Israel v Hamas

[Wisbech Eagle]

All of this is completely made up in your head.

Two-state solution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The Jews can never win. Hated for being successful and hated for being poor. Hated for being stateless, hated for having one.

Unfortunately, Judaism has been largely about separation and religious superiority.
When you identify as something other than just human, you immediately put yourself in the firing line.
When your religious beliefs demanded a homeland right in the middle of Arab territory, nothing good was ever going to come of it.
Which alternative would have resulted in a better outcome is unknown and will remain so.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Unfortunately, Judaism has been largely about separation and religious superiority.
When you identify as something other than just human, you immediately put yourself in the firing line.
When your religious beliefs demanded a homeland right in the middle of Arab territory, nothing good was ever going to come of it.
Which alternative would have resulted in a better outcome is unknown and will remain so.

This is all in your prejudiced imagination.

Historically, Jews were in that piece of land over 2,500 years before Arabs and Muslims. Jews have lived on that territory continuously for 4,000 years.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The Jews can never win. Hated for being successful and hated for being poor. Hated for being stateless, hated for having one.

Only by the prejudiced or stupid.

This though isn’t about “The Jews”, even if so many cannot see the difference. This is about the State of Israel, and especially its current government.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Only by the prejudiced or stupid.

This though isn’t about “The Jews”, even if so many cannot see the difference. This is about the State of Israel, and especially its current government.

Current government? No Israeli government has ever been suitable for anti-Semites.

You say there should be a Jewish state so that makes you a Zionist.

You never said where it should be if not the historical homeland.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

This is all in your prejudiced imagination.

Historically, Jews were in that piece of land over 2,500 years before Arabs and Muslims. Jews have lived on that territory continuously for 4,000 years.

Along with other tribes. Since then it has seen wars, occupation and evacuation.

History cannot be a determinant because how do fix which point is relevant? No doubt if you go back far enough then historically their ancestors came from Africa! Do they claim that too?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

This is all in your prejudiced imagination.

Historically, Jews were in that piece of land over 2,500 years before Arabs and Muslims. Jews have lived on that territory continuously for 4,000 years.

I'm not arguing the occupancy of the Biblical Israel. I'm saying that a decision to create the modern state of Israel was inevitably going to lead to conflict.

I have no prejudice other than my own interests, and this country's as an extension of that.

Jewish religious belief was a stronger motivation than common sense in this case, and now we all have to live with the wider consequences.
It would have been more sensible for Jews to remain in the West where they could prosper. Many began there and many are still there.
The only prejudice that should be apparent is the one that favours reason over religion.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Current government? No Israeli government has ever been suitable for anti-Semites.

You say there should be a Jewish state so that makes you a Zionist.

You never said where it should be if not the historical homeland.

The discussion is not about anti- semitism. It’s about the creation of the state of Israel and the potential creation of the state of Palestine.

To repeat, Zionism only refers to the creation of Jewish State on the land previously occupied by the Palestinians. Not to the creation of a homeland.

Where should it be? In a sparsely populated area, perhaps in the USA or Canada but it could be elsewhere. Sparsely populated is usually for good reasons but the Jews have shown themselves to be industrious, innovative and determined. With the backing of their super rich brothers in the USA they could have made it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

This is all in your prejudiced imagination.

Historically, Jews were in that piece of land over 2,500 years before Arabs and Muslims. Jews have lived on that territory continuously for 4,000 years.

I don't think that's accurate.

Semites have lived there long before any religion and when they looked at the genetic differences between the Palestinians and Jews they found they are essentially the same people. Also when you look at who has controlled that piece of land for the longest Jews only represent a small patch of time in the past compared to others.

In fact the descendants of those Jews who left 2000 years ago to live in Europe are less of that place genetically for obvious reasons and the population of European Jews who moved to Israel/Palestine represents the majority of Jews in Israel.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The discussion is not about anti- semitism. It’s about the creation of the state of Israel and the potential creation of the state of Palestine.

To repeat, Zionism only refers to the creation of Jewish State on the land previously occupied by the Palestinians. Not to the creation of a homeland.

Where should it be? In a sparsely populated area, perhaps in the USA or Canada but it could be elsewhere. Sparsely populated is usually for good reasons but the Jews have shown themselves to be industrious, innovative and determined. With the backing of their super rich brothers in the USA they could have made it.

What land from what dates was it previously "occupied" by Palestinians?

Each of the five times Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state, the Palestinians rejected the offer (1937, 1947, 1967, 2000, 2008). In 2000 and 2008, the Palestinians were offered all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank. They said NO!

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

What land from what dates was it previously "occupied" by Palestinians?

Each of the five times Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state, the Palestinians rejected the offer (1937, 1947, 1967, 2000, 2008). In 2000 and 2008, the Palestinians were offered all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank. They said NO!

Palestine was a territory within the Ottoman Empire for 400 years, then controlled by us for around 30. What do you call someone who lives in Palestine but Palestinian?

I find no evidence to support your other claims so think they are trying to rewrite history. I can do no more than refer you again to this, which appears to me to be an authentic and comprehensive summary:-

Two-state solution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Penge Eagle]

Palestine was a territory within the Ottoman Empire for 400 years, then controlled by us for around 30. What do you call someone who lives in Palestine but Palestinian?

I find no evidence to support your other claims so think they are trying to rewrite history. I can do no more than refer you again to this, which appears to me to be an authentic and comprehensive summary:-

Two-state solution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestinians have rejected every peace deal for two states as my dates show.

You don't regularly fire rockets into Israel and commit Oct 7 if you want a two-state solution.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Palestinians have rejected every peace deal for two states as my dates show.

You don't regularly fire rockets into Israel and commit Oct 7 if you want a two-state solution.

The sticking point on those peace deals.....which during the Clinton era came closest to implementation was that Israel essentially wanted from a Palestinian state what Russia want from a remaining Ukrainian state, which is the inability for them to attack them and the ability to control that state if negotiations broke down.

With a Palestinian state it came down to the military size they would be allowed and even more importantly than that access to the water supply. The Palestinians wanted to control their own affairs and essentially Israel viewed that as too much of a threat.....Personally in terms of Israel's long term survival I view that as common sense. It's why I've always been sceptical of the two state solution.

From the Palestinian perspective I think they should have taken Clinton's terms because that was a base from which they could later build.....but both extreme elements on both sides weren't going to accept it so it'll would have probably involved a Palestinian civil war.....and as we know Israel lost a PM to an assassin's builets.

I've always favoured the Egypt, one state solution but whatever the end result is, we are a long way from it.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Palestinians have rejected every peace deal for two states as my dates show.

You don't regularly fire rockets into Israel and commit Oct 7 if you want a two-state solution.

I read what you wrote but see no evidence to justify it. Perhaps you can show some?

What Hamas did, and what Israel has done in response are symptoms of the problem. Not anything to do with a solution.