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European Union

Wisbech Eagle said:
It has nothing whatsoever to do with any “ideas of the left”. The way some people seek to attribute everything to politics is ridiculous and pathetic.

It only concerns the practical need to control the activities of the people smugglers. If that means having physical checks at appropriate places then it’s just using common sense. Not ideology.
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But this is not Free Movement is it? Schengen is ridiculous and has left Europe open to this sort of smuggling activity and more. At least we never joined
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It has nothing whatsoever to do with any “ideas of the left”. The way some people seek to attribute everything to politics is ridiculous and pathetic.

It only concerns the practical need to control the activities of the people smugglers. If that means having physical checks at appropriate places then it’s just using common sense. Not ideology.
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It's pretty clear what is 'ridiculous and pathetic'. Petitions being raised to rejoin the EU for example. Free movement of people is of course an idea of the Left and as with most of their notions is very much ridiculous and pathetic.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
The point was that Ireland is more expensive. Prices are higher ergo it's more expensive.
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Not if you have more money in your pocket or other costs are lower but not included in the basket calculated.

The point actually being that whether true or not there is no reason to automatically conclude that the reason must be its membership of the EU.
 
georgenorman said:
It's pretty clear what is 'ridiculous and pathetic'. Petitions being raised to rejoin the EU for example. Free movement of people is of course an idea of the Left and as with most of their notions is very much ridiculous and pathetic.
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Time will tell. There was already a noticeable tide of opinion that us leaving the EU was a stupid mistake. The point made simply being that Trump’s reelection has added impetus. In my opinion significantly so but it’s surely unarguable true.

A petition won’t deliver it. What it does is draw attention, create debate and interest.

The free movement of people within the free market of the EU has nothing to do with socialist ideology. It does not mean the free movement of people from outside the EU to enter. That is managed. Those who avoid the management are illegals.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Time will tell. There was already a noticeable tide of opinion that us leaving the EU was a stupid mistake. The point made simply being that Trump’s reelection has added impetus. In my opinion significantly so but it’s surely unarguable true.

A petition won’t deliver it. What it does is draw attention, create debate and interest.

The free movement of people within the free market of the EU has nothing to do with socialist ideology. It does not mean the free movement of people from outside the EU to enter. That is managed. Those who avoid the management are illegals.
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Joining the EU (EEC) in the first place was a stupid mistake. The Left is not confined to Socialists - all sorts of crackpots are in the New Left, even some supposed 'One Nation Tories'. It is laughable to suggest that borders are being managed in any meaningful way.
 
Spiderman said:
But this is not Free Movement is it? Schengen is ridiculous and has left Europe open to this sort of smuggling activity and more. At least we never joined
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I don’t think those regularly travelling within continental Europe would consider Schengen ridiculous. Whether with Schengen or not the problem of smuggling will exist. I see no effective way of hermetically sealing internal borders. Determined people will always find routes. The solution is at source.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Given all the thousands of words that appeared on the old site about the EU it is a little surprising that it hasn't yet been a topic here.

Following the second coming of the American Messiah, the debate over the merits of us rejoining the EU is already lively on other forums and being openly contemplated in some political circles. I can only see that momentum growing. With Starmer meeting Macron today I would be surprised if cautious optimism didn't result.

Many feel that the argument that we are better off inside the EU than outside has been greatly strengthened by Trump's victory and his attitude. Unsurprisingly I agree although I realise it's not imminent. We will need to feel some pain before the obvious cure gets overwhelmingly popular.

Though I doubt whether too many here will avail themselves of the opportunity to sign it there is a petition on this which can be found here:-

Petition: Apply for the UK to join the European Union as a full member as soon as possible
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Maybe because most people have moved on.
 
georgenorman said:
Joining the EU (EEC) in the first place was a stupid mistake. The Left is not confined to Socialists - all sorts of crackpots are in the New Left, even some supposed 'One Nation Tories'. It is laughable to suggest that borders are being managed in any meaningful way.
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You are entitled to your opinion. As others are to their’s.

The point is that the tide of opinion is flowing against you and Trump has just given it more emphasis. I don’t think that’s arguable, but I expect you to try.

Yes it’s managed. What is failing is the control on the illegals via the smuggling gangs. That is something we all agree about but that no one actually has an answer to.

Answers would be easier to find within the EU than outside. Why would the EU help a non member?
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Not if you have more money in your pocket or other costs are lower but not included in the basket calculated.

The point actually being that whether true or not there is no reason to automatically conclude that the reason must be its membership of the EU.
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More money in your pocket doesn't mean things aren't more expensive.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
You are entitled to your opinion. As others are to their’s.

The point is that the tide of opinion is flowing against you and Trump has just given it more emphasis. I don’t think that’s arguable, but I expect you to try.

Yes it’s managed. What is failing is the control on the illegals via the smuggling gangs. That is something we all agree about but that no one actually has an answer to.

Answers would be easier to find within the EU than outside. Why would the EU help a non member?
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Very kind of you to let others have an opinion what a true democrat you are.

The tide of opinion is clearly flowing against you -the election of Trump being the latest example.

If border controls are working there would be no need to introduce the new measures. The answer is to take tough and effective action.

The price rigging, protectionist, undemocratic, racketeering EU helps nobody - including its members.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
You are entitled to your opinion. As others are to their’s.

The point is that the tide of opinion is flowing against you and Trump has just given it more emphasis. I don’t think that’s arguable, but I expect you to try.

Yes it’s managed. What is failing is the control on the illegals via the smuggling gangs. That is something we all agree about but that no one actually has an answer to.

Answers would be easier to find within the EU than outside. Why would the EU help a non member?
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Well they never helped us when we were in it, as I have said many times before on here. The answer is a deterrent we had one but many did not want to give it a try
 
So the Governor of the Bank has broken tradition and offered his view. Which seems pretty much aligned to mine. I don’t suppose he signed the petition! That would leave him as a hostage to fortune but it’s quite clear he thinks Brexit was a mistake and we need to accept that and start to rebuild relationships.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bank of England boss to say UK must 'rebuild relations' after Brexit

Governor Andrew Bailey will deliver his strongest comments yet on the UK's departure from the EU.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
georgenorman said:
Very kind of you to let others have an opinion what a true democrat you are.

The tide of opinion is clearly flowing against you -the election of Trump being the latest example.

If border controls are working there would be no need to introduce the new measures. The answer is to take tough and effective action.

The price rigging, protectionist, undemocratic, racketeering EU helps nobody - including its members.
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If you think the tide of opinion is flowing in your preferred direction in the UK because of Trump’s reelection you are delusional. I have not heard anyone welcoming it anywhere in the UK, except by the usual suspects here. Which was completely predictable.

We need effective cooperation between the nations involved before adopting tougher methods to stop the flow at source. That means not only within the EU but the places on the other side of the Mediterranean where the migrants are being trafficked from.

The EU is providing a better quality of life for its citizens than we are. That’s the only measurement that really matters. Controlling failure is still failure.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
So the Governor of the Bank has broken tradition and offered his view. Which seems pretty much aligned to mine. I don’t suppose he signed the petition! That would leave him as a hostage to fortune but it’s quite clear he thinks Brexit was a mistake and we need to accept that and start to rebuild relationships.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bank of England boss to say UK must 'rebuild relations' after Brexit

Governor Andrew Bailey will deliver his strongest comments yet on the UK's departure from the EU.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Rebuilding relationships is more likely than rejoining.

www.theguardian.com

Britain will not rejoin EU in my lifetime, says Starmer

Labour leader also says he cannot foresee circumstances where UK would re-enter single market or customs union
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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Wisbech Eagle said:
If you think the tide of opinion is flowing in your preferred direction in the UK because of Trump’s reelection you are delusional. I have not heard anyone welcoming it anywhere in the UK, except by the usual suspects here. Which was completely predictable.

We need effective cooperation between the nations involved before adopting tougher methods to stop the flow at source. That means not only within the EU but the places on the other side of the Mediterranean where the migrants are being trafficked from.

The EU is providing a better quality of life for its citizens than we are. That’s the only measurement that really matters. Controlling failure is still failure.
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Yet they are trying to come here - why not stay in the EU Utopia?
 
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