Israel v Hamas

[CPFCSaturn]

Only Israel? The UK, US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Iran, France, Russia have all had cross border military conflicts. Sanctions for all of them?

The big difference? Israel is responding to a terrorist group that provoked it and has openly said it wants it wiped off the map.

'Having a cross border military conflict' is not what makes Israel unique, nor did I claim it was.

The way it conducts warfare is fairly unique amongst Western democracies, hence the condemnation from most of the world.

 

[Spindle]

A lot of the usual suspects traitors who voted against:

Labour: - Diane Abbott - Tahir Ali - Richard Burgeon - Ian Bryne - Imran Hussain- Kim Johnson - Clive Lewis - Grahame Morris- Nadia Whittome

Lib Dems: - Andrew George- Tom Gordon - Tessa Munt - Manuela Perteghella - Dr Al Pinkerton - Luke Taylor

Greens: - Siân Berry- Carla Denyer - Ellie Chowns - Adrian Ramsay

Independent: - Zarah Sultana- Shockat Adam - Apsana Begum - Jeremy Corbyn - John McDonnell - Adnan Hussain

SDLP: - Colum Eastwood

Corbyn would vote against Hamas and Hezbollah being designated terrorists

 

[Spindle]

That was dropped with such ‘precision’ in a densely packed civilian area and killed 30+, including children.

bUt WhAt BoB vYlAn AnD kNeEcAp SaId!

Well Dan this is your misunderstanding of modern weapons. The mk82 is unguided and dropped using a fancy bombsight. OR you fit a Boeing guidance kit on it and it becomes a GBU24, and the accuracy of that is 1m.

Here's the bit you don't get. The bomb itself is about £4000, and for example the F16 Viper can carry about 12 at once. But a guidance kit is about £60,000 and you can carry, I think, 6 max, because you can only use the inner rail. So if the target is low value or large, you use the mk82, if not, the GBU24.

But you types complained about the pager bombs and they were in the pockets of official Hamas members so I don't think even mega accuracy is good enough for you.

 

[Spindle]

View attachment 1440

Spare a thought for the hostages still in Hamas hands after 18 months, because you don't

 

[Spindle]

No.

Implying that you are capable of knowing what other people are thinking. Which seems unlikely. If true I suggest you enter “Britains Got Talent”. You would win and make millions.

The other questions why Israel with all its superior intelligence and surveillance capabilities failed to be prepared for Oct 7. I suggested one possible scenario. You are free to tell us why that cannot be true and suggest another.

I suggest you look at the day and date more closely. The Gazans picked it for a reason which you no doubt are blissfully unaware of.

 

[Spindle]

I don't agree.

Most advanced militaries manage to conduct their operations without half the reports and allegations as have been made against the IDF - there are always some reports of bad conduct, but it's never at this scale.

That's because most militaries aren't followed about by bands of very biased people looking for things to exaggerate and shout about

 

[CPFCSaturn]

That's because most militaries aren't followed about by bands of very biased people looking for things to exaggerate and shout about

Yeah, everyone just has it in for poor old Israel.

 

[Spindle]

Thanks. You have proved what I asserted. That you think you are capable of seeing inside the heads of others.

You couldn’t make millions even if you wanted to. Bs on forums soon gets busted in real life.

Any Hamas commander saying anything should be regarded with both contempt and suspicion. Something I would have expected you to understand.

Trying to compare what happened on Oct 7 with such as 9/11, 7/7 or the atomic bombs in Japan is disingenuous at best.

9/11 was a failure of US counter intelligence and military preparedness for sure but that was over 20:years ago and lessons should have been learned.

7/7 was a random act of terrorism, not a coordinated mass attack demanding significant planning and execution.

Japan had no idea that the US were preparing such a mission and could have done nothing to prevent it anyway.

Israel has the most efficient intelligence service in the world. There can be no excuses but there might be reasons. They would be prepared for regular minor incidents. This was a major event which demanded significant planning, movement of people and equipment. It could not have gone unnoticed.

Total bollocks.

Firstly, I don't recall you stepping in on here when your pals started comparing Gaza with the WW2 Holocaust, so there's a double standard right there.

Then you've gone on to waft away Al Quaida attacks as one offs and our fault anyway. Maybe you should watch the new documentary on BBC about 7/7, some of your mates on here will be loving it, a win for the underdogs.

Thirdly, you don't know s*** about WW2, I don't know where to begin on the call to drop the bombs.

Face it, there's NOTHING the Jews can do to appease you except wither away. The Muslim world sees YOU as the enemy, it's a shame you don't understand that.

 

[Spindle]

Dear me, you need to calm down. Oct 7 was Israel's 9/11.
By the way, the correct word is 'to' rather than 'too'.

Per capita or was far worse.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Yeah, everyone just has it in for poor old Israel.

I refer you to this post Israel v Hamas

 

[Spindle]

Israel have attacked Iraq? That's been kept quiet.

Nope, but Iraq attacked Israel in 1990.....

 

[Penge Eagle]

Thanks. You have proved what I asserted. That you think you are capable of seeing inside the heads of others.

You couldn’t make millions even if you wanted to. Bs on forums soon gets busted in real life.

Any Hamas commander saying anything should be regarded with both contempt and suspicion. Something I would have expected you to understand.

Trying to compare what happened on Oct 7 with such as 9/11, 7/7 or the atomic bombs in Japan is disingenuous at best.

9/11 was a failure of US counter intelligence and military preparedness for sure but that was over 20:years ago and lessons should have been learned.

7/7 was a random act of terrorism, not a coordinated mass attack demanding significant planning and execution.

Japan had no idea that the US were preparing such a mission and could have done nothing to prevent it anyway.

Israel has the most efficient intelligence service in the world. There can be no excuses but there might be reasons. They would be prepared for regular minor incidents. This was a major event which demanded significant planning, movement of people and equipment. It could not have gone unnoticed.

You crowed about your visit to Israel just before October 7. Any reason why you didn't go to Gaza? Do you plan to in the future so you can tell them how much you support their cause? Of course not. Because your life would be in danger and nobody there gives a s*** about the useful idiots in the West. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I've acknowledged exactly that already, but the regularity and volume of atrocities that Israel are committing is not 'normal' even in warfare.

An estimated 50 to 55 million civilians killed in WW2 which lasted 6 years.

So far, around 50k Palestinians killed since October 7, 2023. So if you consider killing civilians an atrocity, then statistically it is very normal.



Remember what started this current conflict. The murder and kidnap of over 1200 Israeli civilians.

Who are we to judge the Israeli reaction?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

An estimated 50 to 55 million civilians killed in WW2 which lasted 6 years.

So far, around 50k Palestinians killed since October 7, 2023. So if you consider killing civilians an atrocity, then statistically it is very normal.



Remember what started this current conflict. The murder and kidnap of over 1200 Israeli civilians.

Who are we to judge the Israeli reaction?

WW2 is a horrendous barometer for warfare - it was the depravity of WW2 that led to the world agreeing to do better.

A 20-year campaign in Afghanistan from 2001-2021 is reported to have less than 50,000 civilian deaths.

The US military documents claim around 65,000 civilian deaths in Iraq from 2004-09.

Even if we accept the count in Gaza at 50,000 (I am very confident it's much higher), 50,000 civilians in just 18 months is miles above the rates in Iraq and Afghanistan.

October 7th is mentioned multiple times every single day on here - it's not difficult to remember it. It does nothing to justify Israel's conduct since.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You crowed about your visit to Israel just before October 7. Any reason why you didn't go to Gaza? Do you plan to in the future so you can tell them how much you support their cause? Of course not. Because your life would be in danger and nobody there gives a s*** about the useful idiots in the West. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh right, it's fine to slaughter them in their thousands then? Is that the argument?

Do you think people are critical of Israel's genocide so they can go and show off about it in Palestine after? What shite are we talking about?

 

[Penge Eagle]

Oh right, it's fine to slaughter them in their thousands then? Is that the argument?

Do you think people are critical of Israel's genocide so they can go and show off about it in Palestine after? What shite are we talking about?

That wasn't my point.

 

[Penge Eagle]

WW2 is a horrendous barometer for warfare - it was the depravity of WW2 that led to the world agreeing to do better.

A 20-year campaign in Afghanistan from 2001-2021 is reported to have less than 50,000 civilian deaths.

The US military documents claim around 65,000 civilian deaths in Iraq from 2004-09.

Even if we accept the count in Gaza at 50,000 (I am very confident it's much higher), 50,000 civilians in just 18 months is miles above the rates in Iraq and Afghanistan.

October 7th is mentioned multiple times every single day on here - it's not difficult to remember it. It does nothing to justify Israel's conduct since.

Your claim needs to supported by data. Israel’s strike-to-civilian ratios are actually lower than many Western campaigns.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Your claim needs to supported by data. Israel’s strike-to-civilian ratios are actually lower than many Western campaigns.

You don't accept any data barring that produced by the IDF.

You keep going with this shoddy ratio 🤣

Who has calculated that ratio and based on what numbers?

 

[Spindle]

WW2 is a horrendous barometer for warfare - it was the depravity of WW2 that led to the world agreeing to do better.

A 20-year campaign in Afghanistan from 2001-2021 is reported to have less than 50,000 civilian deaths.

The US military documents claim around 65,000 civilian deaths in Iraq from 2004-09.

Even if we accept the count in Gaza at 50,000 (I am very confident it's much higher), 50,000 civilians in just 18 months is miles above the rates in Iraq and Afghanistan.
.

More cluelessness. The Taliban did not hide in hospitals and behind civilians. If you watched any footage of that war you would know that ISAF always knew when an attack was imminent because the villagers disappeared. They were warned, not used as shields. Also, the cities were controlled by ISAF forces so you aren't going to get mass civilian casualties because there aren't masses of civilians.

Jesus Christ this is blindingly obvious

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

WW2 is a horrendous barometer for warfare - it was the depravity of WW2 that led to the world agreeing to do better.

A 20-year campaign in Afghanistan from 2001-2021 is reported to have less than 50,000 civilian deaths.

The US military documents claim around 65,000 civilian deaths in Iraq from 2004-09.

Even if we accept the count in Gaza at 50,000 (I am very confident it's much higher), 50,000 civilians in just 18 months is miles above the rates in Iraq and Afghanistan.

October 7th is mentioned multiple times every single day on here - it's not difficult to remember it. It does nothing to justify Israel's conduct since.

Yes, a war where we had to kill millions in order to prevail.

Perhaps we should have just decided it was all too horrendous and surrendered.

If we apply your logic, that would have made the world a better place.