Israel v Hamas

[Stirlingsays]

Quite a bit I could say but I won't bore everyone.
Nevertheless, there are towns/ cities totally destroyed in Ukraine would be one point. Put them altogether and there's likely to be more destruction than Gaza overall. Yet, 10,000 dead overall. It makes me think that death tolls in Gaza really are more political than actual. I think really that backs my points pretty well. It's also quite interesting as it's a contemporary war so comparable type of targeting and ordnance in some ways. However, I can't say for sure. It isn't going to me going over and counting everyone. Nor anyone probably. It's clouded for a reason though isn't it?
The original point on casualties is: Hamas have something to gain from exaggerating - like Goebbels did for a really bad analogy. I'm trying to think of Saddam and Tariq Ali now - I think they did this too but my memory is fading?
And obviously Israel will play down civilian deaths. It isn't going to look good for them. So it isn't getting any easier to say anything certain.
I think we can say - don't believe either figure really. Which would be my opinion on it.

We know that civilians in Ukraine and Russia to a vastly smaller extent still die under rubble from bomb attacks but obviously it's a completely different kind of war where all the Ukrainians in towns and cities near the front line can simply leave for the west or centre of Ukraine.

With Gaza, it's a situation where no one wants them.

Personally if I were Israel I'd be shipping them out to the parts of Syria they are occupying. It would take a few years but if they want Gaza them the breaks.

 

[Stirlingsays]

You're comparing a civilian death toll in Ukraine with a general death toll in Gaza.

If you include all people killed in the conflict, Ukraine's total death toll would also be north of 50,000, and that's a war where there are actually two sides fighting - and no one seems to disbelieve Ukraine when they publish such numbers.

God knows what the real numbers are for the Ukraine/Russia conflict.

Personally I think Ukraine are lying through their buck teeth about everything in relation to casualties.

They have always been heavily out-numbered on artillery and in air bombs....and it's only broadly parity on drones. Whatever the death and injured total is I'd say it's something like 1 to 3 or higher.

But obviously in terms of civilians they have a vastly higher total.

 

[cryrst]

I consistently find your takes on this utterly abhorrent and lacking in any basic humanity, but at least you're honest about it, which is more than most.

As you know 1 is too many but when the Muslims were dancing in the streets after 9/11, 7/7, London Bridge, nice, oct 7th and many more why the f*** should i care if it’s a million!

 

[ASCPFC]

There's obviously something to all sides of any argument that we can never reconcile. However, there are previous and other conflicts to go on - and I've tried to show that. I'm not going to write huge, in depth essays - I doubt anyone would want them. I could clarify more but won't - some of my stuff maybe could be clearer. But some is clearly being Interpreted the way people want to.
Entrenched arguments aren't going to solve anything. I guess it doesn't particularly matter to the people that are dead.

 

[cryrst]

There's obviously something to all sides of any argument that we can never reconcile. However, there are previous and other conflicts to go on - and I've tried to show that. I'm not going to write huge, in depth essays - I doubt anyone would want them. I could clarify more but won't - some of my stuff maybe could be clearer. But some is clearly being Interpreted the way people want to.
Entrenched arguments aren't going to solve anything. I guess it doesn't particularly matter to the people that are dead.

The men got 73 virgins. Every cloud.

 

[shlomoPeckham]

So, the old thread has gone.
To kick things off in an easy-going way, I'll start with the statement: "When Israel behaves the way it does, and then they wonder why nobody likes the Jews".

Thankfully a ceasefire might be close and then aid might get to the deserving Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with this.

"When Israel behaves the way it does, and then they wonder why nobody likes the Jews".

oooh your hard. i see you also speak for absolutely everyone. im a jew.im a palace supporter. im an AngloJew from Peckham. Couldnt give a rats arse about palestine or israel, but i do give a damn about muppets mouthing off, like yourself.. i suspect you are one of these navel gazers when in the presence of a jew.

 

[HKOwen]

Is that a Serbian eagle?

 

[shlomoPeckham]

Is that a Serbian eagle?

Donetsk Peoples Republic

 

[CPFCSaturn]

There's obviously something to all sides of any argument that we can never reconcile. However, there are previous and other conflicts to go on - and I've tried to show that. I'm not going to write huge, in depth essays - I doubt anyone would want them. I could clarify more but won't - some of my stuff maybe could be clearer. But some is clearly being Interpreted the way people want to.
Entrenched arguments aren't going to solve anything. I guess it doesn't particularly matter to the people that are dead.

I find this a strange response to be honest, assuming it is aimed at me.

I found your posts interesting, and acknowledged that, whilst questioning some parts and providing my own thoughts - nothing about that was about 'entrenched arguments' or 'interpreting things how I want' - we are both speculating on something and offered slightly differing views.

No one is asking you to write huge essays - it's an exchange of views, not a lecture - no one has to take what you say as gospel.

We disagree slightly on something very speculative... it doesn't mean anyone is acting in bad faith.

 

[ASCPFC]

I find this a strange response to be honest, assuming it is aimed at me.

I found your posts interesting, and acknowledged that, whilst questioning some parts and providing my own thoughts - nothing about that was about 'entrenched arguments' or 'interpreting things how I want' - we are both speculating on something and offered slightly differing views.

No one is asking you to write huge essays - it's an exchange of views, not a lecture - no one has to take what you say as gospel.

We disagree slightly on something very speculative... it doesn't mean anyone is acting in bad faith.

Fair enough. I'm not saying anybody's acting in bad faith at all. More just that people will not see one side or the other in this case. Which mirrors a lot of the conflict and makes the debate pretty moot if you try to be objective about it.
My stuff is all off the top of my head, so I have no problem with people disagreeing. Where I use figures I'm using them from memory, which is obviously going to be fallible.
I'm also saying I would like to clarify my points but just can't go on and on to do it!
I can actually see how I could be interpreted slightly differently than my meaning.
I'm more bothered about Saturday than anything else now. And it's not my Sabbath or anything.
I have a rake of work to do - but the Irish saying is "putting it on the long finger". Fingers crossed.