Kamada

[PatrickA]

The ground was roaring because it was him sitting on it crying and shouting something he spent most of his time doing.

Wilf was great in Championship and he looked good for us at times due to lack of quality he really wasn't anything special but had potential for more if it wasn't for his awful attitude.

The media used to come out with a lot of claims about how great he was with stats which was cherry picked.

His goal scoring was very poor which is why later few years he wanted pen duty and to play up front so they increased but then he would get no assists at all.

People need to remove rose tinted specs when it comes to Wilf.

The clear evidence is how he has faked every place he has gone to outside Palace with many of them want him gone very quickly.

It's all about opinions, but in nearly 60 years of going to Palace Zaha is the player who got me off my seat more than others.
To this day I've never seen a Palace player more adept a beating a player, even when confined in a restricted space by the touchline.
Guehi and Olise will have more stellar careers and achieve more medals, but I for one won't underestimate Zaha's key contribution in keeping us in the Premier League.
There were spells when he was our only real attacking outlet and there were many games when he proved the difference in our getting a result.
Of course there were weaknesses in his game, but for me these were more than compensated by what he gave us.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

It's all about opinions, but in nearly 60 years of going to Palace Zaha is the player who got me off my seat more than others.
To this day I've never seen a Palace player more adept a beating a player, even when confined in a restricted space by the touchline.
Guehi and Olise will have more stellar careers and achieve more medals, but I for one won't underestimate Zaha's key contribution in keeping us in the Premier League.
There were spells when he was our only real attacking outlet and there were many games when he proved the difference in our getting a result.
Of course there were weaknesses in his game, but for me these were more than compensated by what he gave us.

I do miss that, whatever our opinions on this team, we just haven’t got that player who as you say, gets you off your seat or who creates that buzz of excitement when he gets the ball cutting in from the left or right who you know is capable of turning a couple of defenders inside out.
Both of us go back as far as Vince Hilaire who imo is the closest I can remember to that buzz of excitement

 

[RubinsCube]

I don’t get the problem with Kamada’s wages. He was a free transfer, and I believe earning £5.5m per year. Times that by his two year contract and he’s a £11m player. Not bad, I think!! Agreed, up until the end of December 2024, he was crap and needed to adjust to the robust Premier League, but since then, he has been vital to our midfield. Have a look at his positioning, blocks and passing in his 10 minutes he played against Brighton on Sunday. We have missed him, and I hope he resigns.

I've heard several players in interviews over the years talk about how dressing room cliques emerge from two sources:

1. Ratings on EA FC for that season.
2. Wages.

If someone is on £80k a week and you are on £40k a week, the culture in some dressing rooms is that issues can come up if the former is not "twice as good" as the latter.

Economically what you are saying makes sense but I would say there can be these dressing room challenges.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

No, but it is a question of definition. Opta often seem to take a dry, techinal approach. I expect they count any time the ball is regained from an opponent as a tackle, regardless of physical force used or encountered, courage required, risk of injury to one self, importance of the moment, etc.

These stats also don't tell us how many times a Hughes or a Lerma jumped into the physical challenge of a 50/50 whilst Kamada stood back, out of harms way, before then nicking the subsequent loose ball away from an opponent who no longer had it under the same control. In such circumstances only Kamada gets the statistical credit, even though the hard bit was done by others. Like when Mrs TBTP loosens a stubborn jam jar lid with her freakish strength before I then get the easier task of actually opening it!

The stats also don't reflect how often Wharton has run past Kamada to press someone. Happens all the time. Sometimes it's only because Wharton has placed an opponent under that initial pressure that Kamada is able to nick the ball away. Again, the jam jar lid has been loosened for him.

The stats certainly don't say how many times Kamada pulls out of challenges. Or avoids them altogether. These are things that we use our eyes for. Surely just watching him play tells you he can't/won't tackle?

I think when you’re confronted with objective data that contradicts a view you hold, you can either absorb it and reflect on your view, or you can just tie yourself in knots insisting that the data must be wrong or flawed. The idea that ‘courage required’ should be considered when simply tallying tackles is just mental.

Frankly I think it’s a bit silly to pretend that Kamada is just running around benefitting from other people’s work - I don’t find that a remotely convincing argument, particularly not over dozens and dozens of games.

The point is we all have bias - what you ‘see’ and remember from an emotional, often fast-paced 90 minutes is not always accurate.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I don't trust stats either and prefer the evidence of my one eyes.
Some are in danger of sounding like Sky quoting meaningless figures every 30 seconds.
I acknowledge there is a difference between watching on tv and live as watching live you see the whole pitch, the running off the ball , the use of space and patterns of play which are less obvious on tv.
With regard to stats I recall some years ago Sky put out a stat that Mahrez had something like 7 touches of the ball in a game.
Sounds on the face of it unimpressive, but he scored 2 and made 1 in the game.

In a conversation about Kamada’s tackling proficiency, I don’t think you can consider ‘tackles made’ a meaningless stat… that seems a rather weak argument.

As I said above, people tend to disapprove of stats when the stats challenge their pre-held views - accepting you were wrong about something can be difficult.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Zaha's assists weren't that impressive and yet we all know how important he was to the team. He would beat a couple of players pass it to a teammate who would play the final simple ball to the goalscorer , the team mate getting the assist.

Assists are a terrible metric - completely agree.

 

[beak]

It's all about opinions, but in nearly 60 years of going to Palace Zaha is the player who got me off my seat more than others.
To this day I've never seen a Palace player more adept a beating a player, even when confined in a restricted space by the touchline.
Guehi and Olise will have more stellar careers and achieve more medals, but I for one won't underestimate Zaha's key contribution in keeping us in the Premier League.
There were spells when he was our only real attacking outlet and there were many games when he proved the difference in our getting a result.
Of course there were weaknesses in his game, but for me these were more than compensated by what he gave us.

Lombardo ,Don Rogers.

 

[pssguy]

The ground was roaring because it was him sitting on it crying and shouting something he spent most of his time doing.

Wilf was great in Championship and he looked good for us at times due to lack of quality he really wasn't anything special but had potential for more if it wasn't for his awful attitude.

The media used to come out with a lot of claims about how great he was with stats which was cherry picked.

His goal scoring was very poor which is why later few years he wanted pen duty and to play up front so they increased but then he would get no assists at all.

People need to remove rose tinted specs when it comes to Wilf.

The clear evidence is how he has faked every place he has gone to outside Palace with many of them want him gone very quickly.

This is such a misreading of his time at Palace it's laughable. OK his attitude stunk but that can't take away from his contribution.
As an example, in 2017/18 he started 28 games in which we had 11 wins, 11 draws and 6 defeats, averaging 1.57 points a game which over the whole season is equivalent to 60 points - which typically puts you in contention for a 6-8 spot. In the ten matches he did not start, we failed to get a point with a goal differential of 4-23.

 

[PatrickA]

Lombardo ,Don Rogers.

Great players also, but all too fleeting in duration.
Zaha did his stuff over a prolonged period.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I think when you’re confronted with objective data that contradicts a view you hold, you can either absorb it and reflect on your view, or you can just tie yourself in knots insisting that the data must be wrong or flawed. The idea that ‘courage required’ should be considered when simply tallying tackles is just mental.

Frankly I think it’s a bit silly to pretend that Kamada is just running around benefitting from other people’s work - I don’t find that a remotely convincing argument, particularly not over dozens and dozens of games.

The point is we all have bias - what you ‘see’ and remember from an emotional, often fast-paced 90 minutes is not always accurate.

It's hardly tying oneself in knots to point out that stats don't always tell the whole story. Nor is it a particularly unusual take. I mean, you have heard the phrase 'Lies, damned lies, and statistics' I presume?

 

[cryrst]

For comparison Hearts have two players on £7,000 a week. No one else earns more than £4,500.

It’s relative as the income for clubs in Scotland is way less. Albeit 4 k a week isn’t a bad wage in isolation

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Brentford and Brighton base all their purchases on statistics, seem to have done well for them with the gems they have found.

Most clubs use stats in their scouting, and even though they are a lot more complex than the average number of tackles Kamada makes, they are still not so comprehensive as to make it unnecessary to actually watch the player they are thinking of buying. They do.

Because often, what the stats tell you isn't the whole story. In any walk of life.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

It’s relative as the income for clubs in Scotland is way less. Albeit 4 k a week isn’t a bad wage in isolation

That's what I was highlighting. Players who could well be in the Champions League next season earning less than half what a teenager who hasn't played a league game is getting.

 

[PatrickA]

It's simplistic to attach too much importance to stats or alternatively to totally ignore them.

Under the moneyball approach employed by the likes of Brentford they review a prospective player's history e.g injury record, temperament, disciplinary record, fitness stats, development potential.
This is a form of risk management and sensible from an investment perspective.

What is not significant is the sort of tripe that Sky pump out e.g a player has scored theee goals in his last 5 games v Everton or that a player has made 8 successful passes ( even if they are 10 yard passes to a teammate in his own half).

Personally I have a sneaking admiration for legendary ex Liverpool manager Bob Paisley.
He apparently could analyse a player through their running gait.
He supposedly could establish whether they would be prone to encounter injuries, their running power and ability to sustain stamina levels.

 

[sprites]

Yet. When Kamada is in the team we are a better side. So your rant looks purely scapegoat like.

Again, just not true. That’s your opinion. We didn’t look that flash losing to Burnley when he got walked through time after time.