Palace potentially denied entry to Europa League?

[Putitout]

I know it’s just chat gpt but asked it to look at the corresponding Lyon forums to see how they felt their chances of success at appeal were. It doesn’t make great reading. View attachment 1416View attachment 1417

That makes it sound as if Palace will never know in time to properly prepare. It’s disgraceful.

 

[inflikted]

Nigel Farage is a Palace fan! Please help your club Nige!

He'll do as much for Palace as he has done for the people of Clacton.

 

[Sportyteacher]

But if it's purely on this joke of a '1st March' rule then surely Lyon are also in breach of this so neither team should be allowed to enter. The whole thing is an absolute farce and we have the right to be fuming if we don't get in. They've bent over backwards to give 'big' clubs safe passage before.

This.

 

[RubinsCube]

This is the way I see it and it should be considered against a background of what UEFA are trying to stop in the first place, which is the opportunity to corrupt the result of a match due to a decisive influence at multiple clubs. I do not know whether the burden of proof is on UEFA to prove an owner has the potential to be corrupt at a particular club or whether the club has to prove that their ownership model prevents such a situation occurring.

I cannot find an answer to this.

There are four distinct points in play.

1) Lyon in or out? From what I have read they will only definitely be out of the Europa League if they are relegated. If they are relegated then this is the best possible scenario for UEFA as they will not have to make any decisions relative to Palace, as any potential conflict of interest and breach of rules will be removed by Lyon not being in the competition. If Lyon are not relegated and remain in the competition then UEFA will be forced into making a decision on Palace.

As a cynic I would say UEFA are stalling to await the answer to this as it gets them out of the mess they have created.

2) The second part of this revolves around whether Palace have done anything wrong at all. Palace will likely have been arguing throughout that this was the case. It has been well discussed that Textor has never had a decisive influence when it comes to control of the club. 43% (30% singularly owned and 13% Eagle Holdings) translate to only a 25% vote that is further watered down by the fact Parish holds a deciding vote in the event of a tie between the 4 main board Directors.

3) Thirdly, a forensic examination of why UEFA allowed a work around for other clubs and then, why it changed the dates for compliance to this work around from a date after the season completed to one well before it completed thereby effectively excluding those qualifying via a cup route utilising this workaround.

4) Recent events include Textors sale of his shares at Palace (still unconfirmed) and his more recent resignation from Lyon, however the underlying issue here is whether UEFA consider that the damage was done prior to Textor no longer being part of the equation. No doubt this will become a specific date dependent argument, although you could argue Palace have breached no rules until they kick a football in the competition and Textor involvement and conflict of interest will be long gone by then.

My gut feeling is that Palace will play in the Europa league and my reading of a lack of response from UEFA is them looking for the easiest way out of this situation, however I can’t discount that the Forest owner hasn’t been kicking up a storm and greasing a few palms.

I certainly don’t see this a case however of if Lyon are in, then Palace are out. A lot more in play I reckon. Never a dull moment as a Palace fan.

My understanding on this point is that the CFCB (Club Financial Control Body) established there was a case for Palace to answer based on JT's equity holdings in Lyon and Palace. Hence the first meeting SP and JT had with UEFA officials a couple of weeks ago.

This would infer to me that the burden of proof is on the club to demonstrate eligibility to CFCB's satisfaction.

I have a vague recollection it was reported as such either in tv coverage or maybe on TalkSport where they brought in an expert.

This was all a few weeks ago. What is clear since then is that there is no clear set of rules. It feels to me like Palace are in the process of getting shafted. But let's see.

 

[est1905]

Textor has been trying to sell his shares in Palace for nearly 2 years. Putting your shares in a Blind Trust means you have no control over them, not a great idea if you are trying to sell them.

On this point I don't blame Textor.

This is a point myself (and others) have repeatedly tried to make but some on here just dont seem to get it.
Say you own a car and are desperate to sell it. You're not going to let your brother take his family down to Cornwall in it for two weeks are you? You're going to say sorry bruv, but a buyer might come in for it and I dont want to miss the boat.
Its the same thing (ish). Textor was never putting his shares in a blind trust for reasons which at the time were so remote (you could probably have got over 11/1 on Palace winning the FA cup in March) that he probably saw it as an almost impossibility that we'd qualify for Europe when he was trying to sell those shares and probably thought there was a very good chance someone would have bought them from him before FA cup final day anyway.
And even if all of that does go against him (which it did) we'd STILL have qualified for Europe if it hadn't been for Lyon qualifying for the same competition!

 

[est1905]

I think complacency was the big issue for Textor. Early in the year, we were miles away from winning anything, and our league position wasn't anything to shout about.
When I was running my own small business, with regards to financial planning (done every few months), there would always be the "what if something unexpected happens" scenario put in, so we had risk to a minimum.
Being kind to Textor, you would say it was an oversight, or a risk he was willing to take, because it was a real long shot winning the FA cup, or storming up the Premier League.
Being pragmatic, it was a major fck-up by Textor, especially when you consider the amounts of money involved, and the situation Palace are in now. Fine, if it was just his money he was playing the odds with. But having everyone else's money attached to his poor decision-making is the real ball-ache here. Let's hope Textor can find a way out of Palace, before he causes any more damage.

Just cant agree with that. You would not have handicapped yourself in reducing control in your own small business for a 'what if'. I just dont believe that sorry. I have a business and trying to look at it in Textor's shoes I dont think I'd have done anything differently to what he did. There's risk management and then theres plain hide under your bed in case something bad happens. No one does that.

 

[pssguy]

The only option for our board is to assume the worst, get on and sign some of those players we’re interested in where the immediate attraction is PL football rather than Championship football next season, and keep Eze and Guehi until such time as UEFA decides if we are allowed to play. Easier said than done I know and not ideal when you don’t know if you have the bonus of Europa league money but better than doing nothing til UEFA finally reach a decision.

Eze has a release clause until mid-August so if that is activated and he wants a move, Palace have no control

 

[mileend]

I know it’s just chat gpt but asked it to look at the corresponding Lyon forums to see how they felt their chances of success at appeal were. It doesn’t make great reading. View attachment 1416View attachment 1417

I'd expect them to be optimistic though the past treatment of Marseille and Bordeaux should give them pause for thought. Major clubs relegated.

Interestingly they are already counting the money from the Palace shares. Firstly, that's not gone through and may not by the time of the appeal.

I don't doubt it will go through but if it's after the appeal will the French authorities take the promise of it happening and all the funds being raised then being sent Lyon's way. Textor says he wants to buy another UK team. But he has promised to hand the money over so I'm sure that's fine.

French football in a bit of a state. They don't even have a TV deal for next season yet having broken the DAZN contract. So income streams might be a bit wobbly for Ligue 1 teams. Will the Palace 200m be enough to stabilise the 450m debt pile?

 

[Eaglecoops]

I’m not sure why this March 1st date has become so important. It was nothing other than the date for submitting paperwork to use their, frankly spurious, workaround that most definitely does not prevent an owner from having influence. On paper perhaps it does but do you think the Forest owner having put his shares in a blind trust, stopped running his business. Hell no is the answer to that.

If they are going to use that date to beat Palace up then we should sue them for everything they have. There is not a chance that Palace have ever put themselves into a position where one of their Directors could influence the result of a game.

It’s utterly crazy, ‘sledgehammer to crack a walnut’ politics being played.

I do await the final decision as to whether this is the case however and Palace should have their solicitors prepared similarly, which I’m sure they have.

 

[pssguy]

This could rumble on for a couple of months. As many have surmised, UEFA wants the decision taken out of their hands. If Lyon's appeal (no date known for judgement) fails, they can still take it to the CAS. The normal period they take is months although this will probably be expedited given the time constraints.

The draw for the Europa group stages is 29 August with the transfer window shutting two days later. So last minute deals again with Parish saying ' Sorry Oliver, out of my hands'. I just hope no sought-after managerial positions come open before then

 

[Common Sense Club]

I’m not sure why this March 1st date has become so important. It was nothing other than the date for submitting paperwork to use their, frankly spurious, workaround that most definitely does not prevent an owner from having influence. On paper perhaps it does but do you think the Forest owner having put his shares in a blind trust, stopped running his business. Hell no is the answer to that.

If they are going to use that date to beat Palace up then we should sue them for everything they have. There is not a chance that Palace have ever put themselves into a position where one of their Directors could influence the result of a game.

It’s utterly crazy, ‘sledgehammer to crack a walnut’ politics being played.

I do await the final decision as to whether this is the case however and Palace should have their solicitors prepared similarly, which I’m sure they have.

I suggest that the club 'lean on' the Football Association as, if Palace are banned from the Europa Cup competition, then it tends to devalue winning the FA Cup, which is the most world renowned domestic club football tournament. It's not going to look very good for them; they have a vested interest too.

 

[pssguy]

This is a point myself (and others) have repeatedly tried to make but some on here just dont seem to get it.
Say you own a car and are desperate to sell it. You're not going to let your brother take his family down to Cornwall in it for two weeks are you? You're going to say sorry bruv, but a buyer might come in for it and I dont want to miss the boat.
Its the same thing (ish). Textor was never putting his shares in a blind trust for reasons which at the time were so remote (you could probably have got over 11/1 on Palace winning the FA cup in March) that he probably saw it as an almost impossibility that we'd qualify for Europe when he was trying to sell those shares and probably thought there was a very good chance someone would have bought them from him before FA cup final day anyway.
And even if all of that does go against him (which it did) we'd STILL have qualified for Europe if it hadn't been for Lyon qualifying for the same competition!

If someone had come to Textor with a share offer, then he could have revoked the blind trust quickly, as per the Forest chairman taking back control once Forest were no longer in champions league contention.
If he had no influence on the club, there would have been no downside to placing them into a blind trust prior to March 1 until the end of the season. Just because the odds are long does not mean the insurance shouldnt have been taken out. It's much more unlikely my house will be swept away by a tornado, but I still insure against it.

 

[est1905]

Time to get the FA off their backsides. It’s about their competition winner and they have direct access to Uefa. I have asked my MP (his constituency backs onto Whitehorse Lane) to get the Minister for Culture Media and Sport to kick them into action. If you can do the same we might get something done or even a question in PMQs. Oh for a Regulator to get the job done for us.

We could always try a mass online picket of Uefa. It worked a treat when we were trying to get out of administration.

I doubt the FA carry much clout with UEFA but I agree even a phone call or email from Mark Bullingham throwing his support behind their competition winners and earning some of his £1.3m salary instead of quaffing Champers with the UEFA bigwigs after the U21s final would be something!

 

[NEILLO]

If someone had come to Textor with a share offer, then he could have revoked the blind trust quickly, as per the Forest chairman taking back control once Forest were no longer in champions league contention.
If he had no influence on the club, there would have been no downside to placing them into a blind trust prior to March 1 until the end of the season. Just because the odds are long does not mean the insurance shouldnt have been taken out. It's much more unlikely my house will be swept away by a tornado, but I still insure against it.

Here we go again ……so at what point should Textor have placed his shares into a Blind Trust ? When ??

If you’re comparing it to an insurance policy, an analogy I don’t accept , then you might as well conclude that anyone with exposure or possible exposure to breaching MCO rules should place their shares into a Blind Trust on a season by season basis. Then the decision is which clubs shares should be selected ? One of them , some of them ?

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

UEFA have to get the Palace decision right, not just for us. But because it could a precedent in case law, if challenged, which might open the flood gates to other appeals by clubs, which would swamp UEFA in legal cases.
Don't think they are just being pi55y to Palace. UEFA have realised the fragility of their rules and situation , and are just desperate to get any decision absolutely spot-on

 

[est1905]

The players return for pre-season this week. Early August and it all starts again.
This situation must be causing all sorts of problems on the transfer front. OG made it very clear how important it is to get business done early even in a normal season. If we don’t lose anyone the squad is just about OK for league duty , add a European campaign in and no it’s not. Can’t blame the club for holding tight, it’s a mess.

Palace may well be looking to push ahead with targets regardless and hope we're not a bit top heavy on squad numbers if we dont get in.
Its more likely to be players that are refusing to sign unless we have confirmation we can offer them European football. The goalkeeper we just signed had offers elsewhere but chose Palace because he thought we offered European football. I'll bet he's started biting his finger nails now!

 

[doombear]

It doesn’t look good. If the French league are totally honest we are OK, a situation that shouldn’t even still be in dispute doesn’t fill me with optimism . It wouldn’t seem we actually had a case of our own , or why have UEFA not ruled purely on that?

Because UEFA are running scared of the matter going to CAS so they are kicking the can down the road as long as possible in the hope that Lyon fail in their appeal against relegation and will not be able to take up their place in the Europa League.

UEFA know that whichever way they jump regarding our participation they will have a tough fight on their hands at CAS, otherwise they would have made their decision ages ago.

 

[dreamwaverider]

Textor has resigned from the board of Lyon.
Eagle football (Textor) has replaced him with Michele Kang, a Korean who lives in USA.
Maybe they feel she will carry a bee=tter chance at keeping Lyon in the top flight.
Textor is reeling.
He has sold out of Palace (thank god). He has resigned from Lyon. He is in the deep dark at Botafogo and he is a wanted man at Molenbeek. So much for his multi club model.
Moral of the post is understand football before jumping in too deep with a disruptive model.

 

[Jefroc]

What I do not understand is this. Palace qualify for the Europa Cup. Then they may be disqualified due to Textor's muliti ownership. Now EUFA are hanging on for the French authorities to confirm Lyon's relegation - Textor again!!! (BTW I bet Evertonians are delighted he didn't take them over!!!!) but what has that to do with EUFA's decision over Textor's multi ownership? Apart from allowing EUFA to sit on the fence!!!

 

[Vaibow]

Eze has a release clause until mid-August so if that is activated and he wants a move, Palace have no control

OG is a top class manager, my stance would be... if you want to stay and play for crystal palace, regardless.. let's do it. Let's kick on... if you are holding the club to ransom because you want to see the options of Europe, jog on...
I'd rather line up with those that want to be there, for palace...than those that won't to pay in Europe... but that's just me.