Reform

[georgenorman]

You are missing the point completely.

It’s obviously true that in our youth, when standards were very different, most of us would have said or done things we would not now.

Farage is different. For three reasons. Firstly, because he aspires to be PM. We don’t. Secondly, what’s reported is a lot worse than anything I ever encountered. Thirdly, he doesn’t clearly state that his views have changed. He only claims he never meant things personally. Which is a very damning statement.

In their younger days, Peter Mandleson, Denis Healy, John Reid, Eric Heffer, Bob Mellish and Charles Clarke were all members of the Communist Party.
Jack Straw, Alan Johnson and the Milliband brothers were fellow travelers.
That didn't seem to bar them from office?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It doesn't matter how successful Reform may or may not be. They deserve their chance.

The Tories betrayed us.

Even now they support speech laws that make us a mockery with countries that have real right wings. The Tories introduced and enforced most of the 'woke' laws and regulations that they pretend to be against.

Their base are majority Cameron, May and Sunak fans.

You staying with them just means you prefer your 'bubble' to the harsh reality that much of your party's MP base is much more left wing than you are.

Maybe....and it's very much a maybe, if the Tories 'reform' to be more right wing than where Reform are... when Reform eventually come to government then there might be a chance of survival on the right.

But personally I think it's more likely the right of the party will be forced out and it'll become the 'centralist' party that it's always wanted to be since Blair.

It's the 'heir to Blair' party......Sunak and Hunt were literally fan boys for him.

The Tories deserve everything that it's getting.....Even today it just doesn't get it.

I think it’s you who doesn’t get it!

The right in our country is a minority. As is the left. The majority are in the centre. They swing towards the right, or the left, depending on circumstances. The primary circumstance being who has last been in power and actually had to do unpopular things compared to those who have only had to make promises.

You confirm this with your “Reform deserve their chance”. A typically naive statement!

People have swung to Reform because they are making completely undeliverable promises about issues that have confounded the serious politicians for many years. Our country has been bombarded by many problems in the last decade that no government, of any type, would have been able to deal with and remain popular.

The last thing the Tories need to do is attempt to go further to the right than Reform. Competing for the fringe voter of a minority group is suicidal.

The only secure place is to occupy the middle ground, tell the truth, propose sensible policies that people can understand and believe in, destroy the rhetoric, ambiguity, implausibly and unaffordable nature of Reform whilst hammering their total lack of experience.

The Tories need to recapture the votes they lost to Labour and ignore the right. To do this they must first cleanse themselves of those elements within the party who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Those who think like Farage but can’t bring themselves to leave. They must help them out the door.

The result would almost certainly be that no party would hold sufficient seats in 2029 to form a government on their own. Better that than a Reform government. Better a coalition of the centre than a period of chaos from the right.

We must see whether the Tories have both the nous and sufficient desire to serve the national interest to do this. Getting rid of Badenoch and sidelining those on the right has to be the first step. Regrettably I am not convinced they do. Unlike you it seems.

The Tories must think long term or they will paint themselves into a corner from which there is no escape.

 

[cryrst]

I think it’s you who doesn’t get it!

The right in our country is a minority. As is the left. The majority are in the centre. They swing towards the right, or the left, depending on circumstances. The primary circumstance being who has last been in power and actually had to do unpopular things compared to those who have only had to make promises.

You confirm this with your “Reform deserve their chance”. A typically naive statement!

People have swung to Reform because they are making completely undeliverable promises about issues that have confounded the serious politicians for many years. Our country has been bombarded by many problems in the last decade that no government, of any type, would have been able to deal with and remain popular.

The last thing the Tories need to do is attempt to go further to the right than Reform. Competing for the fringe voter of a minority group is suicidal.

The only secure place is to occupy the middle ground, tell the truth, propose sensible policies that people can understand and believe in, destroy the rhetoric, ambiguity, implausibly and unaffordable nature of Reform whilst hammering their total lack of experience.

The Tories need to recapture the votes they lost to Labour and ignore the right. To do this they must first cleanse themselves of those elements within the party who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Those who think like Farage but can’t bring themselves to leave. They must help them out the door.

The result would almost certainly be that no party would hold sufficient seats in 2029 to form a government on their own. Better that than a Reform government. Better a coalition of the centre than a period of chaos from the right.

We must see whether the Tories have both the nous and sufficient desire to serve the national interest to do this. Getting rid of Badenoch and sidelining those on the right has to be the first step. Regrettably I am not convinced they do. Unlike you it seems.

The Tories must think long term or they will paint themselves into a corner from which there is no escape.

You cannot be pure centre
Centre left or right. Sitting on the fence is the only other place and taking it hard !

 

[georgenorman]

"Your Party" descends into even more chaos, Sultana has walked out - the Left just can't help themselves!

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think it’s you who doesn’t get it!

The right in our country is a minority. As is the left. The majority are in the centre. They swing towards the right, or the left, depending on circumstances. The primary circumstance being who has last been in power and actually had to do unpopular things compared to those who have only had to make promises.

You confirm this with your “Reform deserve their chance”. A typically naive statement!

People have swung to Reform because they are making completely undeliverable promises about issues that have confounded the serious politicians for many years. Our country has been bombarded by many problems in the last decade that no government, of any type, would have been able to deal with and remain popular.

The last thing the Tories need to do is attempt to go further to the right than Reform. Competing for the fringe voter of a minority group is suicidal.

The only secure place is to occupy the middle ground, tell the truth, propose sensible policies that people can understand and believe in, destroy the rhetoric, ambiguity, implausibly and unaffordable nature of Reform whilst hammering their total lack of experience.

The Tories need to recapture the votes they lost to Labour and ignore the right. To do this they must first cleanse themselves of those elements within the party who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Those who think like Farage but can’t bring themselves to leave. They must help them out the door.

The result would almost certainly be that no party would hold sufficient seats in 2029 to form a government on their own. Better that than a Reform government. Better a coalition of the centre than a period of chaos from the right.

We must see whether the Tories have both the nous and sufficient desire to serve the national interest to do this. Getting rid of Badenoch and sidelining those on the right has to be the first step. Regrettably I am not convinced they do. Unlike you it seems.

The Tories must think long term or they will paint themselves into a corner from which there is no escape.

You are utterly wrong as usual, but entitled to your opinion.

I have some sympathy with your implied view about the public thinking in terms of musical chairs being the answer to solving the country's problems.....I could agree to some extent with that as I don't think Reform or indeed any party can succeed in turning the country around because the rot is far too set in. That rot has been implemented by both Labour and Tory governments of the last thirty years.....basically people like you screwed the country sir.

Reform will try some warmed up Thatcherism and it's going to p1ss off all the right people.....and while I don't have ill feeling towards the innocents who will be adversely affected (as most people aren't activists) I am at least looking forward to a serious attempt at changing course.

Yes, I won't deny I'm looking forward to the start of a fight back by the right in the country.....When I say 'right' I don't mean the establishment Tories who have taken the country down just as hard as Labour.

Reform are tepid on many social policies but at least it's a start.

However, they deserve their chance to prove me wrong.....unlike the other two showers.

 

[georgenorman]

You are utterly wrong as usual, but entitled to your opinion.

I have some sympathy with your implied view about the public thinking in terms of musical chairs being the answer to solving the country's problems.....I could agree to some extent with that as I don't think Reform or indeed any party can succeed in turning the country around because the rot is far too set in. That rot has been implemented by both Labour and Tory governments of the last thirty years.....basically people like you screwed the country sir.

Reform will try some warmed up Thatcherism and it's going to p1ss off all the right people.....and while I don't have ill feeling towards the innocents who will be adversely affected (as most people aren't activists) I am at least looking forward to a serious attempt at changing course.

Yes, I won't deny I'm looking forward to the start of a fight back by the right in the country.....When I say 'right' I don't mean the establishment Tories who have taken the country down just as hard as Labour.

Reform are tepid on many social policies but at least it's a start.

However, they deserve their chance to prove me wrong.....unlike the other two showers.

Spot on - very much how I feel about Reform.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Positive words from Suella Braverman, hopefully she joins Reform before the next election.