Here we go, blatant two tier judiciary

[DANGERCLOSE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897769677020864944

 

[Stirlingsays]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897769677020864944

The uniparties are entirely responsible for the footholds that these organisations have taken.

It's just one of so many social failings, essentially their worldview means that all that can ever happen are band-aids.

It's another problem we are stuck with as demographics change and it's entirely down to them.

 

[beak]

The uniparties are entirely responsible for the footholds that these organisations have taken.

It's just one of so many social failings, essentially their worldview means that all that can ever happen are band-aids.

It's another problem we are stuck with as demographics change and it's entirely down to them.

Band aid raised a lotta money,almost worth putting up with Bob Geldof

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I think it comes down to what kind of propaganda the state pumps out.....it always has been that way. Religion was removed in all practical senses long long ago.

Britain and Europe have been living in a neo/social liberal era since the war generation died off and everything we see around us is built from those worldviews......it's secular yes, but take a look at what's underneath that lid.....it's progressive.

If you look at humanism....something I was interested in around 2012, I found that it was basically a cover for progressivism and far left politics. If you approached it with a right wing perspective you were quickly considered not to be a humanist.

None of this will change until the elites in charge are changed.....and I don't mean the uniparty efforts of Tory and Labour....even Reform, in reality, only represent a minor deflection as they will be hindered by the system....similar to the AfD in Germany.

The liberal establishment actually aren't that interested in democracy...for them democracy means protecting their ideological dominance in the institutions and thus we have already seen how they are willing to manipulate the system to remain in power.....France, Romania and Poland for example.

It's not about how well their ideas work, it's about paying their mortgage and how they are doing personally.....the 'go along to get along' establishment that is essentially all systems. So whatever set of lies and half truths work.

I think the upshot is that we are stuck within this failing system until it collapses under its own failures, ironically just as the Soviet system did. This realisation doesn't make me happy at all.

All you say is fair, but I do think that religion plays a part in politics in terms of how people vote, or at least, how they are told to vote. It might just be a particular demographic and perceived self interest, but we also now see political movements based purely on religion. This is a predictable and dangerous development.

That has nothing to do with my personal dislike of the worship of sky monkeys but it is a problem where people's hearts and minds can be so easily manipulated towards thinking and activity that is not in the interests of the population as a whole.

 

[Stirlingsays]

All you say is fair, but I do think that religion plays a part in politics in terms of how people vote, or at least, how they are told to vote. It might just be a particular demographic and perceived self interest, but we also now see political movements based purely on religion. This is a predictable and dangerous development.

That has nothing to do with my personal dislike of the worship of sky monkeys but it is a problem where people's hearts and minds can be so easily manipulated towards thinking and activity that is not in the interests of the population as a whole.

When you're talking about a religion, you are essentially referring to a set of morality rules. The good aspect to that is it gives a person's life a purpose....the opium of the masses as the quote goes.

Since the slow drip introduction of science, reason, and skepticism via the enlightenment we have seen the 'death of god' that Nietzsche warned about. We can argue about the nature of truth but what matters more is what replaces religion....and nihilism, suicidal empathy and narcissism aren't building much of a future, even though I may enjoy aspects of the latter.

Western society killed off belief in a transcendent god with a clear morality system to follow, and for both good and ill, we’re stuck wrestling with the fallout.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

When you're talking about a religion, you are essentially referring to a set of morality rules. The good aspect to that is it gives a person's life a purpose....the opium of the masses as the quote goes.

Since the slow drip introduction of science, reason, and skepticism via the enlightenment we have seen the 'death of god' that Nietzsche warned about. We can argue about the nature of truth but what matters more is what replaces religion....and nihilism and narcissism aren't building much of a future, even though I may enjoy aspects of the latter.

Western society killed off belief in a transcendent god with a clear morality system to follow, and for both good and ill, we’re stuck wrestling with the fallout.

I don't think we need 'God' to have morals. God is about fear. God is about worship. God is about ignorance.
We have inserted God into human history as a mechanism primarily to achieve adherance to moral discipline and population control, but the concept has not stopped wars, greed and cruelty or and other human failing. In fact it has been the excuse for those on many occasions.

I agree that that void left by religion needs filling but we can't hold on to archaic ideas using that excuse. If we are not careful, we risk simply replacing a moderate religion with another that is far less desirable.
Progressivism is also not the answer. It is not progressive. It is irational. It is driven by a false narrative.
There has to be another way forward.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't think we need 'God' to have morals. God is about fear. God is about worship. God is about ignorance.

Ok, but like I say what matters was the replacement.
I think enough time has passed since the fall of widespread religion in the west and what I've seen in its place is essentially replacing 'god' with the self.....Narcissism: the self as 'god'. It's why our children will be poorer than us.

We have inserted God into human history as a mechanism primarily to achieve adherance to moral discipline and population control, but the concept has not stopped wars, greed and cruelty or and other human failing. In fact it has been the excuse for those on many occasions.

Human failings will happen whether there's a religion to excuse it onto or not. Stalin was an atheist for example, as was Moa. In fact, some religions can reduce the propensity towards violence instead of negotiation....and others, as we know, not so much.

Tribalism is an intrinsic part of human nature and will be expressed whether that's ethnicity or value system and it'll play out wearing different cloaks whether they are coloured religious or not religious.

I agree that that void left by religion needs filling but we can't hold on to archaic ideas using that excuse. If we are not careful, we risk simply replacing a moderate religion with another that is far less desirable.
Progressivism is also not the answer. It is not progressive. It is irational. It is driven by a false narrative.
There has to be another way forward.

In the west Christianity is dying faster than BBC comedy. A long enough time has elapsed since Nietzsche spoke about the death of god to have a view on the aftermath.
I agree with you that progressivism is a disaster but I also say that it's an inevitable 'direction of travel' consequence of liberalism. I don't see 'democracy' allowing a change of course and thus we are stuck with it until it falls.

 

[Glazier#1]

The uniparties are entirely responsible for the footholds that these organisations have taken.

It's just one of so many social failings, essentially their worldview means that all that can ever happen are band-aids.

It's another problem we are stuck with as demographics change and it's entirely down to them.

I think you mean plasters.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think you mean plasters.

You know what, I think you are right.

 

[Spiderman]

Band aid raised a lotta money,almost worth putting up with Bob Geldof

Nothing is worth that!

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Ok, but like I say what matters was the replacement.
I think enough time has passed since the fall of widespread religion in the west and what I've seen in its place is essentially replacing 'god' with the self.....Narcissism: the self as 'god'. It's why our children will be poorer than us.


Human failings will happen whether there's a religion to excuse it onto or not. Stalin was an atheist for example, as was Moa. In fact, some religions can reduce the propensity towards violence instead of negotiation....and others, as we know, not so much.

Tribalism is an intrinsic part of human nature and will be expressed whether that's ethnicity or value system and it'll play out wearing different cloaks whether they are coloured religious or not religious.


In the west Christianity is dying faster than BBC comedy. A long enough time has elapsed since Nietzsche spoke about the death of god to have a view on the aftermath.
I agree with you that progressivism is a disaster but I also say that it's an inevitable 'direction of travel' consequence of liberalism. I don't see 'democracy' allowing a change of course and thus we are stuck with it until it falls.

I hear you.

I don't think that the rejection of a god concept has to equal nihilism or narcissism. It is merely the rejection of a false, or at best, unprovable premise around which understanding and behaviour is based.

Certainly religion is not the cause of human failings but it is symptomatic of it. If we are to 'evolve' as a species we have to find better reasons to be better. We can blame amoral behaviour on a lack of faith, but I believe that to be equally false. Amorality is generally the natural state of all animals. Our capacity to behave with a moral code presumably comes from our complex reasoning brain. It obviously sees compassion as advantatious in some circumstances. That sort of behaviour can also been seen in other animals on occasion, so it's not specific to us. Despite that, humans are very much animals and part of the problem is that the human concept of what humans are or can be is often not in line with what we actually are. Time and time again we deny our true nature. That is not to say we can't aspire to always be our best selves, but I'm certain that worshipping sky monkeys is not the answer.

As you say, we are tribal, and we are also an aggressive and inquisitive species. Our inquisitiveness when positive is why we have science and the desire to know all that can be known. We can't hold back that desire by holding on to superstitions and ignorance.
Equally, we have to develop a genuine understanding of each other as humans and how to find the mutual benefit in peaceful coexistance. That will never happen why ignorance and irrational ideologies prevail. However, the road to disaster is paved with good intentions. Social liberalism is currently in crisis as it has become totally confused and seems to be achieving the exact opposite of it's ambitions. It has become the thing that it previously rejected.

Nietzsche liked a rant but ultimately, the cultural and moral aspects of Christianity do not have to be thrown out with the rejection of a Biblical supreme being and all the rest of the baloney. Intellectually, it must be clear that these two things are totally separate. I don't think that religion was ever responsible for morals. Morals must have developed out of a need to make behaviour condusive to society. God didn't invent morals. We did. It goes back to the advantages of certain behaviour at certain times.
That won't be lost if we lose the bearded bloke in the clouds.