Kamada

sprites said:
Absolute rubbish. Not sure where you’re getting your stats from, but that’s a load of tosh. Anyone with eyesight can tell you Hughes makes more tackles than Kamada without even calculating it fairly by minutes played, let alone when you take that into account.
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The stats are from Opta ffs - it’s not a matter of opinion.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
The stats are from Opta ffs - it’s not a matter of opinion.
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No, but it is a question of definition. Opta often seem to take a dry, techinal approach. I expect they count any time the ball is regained from an opponent as a tackle, regardless of physical force used or encountered, courage required, risk of injury to one self, importance of the moment, etc.

These stats also don't tell us how many times a Hughes or a Lerma jumped into the physical challenge of a 50/50 whilst Kamada stood back, out of harms way, before then nicking the subsequent loose ball away from an opponent who no longer had it under the same control. In such circumstances only Kamada gets the statistical credit, even though the hard bit was done by others. Like when Mrs TBTP loosens a stubborn jam jar lid with her freakish strength before I then get the easier task of actually opening it!

The stats also don't reflect how often Wharton has run past Kamada to press someone. Happens all the time. Sometimes it's only because Wharton has placed an opponent under that initial pressure that Kamada is able to nick the ball away. Again, the jam jar lid has been loosened for him.

The stats certainly don't say how many times Kamada pulls out of challenges. Or avoids them altogether. These are things that we use our eyes for. Surely just watching him play tells you he can't/won't tackle?
 
TheBigToePunt said:
No, but it is a question of definition. Opta often seem to take a dry, techinal approach. I expect they count any time the ball is regained from an opponent as a tackle, regardless of physical force used or encountered, courage required, risk of injury to one self, importance of the moment, etc.

These stats also don't tell us how many times a Hughes or a Lerma jumped into the physical challenge of a 50/50 whilst Kamada stood back, out of harms way, before then nicking the subsequent loose ball away from an opponent who no longer had it under the same control. In such circumstances only Kamada gets the statistical credit, even though the hard bit was done by others. Like when Mrs TBTP loosens a stubborn jam jar lid with her freakish strength before I then get the easier task of actually opening it!

The stats also don't reflect how often Wharton has run past Kamada to press someone. Happens all the time. Sometimes it's only because Wharton has placed an opponent under that initial pressure that Kamada is able to nick the ball away. Again, the jam jar lid has been loosened for him.

The stats certainly don't say how many times Kamada pulls out of challenges. Or avoids them altogether. These are things that we use our eyes for. Surely just watching him play tells you he can't/won't tackle?
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I don't trust stats either and prefer the evidence of my one eyes.
Some are in danger of sounding like Sky quoting meaningless figures every 30 seconds.
I acknowledge there is a difference between watching on tv and live as watching live you see the whole pitch, the running off the ball , the use of space and patterns of play which are less obvious on tv.
With regard to stats I recall some years ago Sky put out a stat that Mahrez had something like 7 touches of the ball in a game.
Sounds on the face of it unimpressive, but he scored 2 and made 1 in the game.
 
PatrickA said:
I don't trust stats either and prefer the evidence of my one eyes.
Some are in danger of sounding like Sky quoting meaningless figures every 30 seconds.
I acknowledge there is a difference between watching on tv and live as watching live you see the whole pitch, the running off the ball , the use of space and patterns of play which are less obvious on tv.
With regard to stats I recall some years ago Sky put out a stat that Mahrez had something like 7 touches of the ball in a game.
Sounds on the face of it unimpressive, but he scored 2 and made 1 in the game.
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Zaha's assists weren't that impressive and yet we all know how important he was to the team. He would beat a couple of players pass it to a teammate who would play the final simple ball to the goalscorer , the team mate getting the assist.
 
Badger11 said:
Zaha's assists weren't that impressive and yet we all know how important he was to the team. He would beat a couple of players pass it to a teammate who would play the final simple ball to the goalscorer , the team mate getting the assist.
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He got better at goals and assists over the years. His end product was erratic, to say the least, to begin with.
 
Badger11 said:
Zaha's assists weren't that impressive and yet we all know how important he was to the team. He would beat a couple of players pass it to a teammate who would play the final simple ball to the goalscorer , the team mate getting the assist.
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An assist is difficult to quantify.
Player A beats five players and passes it Player B who scores. Player A gets an assist.
Player A passes it to Player B who beats five players and scores. Player A gets an assist.
Player A takes a corner. Player B scores with an unbelievable overhead kick. PlayerA gets an assist.
 
ASCPFC said:
He got better at goals and assists over the years. His end product was erratic, to say the least, to begin with.
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True, but even then Zaha carried the fight for the team. And for the fans. He wanted to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Every time the ball went out to him, the ground would roar. He wanted to destroy his full back, and demanded the ball constantly so he could do so. You could literally see teams that had been on top of us start to s*** themselves and drop off. All that pressure, eased at once. All those solid but unspectacular Palace players he played with suddenly had a purpose - defend like a tiger then give it to Wilf (and Bolasie).

For all his many faults, Zaha never lacked courage, never failed to take the highest responsibility for winning the game, and never, ever, hid. What effect must he have had on his team mates? On their belief that they had a punchers chance in any game?

Having made my point above about relying on what the eye can see, I am now basically adding what the heart can feel to that. Neither are reflected in stats.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
An assist is difficult to quantify.
Player A beats five players and passes it Player B who scores. Player A gets an assist.
Player A passes it to Player B who beats five players and scores. Player A gets an assist.
Player A takes a corner. Player B scores with an unbelievable overhead kick. PlayerA gets an assist.
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Player A and player B sound good, can we sign them in the summer?
 
TheBigToePunt said:
No, but it is a question of definition. Opta often seem to take a dry, techinal approach. I expect they count any time the ball is regained from an opponent as a tackle, regardless of physical force used or encountered, courage required, risk of injury to one self, importance of the moment, etc.

These stats also don't tell us how many times a Hughes or a Lerma jumped into the physical challenge of a 50/50 whilst Kamada stood back, out of harms way, before then nicking the subsequent loose ball away from an opponent who no longer had it under the same control. In such circumstances only Kamada gets the statistical credit, even though the hard bit was done by others. Like when Mrs TBTP loosens a stubborn jam jar lid with her freakish strength before I then get the easier task of actually opening it!

The stats also don't reflect how often Wharton has run past Kamada to press someone. Happens all the time. Sometimes it's only because Wharton has placed an opponent under that initial pressure that Kamada is able to nick the ball away. Again, the jam jar lid has been loosened for him.

The stats certainly don't say how many times Kamada pulls out of challenges. Or avoids them altogether. These are things that we use our eyes for. Surely just watching him play tells you he can't/won't tackle?
Click to expand...
Brentford and Brighton base all their purchases on statistics, seem to have done well for them with the gems they have found.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
True, but even then Zaha carried the fight for the team. And for the fans. He wanted to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Every time the ball went out to him, the ground would roar. He wanted to destroy his full back, and demanded the ball constantly so he could do so. You could literally see teams that had been on top of us start to s*** themselves and drop off. All that pressure, eased at once. All those solid but unspectacular Palace players he played with suddenly had a purpose - defend like a tiger then give it to Wilf (and Bolasie).

For all his many faults, Zaha never lacked courage, never failed to take the highest responsibility for winning the game, and never, ever, hid. What effect must he have had on his team mates? On their belief that they had a punchers chance in any game?

Having made my point above about relying on what the eye can see, I am now basically adding what the heart can feel to that. Neither are reflected in stats.
Click to expand...

The ground was roaring because it was him sitting on it crying and shouting something he spent most of his time doing.

Wilf was great in Championship and he looked good for us at times due to lack of quality he really wasn't anything special but had potential for more if it wasn't for his awful attitude.

The media used to come out with a lot of claims about how great he was with stats which was cherry picked.

His goal scoring was very poor which is why later few years he wanted pen duty and to play up front so they increased but then he would get no assists at all.

People need to remove rose tinted specs when it comes to Wilf.

The clear evidence is how he has faked every place he has gone to outside Palace with many of them want him gone very quickly.
 
grumpymort said:
The ground was roaring because it was him sitting on it crying and shouting something he spent most of his time doing.

Wilf was great in Championship and he looked good for us at times due to lack of quality he really wasn't anything special but had potential for more if it wasn't for his awful attitude.

The media used to come out with a lot of claims about how great he was with stats which was cherry picked.

His goal scoring was very poor which is why later few years he wanted pen duty and to play up front so they increased but then he would get no assists at all.

People need to remove rose tinted specs when it comes to Wilf.

The clear evidence is how he has faked every place he has gone to outside Palace with many of them want him gone very quickly.
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Wilf was never quite as good as some thought, and when one adds his overall temperament into the equation it figures why he never made it at the highest level. That's not to say he didn't have the chance, signed by Manchester United but never making the breakthrough.
I recall Olise in his first games for Palace and thought then that he was way ahead of Zaha in ability, reading of the game, and temperament and I'm not surprised that he now plays for one of Europe's top sides.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
No, but it is a question of definition. Opta often seem to take a dry, techinal approach. I expect they count any time the ball is regained from an opponent as a tackle, regardless of physical force used or encountered, courage required, risk of injury to one self, importance of the moment, etc.

These stats also don't tell us how many times a Hughes or a Lerma jumped into the physical challenge of a 50/50 whilst Kamada stood back, out of harms way, before then nicking the subsequent loose ball away from an opponent who no longer had it under the same control. In such circumstances only Kamada gets the statistical credit, even though the hard bit was done by others. Like when Mrs TBTP loosens a stubborn jam jar lid with her freakish strength before I then get the easier task of actually opening it!

The stats also don't reflect how often Wharton has run past Kamada to press someone. Happens all the time. Sometimes it's only because Wharton has placed an opponent under that initial pressure that Kamada is able to nick the ball away. Again, the jam jar lid has been loosened for him.

The stats certainly don't say how many times Kamada pulls out of challenges. Or avoids them altogether. These are things that we use our eyes for. Surely just watching him play tells you he can't/won't tackle?
Click to expand...
Yet. When Kamada is in the team we are a better side. So your rant looks purely scapegoat like.
 
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