Our present squad

[The Saint]

I don’t disagree as such.

However if he impressed at Championship level and showed potential of making the step up to the Prem and still only 23/4 then he could still have a future at Palace.

The club haven’t written him off yet but need to see him play at a higher level.

Lets not forget that he has not played a full season of professional football yet. He will have this, this season.
Then we should get him back, keep him until next January to see if he can make the step up. Keeping Clyne as a 3rd choice is no bad thing, after all, if Imray finds it difficult & needs another loan, to a L1 or Champ club, then we will need a solution in-situ.

No point in buying a player in, only to stunt a youth players growth. We need to be smart with signings. Only buy when there is no option in-house.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Do they?

I rate Imray significantly more than I do Kporha who's already in the 1st team squad. Imray's development was hindered by a serious injury not long after he joined us. It set him back a year or so. He's come on in leaps and bounds over the last two years as the stand-out player in the U21s and now at Bromley. There was talk of the club ending his loan to Bromley and sending him to L1 promotion chasing Wycombe. I've not heard any more since. Whether he stays at Bromley or moves to Wycombe, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being Munoz's back-up next season in the PL squad.

Imray is 3 years older, so he should be a way ahead in his development.

He looks exciting but it's not often a player who has hasn't played above league 2 by the time they are 21 makes it in the Prem.

 

[NEILLO]

Do they?

I rate Imray significantly more than I do Kporha who's already in the 1st team squad. Imray's development was hindered by a serious injury not long after he joined us. It set him back a year or so. He's come on in leaps and bounds over the last two years as the stand-out player in the U21s and now at Bromley. There was talk of the club ending his loan to Bromley and sending him to L1 promotion chasing Wycombe. I've not heard any more since. Whether he stays at Bromley or moves to Wycombe, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being Munoz's back-up next season in the PL squad.

I’m only telling you what someone at the club told me - the same person also told me that Palace were happy for Danny to stay at Bromley. I gather that it was his agent agitating for a move. I don’t disagree re Kporha from what I’ve seen of him.

The conversation I had was before the Bromley v Port Vale game a month ago

 

[MrRobbo]

Do they?

I rate Imray significantly more than I do Kporha who's already in the 1st team squad. Imray's development was hindered by a serious injury not long after he joined us. It set him back a year or so. He's come on in leaps and bounds over the last two years as the stand-out player in the U21s and now at Bromley. There was talk of the club ending his loan to Bromley and sending him to L1 promotion chasing Wycombe. I've not heard any more since. Whether he stays at Bromley or moves to Wycombe, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being Munoz's back-up next season in the PL squad.

I would!

As others have said, he's getting on a little and needs to be playing higher if he's got any chance of making Prem squads

 

[ASCPFC]

If you look really positively at our squad for the future - there's obviously Devenny, he seems fine and should improve, Wharton to come back: that should be handy. Riad looks ok, he'll probably be fine.
However, those saying Imray, Kphora won't make it without experience at higher levels then consider Mitchell and AWB - both basically took their chances when they got it.
I was also thinking about JRS and I don't think we should write him off. He's got better stats than Esse and it was more around his age that Wilf really developed properly for us. However, if we got good money for him, with a sell on clause - plus say Esse as his replacement then fair enough.
Ozoh too should not be written off. Shame he's injured but I suspect he'll come back. He's very physical so he always runs a risk of injury at his age.
Add in that Whitworth and Goodman are both decent then we do have some players who could be regulars in a season or two. And we won't have paid much for many of them. Is it a bright future? Not sure: but not bad.

 

[NEILLO]

If you look really positively at our squad for the future - there's obviously Devenny, he seems fine and should improve, Wharton to come back: that should be handy. Riad looks ok, he'll probably be fine.
However, those saying Imray, Kphora won't make it without experience at higher levels then consider Mitchell and AWB - both basically took their chances when they got it.
I was also thinking about JRS and I don't think we should write him off. He's got better stats than Esse and it was more around his age that Wilf really developed properly for us. However, if we got good money for him, with a sell on clause - plus say Esse as his replacement then fair enough.
Ozoh too should not be written off. Shame he's injured but I suspect he'll come back. He's very physical so he always runs a risk of injury at his age.
Add in that Whitworth and Goodman are both decent then we do have some players who could be regulars in a season or two. And we won't have paid much for many of them. Is it a bright future? Not sure: but not bad.

I think I’m the one who said that about Imray and with good reason. Because it’s not just about having him biding his time waiting hopefully that he will get his chance as AWB and Mitchell did. Between the club and the player and the players agent they have to determine what is best for all parties. In Danny’s case it clearly had to be a loan. And that, at L2 level, has been successful.

The next step for Danny is either come back to Palace and probably not get any first team game time or further develop him at a higher level. If he thrives at that higher level then again it’s a win/win - his personal development continues and Palace have a player that could contend for a first team squad place in the knowledge that he has played at that higher level. Look at it this way, would Palace sign a L2 player and put him straight into the first team ? - highly unlikely.

As someone that was fortunate enough to see all those youngsters, Sansom and Co , come through in the late 70’s, I love to see young players come into the first team. A lot has changed since then and it probably wouldn’t happen today.

 

[PatrickA]

If you look really positively at our squad for the future - there's obviously Devenny, he seems fine and should improve, Wharton to come back: that should be handy. Riad looks ok, he'll probably be fine.
However, those saying Imray, Kphora won't make it without experience at higher levels then consider Mitchell and AWB - both basically took their chances when they got it.
I was also thinking about JRS and I don't think we should write him off. He's got better stats than Esse and it was more around his age that Wilf really developed properly for us. However, if we got good money for him, with a sell on clause - plus say Esse as his replacement then fair enough.
Ozoh too should not be written off. Shame he's injured but I suspect he'll come back. He's very physical so he always runs a risk of injury at his age.
Add in that Whitworth and Goodman are both decent then we do have some players who could be regulars in a season or two. And we won't have paid much for many of them. Is it a bright future? Not sure: but not bad.

I admire your optimism and positive take , but in reality very few home produced young players make the breakthrough at Premier League level.

Only AWB and Mitchell in the last decade (Wilf was before that), and even then Mitchell came from Brentford.
Other youngsters from that period either ply a trade at lower levels or have disappeared from the professional game.

I think JRS will be sold in the summer.
Glasner was clear at a recent press conference that JRS wanted to move on in the past summer.
He’s had his moments with Sheffield United, but has not really pulled up trees and has been recently injured.

With Ozoh, I think his early involvement with the first team was more due to him being able to cope with the physicality than because of advanced technique.
It was evident that when Glasner discussed him, he referred to his attributes being possibly more suited to a role in the back 3 than in midfield.
H


I note that Devenny has signed a new contract, but it’s only in the region of 2 years.
I might be wrong, but in my view if the club really thought he could become a first team fixture in the coming years I’m sure they would have tied him down to a longer period.

Of the current crop, although I’m not in the know, it’s said that there are high hopes for Khpora to make the breakthrough.
Perhaps that’s why we don’t seem to be linked with any right backs.
However, like Imray, you would have thought he may benefit from a loan first to at least give him experience of first team football.

The above is not a negative take.
It just demonstrates how exceptional ( and sometimes lucky) a young player has to be to become a regular Premier League starter.

 

[JHB]

I admire your optimism and positive take , but in reality very few home produced young players make the breakthrough at Premier League level.

Only AWB and Mitchell in the last decade (Wilf was before that), and even then Mitchell came from Brentford.
Other youngsters from that period either ply a trade at lower levels or have disappeared from the professional game.

I think JRS will be sold in the summer.
Glasner was clear at a recent press conference that JRS wanted to move on in the past summer.
He’s had his moments with Sheffield United, but has not really pulled up trees and has been recently injured.

With Ozoh, I think his early involvement with the first team was more due to him being able to cope with the physicality than because of advanced technique.
It was evident that when Glasner discussed him, he referred to his attributes being possibly more suited to a role in the back 3 than in midfield.
H


I note that Devenny has signed a new contract, but it’s only in the region of 2 years.
I might be wrong, but in my view if the club really thought he could become a first team fixture in the coming years I’m sure they would have tied him down to a longer period.

Of the current crop, although I’m not in the know, it’s said that there are high hopes for Khpora to make the breakthrough.
Perhaps that’s why we don’t seem to be linked with any right backs.
However, like Imray, you would have thought he may benefit from a loan first to at least give him experience of first team football.

The above is not a negative take.
It just demonstrates how exceptional ( and sometimes lucky) a young player has to be to become a regular Premier League starter.

This is the reality. The number of young players breaking through at Premier League level is tiny. To be honest it makes you wonder if the academy model is actually worth it for an EPL club. Unless you are producing players you can sell on like Chelsea have is it actually a good investment?

 

[doombear]

This is the reality. The number of young players breaking through at Premier League level is tiny. To be honest it makes you wonder if the academy model is actually worth it for an EPL club. Unless you are producing players you can sell on like Chelsea have is it actually a good investment?

PL clubs no longer have the option of not having one - it's become a PL requirement hence Brentford having to resurrect their academy.

 

[JHB]

PL clubs no longer have the option of not having one - it's become a PL requirement hence Brentford having to resurrect their academy.

I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info

 

[teddingtoneagle]

Imray is 3 years older, so he should be a way ahead in his development.

He looks exciting but it's not often a player who has hasn't played above league 2 by the time they are 21 makes it in the Prem.

Let's hope another in the mould of Ian Wright - he was just shy of 22 when he joined Palace from Greenwich, where according to Wiki he was paid £30 per week.

 

[doombear]

Let's hope another in the mould of Ian Wright - he was just shy of 22 when he joined Palace from Greenwich, where according to Wiki he was paid £30 per week.

Jamie Vardy was ancient (26 or 27) by some people's metric when he moved from Fleetwood to Leicester.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Jamie Vardy was ancient (26 or 27) by some people's metric when he moved from Fleetwood to Leicester.

There's always going to be exceptions, but it's true for the vast majority of players that if they haven't reached a certain standard by their early 20s, they are unlikely ever to.

The fact we're highlighting Wright and Vardy as exceptions three decades apart doesn't change that.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

This is the reality. The number of young players breaking through at Premier League level is tiny. To be honest it makes you wonder if the academy model is actually worth it for an EPL club. Unless you are producing players you can sell on like Chelsea have is it actually a good investment?

Yep, agree with you - I think a lot of fans have unrealistic hopes for what an academy can realistically produce at our level, or how many of a particular age group are likely to progress. If you find one Prem standard player every few years, you're going pretty well.

It's definitely worth it though; AWB's fee presumably pays for a couple of years running the academy, and we can still supplement the first team with players like Devenny & Kporha until you find the next superstar.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

If you look really positively at our squad for the future - there's obviously Devenny, he seems fine and should improve, Wharton to come back: that should be handy. Riad looks ok, he'll probably be fine.
However, those saying Imray, Kphora won't make it without experience at higher levels then consider Mitchell and AWB - both basically took their chances when they got it.
I was also thinking about JRS and I don't think we should write him off. He's got better stats than Esse and it was more around his age that Wilf really developed properly for us. However, if we got good money for him, with a sell on clause - plus say Esse as his replacement then fair enough.
Ozoh too should not be written off. Shame he's injured but I suspect he'll come back. He's very physical so he always runs a risk of injury at his age.
Add in that Whitworth and Goodman are both decent then we do have some players who could be regulars in a season or two. And we won't have paid much for many of them. Is it a bright future? Not sure: but not bad.

AWB was a £50m signing for Man Utd age 21, Imray is looking good for Bromley in League 2 - they're on very different paths.

I think Devenny will be a bit-part player for us for a year or two and then end up getting a move to the Championship or Scottish Prem - I haven't seen enough so far to suggest he'll have a career at this level, but it's not impossible.

Similarly I think JRS will move on this summer whatever happens - I don't see us spending £12m+ on a younger player of a similar profile (Esse) if we had confidence that JRS would fill that place in the squad.

But both will probably fetch a reasonable fee, as would the likes of Imray, Ozoh, Whitworth.

 

[silvertop]

Our squad is basically one injury away from disaster. It is no better than last season, in fact we are going backwards.

You need - 2 players + 1 youth player for every position. It is not rocket science but what I do not get is STILL we have not signed a cover player for Mitchell. Relying on Clyne to play out of position on the left, might be a good in house solution but long term, it does not get Mitchell the rest he needs.

You need depth to last a season. As we have shown, we have been poor 1st half this season. This is because we have a huge lack of competition in key areas.

For me, by the beginning of next season I would hope our squad would look something more like this:

GK: Henderson, Whitworth, Goodman
LCB: NEW PLAYER, Riad, YOUTH PLAYER
CB: Lacroix, NEW PLAYER, YOUTH PLAYER
RCB: Guehi, Richards, YOUTH PLAYER
RWB: Munoz, Clyne, Imray
LWB: Mitchell, NEW PLAYER, YOUTH PLAYER
CM: Doucoure, Hughes, Ozoh
CM: Wharton, Lerman, YOUTH PLAYER
LW: Eze, Schlupp, Esse
RW, Sarr, Rak-Sakyi, Devenny
CF, Mateta, Nketiah, YOUTH PLAYER

It is clear we have some other youth players like Agbinone, Umeh, Kporha who need experience.

It is high time we moved a lot of the dead wood on. Edouard, Holding will never play under OG, Ward sadly is not at the level now. Turner is a stop gap but I never think having 2 senior keepers is a great use of funds. Whitworth has come in and played, has already played now a season at L1 and will only benefit from working with Henderson & becoming a cup keeper. Goodman, is a real prospect & we should look to keep him around the squad.

Matthews should go, he is not up to it either other than being a happy to sit in the stands 3rd choice. I would rather us look at a youth player with a higher ceiling frankly.

You cant chuck out all your experience in one go - I would say move Clyne and Schlupp on but if you are going to add youth players to the squad, experienced heads are needed.

We need 2 centre backs
A reserve right back
A reserve left back

If anything, we have too many midfielders now. Franca has never done it yet, always injured. Kamada? Not at the level. Ebiowei has never had a chance yet, Ahamada has already left as well.

Plange has not been a success anywhere he has gone. I think it is time to admit that while we mugged Derby at the time, he has not progressed. Similarly Adaramola has never seemed to do great on-loan either.

I would hope that OG will take the best 12-15 youth players, add them into the squad as 3rd choices. Use them in the Trophy, maybe in some of the League Cup early rounds against weaker opposition, drip fed, to see what they are about. In January, allow a fair chunk to go out on loan to see how they fare in L2, or L1, or the Championship, depending on where they have been on-loan before.

To my mind in the summer we need 4 players. The answer for me is clear but mentioning names isnt going to be a useful exercise.

More importantly is tying down those whose contracts are going to expire in the coming 12 - 18 months - Mitchell & Guehi at the top of that list. Losing them would be a massive blow. Mitchell especially.

But right now, we have too many passengers and we need to cut our cloth accordingly. Holding & Edouard arent even close to the squad, we need to get shot of them no matter what. If Atlanta United are offering £15m for Edouard, never mind drive him to the airport, get him a private Jet and go!

Esse preferably ACM or RW. Never LW.

 

[silvertop]

This is the reality. The number of young players breaking through at Premier League level is tiny. To be honest it makes you wonder if the academy model is actually worth it for an EPL club. Unless you are producing players you can sell on like Chelsea have is it actually a good investment?

Newcastle thought that and scrapped their academy.

It came back.

There has to be a reason for it. Cynical money machines like EPL clubs would not do it if there wasn't something in it for them.

 

[doombear]

Newcastle thought that and scrapped their academy.

It came back.

There has to be a reason for it. Cynical money machines like EPL clubs would not do it if there wasn't something in it for them.

It's now a PL requirement that clubs have at least a Category 3 Academy

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

Update on the squad:

Henderson/Turner

Muñoz/Clyne/Kporha

Richards/Riad Long term injury
Lacroix/Ward injured
Guéhi

Mitchell/Chilwell

Wharton/Doucouré Long term injury
Lerma can play CB/Hughes

Eze/Devenny/Esse
Sarr/Kamada/França ?

Mateta/Nketiah

 

[doombear]

Update on the squad:

Henderson/Turner

Muñoz/Clyne/Kporha

Richards/Riad Long term injury
Lacroix/Ward injured
Guéhi

Mitchell/Chilwell

Wharton/Doucouré Long term injury
Lerma can play CB/Hughes

Eze/Devenny/Esse
Sarr/Kamada/França ?

Mateta/Nketiah

Sorry mate - have also just started a new thread - your post wasn't up when I started writing it.