Israel v Hamas

Hrolf The Ganger said:
I think extremism exists on both sides, as does hatred. The hatred is a separate issue from disputes about land. Jew/Arab hatred has existed way before this.

It's probably quite hard to stop hating people who want to kill you
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The way things are going our descendants will be the Palestinians.

I look at London and I see our Anglo capital awash with foreigners (born here or not), the majority of whom have no connection to its buildings or history.

Only a few of them belong there or deserve to be there.

Khan is an open mockery.....When I see Trafalgar Square and the statute of Nelson with hundreds of Muslims below it..... I understand the insult that's being delivered.
 
Stirlingsays said:
My reading of it is that Hamas walked into a trap.

If you're going to head into Israel and kill 1300 Israelis and kidnap then it really has to be all or nothing when the Israeli government facing you is proper right wing. If they were going to do this (which was insane) then it had to be with the agreement of Hezbollah in invade from the north at the same time.

You do everything all at once for the best chance of winning......Instead they thought that Israel could be held to some kind of moral standard post October 7th......Poor calculation.

The way I see it they were out-smarted by Netty.....Who I think knew about these plans long ago.

In fact the Jews have been out-smarting the Arabs since 1947.....Well, since Balfour.....They invested in Europe/US and the Arabs just spent that oil on enriching their nobility. It's only been in recent years that Saudi and co have caught on and started investing in the US.
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It's possible, but it nonetheless demonstrates that given the chance, Hamas will massacre Jews.
We already knew that the IDF were happy to use Palestinians for target practice.

I don't think the moral high ground is an ambition for either side.
 
My view is that it's an ethnic cleansing rather than genocide, but I realise that not everyone agrees with what fits either of those sensitive terms.

It isn't hard to see what Israel's plan is and some of us made this clear near the start of this.

For it to be a genocide then it's an incredibly slow one......I think the plan is for the UN and Hamas to agree to move the population out.

Personally I think you're more likely to see mass suicides like the siege of Masada back in Roman times rather than Hamas willingly giving up Gaza.

But who knows, Hamas might be overthrown internally.
 
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Wisbech Eagle said:
I see no one at all defending Hamas, let alone providing PR for them.

You need to stop deflecting everything back to Hamas and start to deal with the very obvious and desperately serious situation that the IDF are themselves responsible for.

Many innocent lives have already been lost already and many more are threatened. Not only that Israel’s reputation has already been tarnished immeasurably. If they don’t stop it will become irreparable.
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There are items on the news which say Hamas is stopping the aid trucks for more gruesome results and propaganda or just nicking the aid for them and theirs.
One feeds the other sadly so if true hamas scum have plenty of their own peoples blood on their hands.
 
Penge Eagle said:
The UN has not declared it a genocide.

The ICJ said allegations are plausible but has not declared it a genocide.

The ICC has issued arrest warrants over war crimes but has not declared it a genocide.

Most democratic governments – including US, UK, Germany, France, Canada, Australia – have not declared it a genocide.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have made war crimes accusations but not declared it a genocide.

Genocide Watch and many legal scholars have not declared it a genocide.
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So what you’re saying is it isn’t the genocide some are claiming it to be 👍
 
cryrst said:
There are items on the news which say Hamas is stopping the aid trucks for more gruesome results and propaganda or just nicking the aid for them and theirs.
One feeds the other sadly so if true hamas scum have plenty of their own peoples blood on their hands.
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I haven’t seen such reports but it could, of course, be true. Even if it not ought to be. Presumably every aid convoy is escorted by the IDF to guarded distribution centres. No truck driver would risk driving inside Gaza otherwise. So if it is true, why is it?
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Those still trying to justify the actions of the IDF in Gaza because Hamas started the war and haven’t surrendered are attempting to defend the indefensible.

No matter who started things, what they are now doing, or whether they are hiding among the people, you cannot starve masses of the innocent.

Other ways must be found to achieve your aims. This way is totally unacceptable.
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Can you explain why that there is starvation now but not in the previous year since Hamas started it?

And why is it the responsibility of the IDF to feed everyone? In WW1 the Royal Navy successfully blockaded Germany and the population starved. In WW2 the Germans did it to us but without the stranglehold. I don't remember anyone criticising this and it was deliberately done.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
That is meaningless.

Both sides don't have to agree to peace for the killing to stop - the IDF could just stop killing people and enforce their borders.

Israel do not want peace. They may never want peace. They want to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians from the land.

Why will there be 'endless barbarity' unless every Palestinian is killed? Was there 'endless barbarity' pre-October 7th?

Israel don't care how many children Israel kill, and seemingly neither do many on here.
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Yeah you really are brainwashed in whatever Jew hating corbynista socialist worker loving group you are in. That's a series of bullshit, I only highlighted the worst bit
 
These Palestinians are a moany lot.
"Oh, my neighbourhood has been destroyed"
"Oh, my family have been killed by missile strikes"
"We're being killed waiting for food aid, because we are starving"

At least we don't have to listen or see too much, because of the Israeli media ban. That's a relief. Miserable feckers 👍
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
These Palestinians are a moany lot.
"Oh, my neighbourhood has been destroyed"
"Oh, my family have been killed by missile strikes"
"We're being killed waiting for food aid, because we are starving"

At least we don't have to listen or see too much, because of the Israeli media ban. That's a relief. Miserable feckers 👍
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Why are the Palestinians more special than the Yemenis?
 
Sir Keir now 'as popular as cholera'.

Why is he dragging the palestine statehood issue out despite all the best advice the pressures and the leadership of the French President Macron which has upstaged the UK and had an enormous impact.

Is it because his appointment and defeat of Jeremy Corbyn was by the labour friends of Israel and associated groups?

Look what his pro-Israel policies have ended up in, it is a disgrace.

We have a base in Cyprus and could have flown in humanitarian aid to the starving and sick from the start, instead he supported Israel and also actually cut the foreign aid budget too.

And of all countries, GB is the country most responsible for the palestine issue in the first place. who are we to deny them their own state.

Labour out, the clamour is growing (and look who is back).

Arresting elderly ladies with placards as a legacy is different I grant you.

😎
 
Penge Eagle said:
The UN has not declared it a genocide.

The ICJ said allegations are plausible but has not declared it a genocide.

The ICC has issued arrest warrants over war crimes but has not declared it a genocide.

Most democratic governments – including US, UK, Germany, France, Canada, Australia – have not declared it a genocide.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have made war crimes accusations but not declared it a genocide.

Genocide Watch and many legal scholars have not declared it a genocide.
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A better list, at least.

ICJ/ICC will only ever declare it a genocide after the fact, as will most governments, but they all will once the dust has settled - I'm very sure of that.
 
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