Brexit would affect the economy by 4 percent, I said that at the time. I didn't vote for 'line go up'. However, Brexit's effect on the economy is probably less than 4 percent.
Regardless, outside of the EU, we can.....if we get Reform in....Get rid of the human rights act and other assorted legal structures that have stopped us tackling immigration.
We can't do that within the EU.
Case closed.
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
'The stats' is a screenshot of single GDP graph - c'mon, that doesn't end the discussion.
Even if I accept a figure around 4% or slightly below, that still represents a large, enduring hit to GDP — far greater in scale and persistence than most single policy decisions, and materially different from temporary shocks like Covid or energy price spikes.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
I nearly liked this post until your last point where you called covid policy temporary.....dude, we spent 300 billion or something like that....On top of a debt economy that was already impossible to pull back.
That's not temporary, it's the very opposite.
Ukraine war.....Yes the possibility that energy prices can be pulled back at some point exists, but at the moment the solution to getting back to anything like it was before is looking unlikely. But yes, it's technically possible (but unlikely) given the policy choices chosen. So you calling it a 'spike' is also a tad annoying.....A lot of poor people today are out there having to chose behind heating their homes or eating you know and that's been for years now......Some 'spike'.
But your point that one graph about economic performance isn't the whole picture is a valid one.
I was just making the point that those who tried to paint a picture of collapse and dramatic decline, were wrong back in 2016 and many are still pushing that stuff today.
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
4% of GDP is ~£100bn - so Brexit is 'causing a Covid (economically)' every 3 years, based on your own numbers.
Sure, and those who tried to paint a picture of a utopia with more money to invest into infrastructure and public services and 'oven-ready trade deals' were also wrong, and many are back asking for us to vote for them again.
There’s no doubting the charisma of its leader, but Reform UK lacks the depth and experience needed to govern – and voters are quickly realising that. It lacks the depth,quality ,experience and machine to govern electors have worked it out expect the opinion polls to reflect that this year,it has already narrowed in Labour,s favour.
Yeah. I wonder if there are behind the scene machinations towards a union of Reform and the Tory party. Then they could highlight the Tory experience of being in government.
Far too ferrets in a sack to succeed,far too many egos trying to drive the car. it has logic but bad blood abounds.
Yeah. Suppose so but when it comes to seeking power, it's amazing how accommodating parties can be. (temporarily).
I said long ago that I could see a joining of the two with Farrage as leader.
Not possible?
(Metaphors or what. 'Ferrets in a sack', 'car', 'blood': sounds like serious charges could be brought by the RSPCA lol.)
The Tories would be crazy to turn this down unless they cannot work with Farage. He does seem the type to not play nicely with others.
I hate coalition governments as the voters often end up with something they didn't want, unless of course the pact is announced before the election.
Common Sense Club
Member
- Country
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England
Not sure a pre election pact would be forthcoming; more likely ‘weak’ candidates would be put up against stronger alternatives, then a coalition announced once the voting is finalised and who is seen to be in the best position to be the dominant party. My guess is that both parties do not want a further labour term at any cost thereby forcing a coalition if no one party has a majority.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
I stated it's probably less than that.
The true picture is hard to calculate, especially when the space is dominated by those with agendas.
As I said, there are factors aside from the economic and most people who voted leave, weren't voting about economics.....which is why the elite betrayal of its implementation shows that democracy is largely myth.
Regardless, the EU is in dire straits economically, as is Europe generally thanks to the decline in elites.
Both sides lied.....Are you new to politics lad?
As for voting again.....Well, when we joined the common market which morphed into something very different (another whole set of lying there as well) the British people were denied a vote on leaving or staying for forty years.....despite polls, despite much complaining and all the rest of it.
This so called 'democracy', much as it doesn't care about public opinion on other matters denied a vote on the EU......So you wanting a vote on joining within ten years has to be seen within the context of that.
And the only reason we even had a vote was because Cameron wanted to play party politics and didn't think he'd lose.
If justice is done, you'll get you vote.....you just have another thirty years to wait.
Proven.
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
Regardless, it doesn't make sense to present Covid as this mammoth event which is responsible for everything economically wrong, while simultaneously dismissing Brexit as largely irrelevant, despite it having the same impact every 3-4 years on a recurring basis. To look at it another way; we could have a Covid every 5 years, and still wouldn't be as bad off economically as if we just did Brexit.
I'm not sure why you're patronising me on politicians lying - it was your point made that some Remainers lied, but I didn't lead with a retort of; 'some politicians lied..? No s*** lad!'
If you'd slow down and take a breath, my reference to 'voting for them again' was a reference to Farage and co. being back asking for our votes with precisely the same pitch under a different name.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Brexit is important as it allows Britain to deal with immigration if a right wing government gets in.....That isn't the Tories due to the lies....and the fact that the civil service is massively remain.
As Cummings states, nothing changes until a new broom removes all the blocks and that's what most people who voted leave wanted.....for Immigration to be sorted out.....and they and I were betrayed.
If you write posts that only mention one side lying during that referendum then you are going to receive sarcasm.
Well, the opinion polls show you that the EU isn't a major factor in people's choice of vote.
It's mostly the concern of activists on either side.
Farage is a polarising figure but despite all the desperate dirty tactics being applied to him he's ahead by a significant amount. That's because the majority in the country know the neo and social liberals/mainstream left have failed the country and dirty tactics aren't a basis for changing voting patterns.
Farage deserves his chance at power simply on the basis that it's his turn.....but few imagine Reform can turn it around....Hopefully I'm wrong but the economic rot runs too deep in my opinion. It doesn't matter who is in power, Labour/Tories/Reform.
But I'll have Reform because at least they don't hate the white working class, which is my demographic.....The Tories decided to become social liberals and Labour detest the likes of me and wish I didn't exist.....except in the case of the younger likes of me signing up to fight Russia of course....fighting for tranny rights and pride parades.
Neither Labour nor the Tories deserve power.
Both are probably going to resort to coalitions to even get a sniff at partial power.....and as I say, neither deserve it
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