Israel v Hamas

[Penge Eagle]

Rather than take propaganda at face value try digging a little deeper. This is a report from Sky about that aid. It’s there alright but the UN cannot distribute it as they have been stopped from operating inside Gaza and Israel now controls what is distributed.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7530912246197767446

Ah, that bastion of impartiality - Sky News! The reason Israel took control was because it is believed that the UN was working hand-in-glove with Hamas, which was taking much of the aid and selling it at inflated prices to pay its fighters. Apparently around 1,200 UN employees in Gaza are members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad. The UN operation was giving Hamas a great source of income.

 

[cryrst]

Don’t be ridiculous.

He has said we will recognise Palestine as a state. Not Hamas as its government. It’s merely a lever to exert pressure on Israel.

Hamas !

 

[georgenorman]

How do you know that? Or are you assuming it because if information is given quietly to protect the informant nobody other than two people are going to know. Keeping the identity of informants secret is not unusual in policing.

What's New Pussycat?

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Hamas has the money and could help its people - but chooses not to! They see humanitarian aid as someone else's problem. Yet Israel are the bad guys according to the ignorant.

"Hamas has constructed a parallel economy — one for war and one for the people. The war economy is well-funded. The civilian one is starved and outsourced to the UN.”
Middle East Institute, 2024

For a change, there is much that Penge states, that i agree with. The Palestinians have been used by HAMAS for their own political/military ends. I have no idea how HAMAS came to power. Unlikely though it may seem, perhaps the politicians lied to the people ?. Although Candidates carrying an AK47 can also be pretty persuasive too.
I think Starmer's bullying of Israel to accept ceasefire terms , "Or we'll recognise the Palestinian State in September" is a dereliction of principles.
HAMAS need to be removed from any Governance of the Palestinian people, as a first point,
I think the likelihood of any remaining hostages being alive is vey small. However, that should be uppermost in any discussions about short-term or long-term settlement.

I think it incredible that the EU is discussing recognising a Palestinian State at this point in time. This should have been done decades ago, when the situation was volatile but still largely controllable, which was always the right and proper thing to do.
Offering this as an incentive now, is just rewarding terrorism by HAMAS, which is why they need to be removed.

In spite of a media ban in Gaza, I am convinced War Crimes have been committed, and are still being conducted with Israeli Government sanction. The people at the top should face trial as soon as hostilities cease and investigations are completed

Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinian. They should be rebuilt, and the Palestinians not displaced.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Ah, that bastion of impartiality - Sky News! The reason Israel took control was because it is believed that the UN was working hand-in-glove with Hamas, which was taking much of the aid and selling it at inflated prices to pay its fighters. Apparently around 1,200 UN employees in Gaza are members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad. The UN operation was giving Hamas a great source of income.

As ever, every other source of information rejected as biased while you happily swallow whatever tosh Israel serve up, with seemingly zero care for their biases or impartiality.

Not even subtle.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Starmer has crossed a line today - a line which may be his downfall.
He has said - on mine and your behalf - that the UK will recognise and support a terrorist organisation.
I am dumbfounded by this and may it be the act that finishes his term as PM.
He is scum.

Sorry but this is just flat out bullshit.

According to recent YouGov polling, only 14% of people disagree with recognising Palestine as a state, so you are very much in the minority.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Anything to appease the Muslim voter base of the UK and far left.

14% of people disagree with recognising Palestine as a state.

He’s appeasing the vast majority of people.

You are once again holding a fringe position and presenting opposition to it as ‘far left’.

 

[Spindle]

For a change, there is much that Penge states, that i agree with. The Palestinians have been used by HAMAS for their own political/military ends. I have no idea how HAMAS came to power. Unlikely though it may seem, perhaps the politicians lied to the people ?. Although Candidates carrying an AK47 can also be pretty persuasive too.
I think Starmer's bullying of Israel to accept ceasefire terms , "Or we'll recognise the Palestinian State in September" is a dereliction of principles.
HAMAS need to be removed from any Governance of the Palestinian people, as a first point,
I think the likelihood of any remaining hostages being alive is vey small. However, that should be uppermost in any discussions about short-term or long-term settlement.

I think it incredible that the EU is discussing recognising a Palestinian State at this point in time. This should have been done decades ago, when the situation was volatile but still largely controllable, which was always the right and proper thing to do.
Offering this as an incentive now, is just rewarding terrorism by HAMAS, which is why they need to be removed.

In spite of a media ban in Gaza, I am convinced War Crimes have been committed, and are still being conducted with Israeli Government sanction. The people at the top should face trial as soon as hostilities cease and investigations are completed

Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinian. They should be rebuilt, and the Palestinians not displaced.

I agree except I'd level Gaza moving everyone to the WB and I'd ship out all Jew settlers. Then make it a state with a Arab UN military heavy policing control, initially governed by a safe puppet government a la Cromwell before holding elections and installing peaceful led governance.

It would be a new country under the initial control of Arab League nations, and they'd need to work closely with Israel to ensure peace.

Not going to happen, and yeah, terrible move by Starmer. He's given in to terror there.

 

[Spindle]

As ever, every other source of information rejected as biased while you happily swallow whatever tosh Israel serve up, with seemingly zero care for their biases or impartiality.

Not even subtle.

Isn't it ironic

 

[Spindle]

Sorry but this is just flat out bullshit.

According to recent YouGov polling, only 14% of people disagree with recognising Palestine as a state, so you are very much in the minority.

You aren't a moron but you are incredibly disingenuous, even devious.

The vast majority want a state, but they don't want it now, today, as a threat to Israel, because it rewards Hamas. Not that Hamas want that, they don't care about a state, they want the Jews dead whether "Palestine" exists on a map or not.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You aren't a moron but you are incredibly disingenuous, even devious.

The vast majority want a state, but they don't want it now, today, as a threat to Israel, because it rewards Hamas. Not that Hamas want that, they don't care about a state, they want the Jews dead whether "Palestine" exists on a map or not.

The YouGov poll I reference was conducted 5 days ago. So devious.

I think you just struggle to accept how unpopular your views, and indeed Israel, now are amongst most people.

 

[eaglesdare]

YouGov poll has also said Nigel farage would win the most seats if an election is called this summer....

I don't trust polls at all even if they align with my views 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[DanH]

YouGov poll has also said Nigel farage would win the most seats if an election is called this summer....

I don't trust polls at all even if they align with my views 🤷🏻‍♂️

You don't trust polls unless every single person has been polled, apparently 🤣

 

[CPFCSaturn]

YouGov poll has also said Nigel farage would win the most seats if an election is called this summer....

I don't trust polls at all even if they align with my views 🤷🏻‍♂️

And I think most of us would agree that would be a very likely outcome re Farage, so the poll is not inaccurate.

Polls are not perfect measures, but they are indicative of public opinion - the Farage example just supports that.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Ah, that bastion of impartiality - Sky News! The reason Israel took control was because it is believed that the UN was working hand-in-glove with Hamas, which was taking much of the aid and selling it at inflated prices to pay its fighters. Apparently around 1,200 UN employees in Gaza are members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad. The UN operation was giving Hamas a great source of income.

We can leave aside for the purposes of this discussion the Israeli justification for taking over the distribution of aid and excluding the UN.

What matters in this discussion is that they have done so.

Nor does it matter who reports on the consequences and points out the hypocrisy and propaganda involved in showing huge dumps of aid that the UN cannot deliver because the IDF won’t permit them to.

Israel now controls all aid distribution. They are therefore solely responsible for the current situation.

No amount of deflection can disguise that fact.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

For what it’s worth, I also think it’s a s*** move from Starmer.

Although I’m obviously pleased to see our government escalating pressure on Israel, I don’t think leveraging Palestinian statehood against it is remotely appropriate - you either believe in Palestinian statehood or you don’t - it shouldn’t be conditional on whether Israel want to carry on genociding or not.

More significantly, it seems that British spy planes flying over Gaza, for Israel, have now ceased that activity.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

For a change, there is much that Penge states, that i agree with. The Palestinians have been used by HAMAS for their own political/military ends. I have no idea how HAMAS came to power. Unlikely though it may seem, perhaps the politicians lied to the people ?. Although Candidates carrying an AK47 can also be pretty persuasive too.
I think Starmer's bullying of Israel to accept ceasefire terms , "Or we'll recognise the Palestinian State in September" is a dereliction of principles.
HAMAS need to be removed from any Governance of the Palestinian people, as a first point,
I think the likelihood of any remaining hostages being alive is vey small. However, that should be uppermost in any discussions about short-term or long-term settlement.

I think it incredible that the EU is discussing recognising a Palestinian State at this point in time. This should have been done decades ago, when the situation was volatile but still largely controllable, which was always the right and proper thing to do.
Offering this as an incentive now, is just rewarding terrorism by HAMAS, which is why they need to be removed.

In spite of a media ban in Gaza, I am convinced War Crimes have been committed, and are still being conducted with Israeli Government sanction. The people at the top should face trial as soon as hostilities cease and investigations are completed

Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinian. They should be rebuilt, and the Palestinians not displaced.

What does recognising the state of Palestine actually mean though?

I don’t think for a moment it means recognising Hamas as the legitimate government in Gaza.

I think it is merely a statement of principle. That the Palestinian people should possess their own land and be solely responsible for it. Exactly what land and how being issues for future negotiations.

 

[Spindle]

The YouGov poll I reference was conducted 5 days ago. So devious.

I think you just struggle to accept how unpopular your views, and indeed Israel, now are amongst most people.

Maybe you aren't smart because that's not what I said at all. And you ignored so much.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Maybe you aren't smart because that's not what I said at all. And you ignored so much.

Me: "According to recent YouGov polling, only 14% of people disagree with recognising Palestine as a state, so you are very much in the minority."

You: "The vast majority want a state, but they don't want it now, today, as a threat to Israel, because it rewards Hamas. Not that Hamas want that, they don't care about a state, they want the Jews dead whether "Palestine" exists on a map or not."

Me: "The YouGov poll I reference was conducted 5 days ago"

You: "That's not what I said at all"

💩

 

[HKOwen]

Me: "According to recent YouGov polling, only 14% of people disagree with recognising Palestine as a state, so you are very much in the minority."

You: "The vast majority want a state, but they don't want it now, today, as a threat to Israel, because it rewards Hamas. Not that Hamas want that, they don't care about a state, they want the Jews dead whether "Palestine" exists on a map or not."

Me: "The YouGov poll I reference was conducted 5 days ago"

You: "That's not what I said at all"

💩

or, 55% did not support recognising a Palestinian state per the poll