Israel v Hamas

[indianapalace85]

Yet you will continue replying to my posts! 😂

Yes it's called answering questions.

No wonder it's alien to you.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

No-one has condoned any of the HAMAS atrocities. But wiping out an entire population of civilians, either by bombing, or starvation, isn't going to gain much kudos. The vast majority of Israeli military action looks indiscriminate, rather than any attempt at targeting HAMAS.

I am not a military expert, but the attached photo is just one such example of Israeli targeted action.
Targeted at who ?

 

[Penge Eagle]

Yes it's called answering questions.

No wonder it's alien to you.

You literally said my thoughts don't deserve the time of day... Then seconds later are giving them the time of day 😂😂😂

 

[indianapalace85]

No-one has condoned any of the HAMAS atrocities. But wiping out an entire population of civilians, either by bombing, or starvation, isn't going to gain much kudos. The vast majority of Israeli military action looks indiscriminate, rather than any attempt at targeting HAMAS.

I am not a military expert, but the attached photo is just one such example of Israeli targeted action.
Targeted at who ?

Don't let Penge Eagle see this, he'll have a heart attack.

Though he'll probably say its been photoshopped.
And none of it matters because it didn't happen on Oct 7th and they started it.

It's like the Where's Wally of Hamas? I guess we won't find one.

 

[georgenorman]

True, but the scale of deaths look on course to be more, at the rate it's been at 21 months already.

Both atrocious. This one looks like there is no end in sight - or at least until every last Palestinian is smoking in their own ashes.

Mao's China?

 

[Penge Eagle]

Don't let Penge Eagle see this, he'll have a heart attack.

Though he'll probably say its been photoshopped.
And none of it matters because it didn't happen on Oct 7th and they started it.

It's like the Where's Wally of Hamas? I guess we won't find one.

It's a photograph from a war. What's your point?

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Meanwhile, back in a two-tier justice system. It's not OK to voice any criticism of Israeli Government /IDF action, as that is anti-Semitic. Shut down any criticism by calling people Jew-haters.

"Writing on X, Sir Ephraim Mirvis wrote:, external "This is a time of national shame. The airing of vile Jew-hatred at Glastonbury and the BBC's belated and mishandled response, brings confidence in our national broadcaster's ability to treat antisemitism seriously to a new low." (BBC)

 

[Phil’s Barber]

Any moment now, Spindle will try to explain how it must be fact that Hamas were hiding on the beaches disguised as sandcastles and in the cafes disguised as tables.

Another despicable act from Israel, deliberately targeting activists, journalists and residents.

There are now several reports regarding this incident - that it was a targeted strike against operatives from terror groups that had gathered at the venue. Aerial surveillance confirmed the gathering and steps were taken to mitigate the risk of harming civilians. Hamas use the human shield tactic repeatedly, they do it with hostages and they do it with their own people, hoping it will reduce the likelihood of an attack or airstrike.

 

[indianapalace85]

There are now several reports regarding this incident - that it was a targeted strike against operatives from terror groups that had gathered at the venue. Aerial surveillance confirmed the gathering and steps were taken to mitigate the risk of harming civilians. Hamas use the human shield tactic repeatedly, they do it with hostages and they do it with their own people, hoping it will reduce the likelihood of an attack or airstrike.

Happy to look at this if you can provide a link or two.

Assuming the reports are not from Israeli sources lol.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

Happy to look at this if you can provide a link or two.

Assuming the reports are not from Israeli sources lol.

Why would that be a lol?

There are two sides to any story.

Some sites are unsurprisingly not commenting on those reports, others are. Why that is I think we can all decide for ourselves.

Sources will generally be close to those involved. You can’t chose only ever to believe one side! I chose not to be so blinkered.

Did you edit your post and add the last sentence when you did a quick google search and saw the updated reports all start to appear?

One link…Israel Army Says Reviewing Deadly Strike On Seafront Gaza Cafe

There are numerous others though.

The reports are through the AFP.

 

[indianapalace85]

Why would that be a lol?

There are two sides to any story.

Some sites are unsurprisingly not commenting on those reports, others are. Why that is I think we can all decide for ourselves.

Sources will generally be close to those involved. You can’t chose only ever to believe one side! I chose not to be so blinkered.

Did you edit your post and add the last sentence when you did a quick google search and saw the updated reports all start to appear?

One link…Israel Army Says Reviewing Deadly Strike On Seafront Gaza Cafe

There are numerous others though.

No, I edited it to add that I suspected that it would just be the Israelis saying what they've said before, Hamas were there.

Predictable.

Please find me any other that is not Israeli biased that can independently verify that Hamas were present.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

It's a photograph from a war. What's your point?

The point I was making, is that the Israeli military action, certainly initially, wasn't very targeted, considering a (very) high percentage of the killed population are civilians and the buildings were their homes and businesses.
I think Israel has every right to go after HAMAS terrorists, but this hammer-blow scorched-earth policy, opens it to particular criticism, especially when aid was prevented from entering Gaza for many months, and is now being distributed my a militarised system.
It is clear Israeli Government policy to wipe out/displace all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. It's called ethnic cleansing. and it's inhumane and illegal

 

[indianapalace85]

The point I was making, is that the Israeli military action, certainly initially, wasn't very targeted, considering a (very) high percentage of the killed population are civilians and the buildings were their homes and businesses.
I think Israel has every right to go after HAMAS terrorists, but this hammer-blow scorched-earth policy, opens it to particular criticism, especially when aid was prevented from entering Gaza for many months, and is now being distributed my a militarised system.
It is clear Israeli Government policy to wipe out/displace all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. It's called ethnic cleansing. and it's inhumane and illegal

Sadly, "inhumane" and "illegal" don't resonate with a disturbingly large amount of people on this board.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The point I was making, is that the Israeli military action, certainly initially, wasn't very targeted, considering a (very) high percentage of the killed population are civilians and the buildings were their homes and businesses.
I think Israel has every right to go after HAMAS terrorists, but this hammer-blow scorched-earth policy, opens it to particular criticism, especially when aid was prevented from entering Gaza for many months, and is now being distributed my a militarised system.
It is clear Israeli Government policy to wipe out/displace all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. It's called ethnic cleansing. and it's inhumane and illegal

You claim to support Israel going after Hamas, yet criticise the only feasible methods available in an urban battlefield where terrorists hide among civilians in schools, mosques, and hospitals. “Very high” civilian casualties are tragic - but compare them to Fallujah, Mosul, Raqqa or Aleppo and you'll see Israel’s strike-to-civilian ratios are actually lower than many Western campaigns.

As for your ethnic cleansing claim - over 2 million Palestinians still live in Gaza, and millions more in the West Bank and Israel itself. That’s not ethnic cleansing - that’s a propaganda line you’ve swallowed.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It stops when a peace treaty is signed when Hamas surrender. The ICC will decide if war crimes are committed - not a bunch of football fans on a message board using BBC articles as evidence!

That’s a start! Why it took so long is another question that can wait.

You are putting conditions on a peace treaty rather than just accepting peace? Peace usually follows negotiations, not ultimatums. Israel’s future security can be guaranteed without first setting preconditions when the priority is to stop the loss of innocent lives, whoever you blame for them. Cease fire first, negotiations next, peace treaty later brokered and underwritten as required.

It doesn’t though answer the other, and much more important questions. Maybe, by implication, it does though. You seem to approve, without any reservations, what Israel are doing.

 

[Penge Eagle]

That’s a start! Why it took so long is another question that can wait.

You are putting conditions on a peace treaty rather than just accepting peace? Peace usually follows negotiations, not ultimatums. Israel’s future security can be guaranteed without first setting preconditions when the priority is to stop the loss of innocent lives, whoever you blame for them. Cease fire first, negotiations next, peace treaty later brokered and underwritten as required.

It doesn’t though answer the other, and much more important questions. Maybe, by implication, it does though. You seem to approve, without any reservations, what Israel are doing.

Fighting in dense civilian areas (like Gaza, Fallujah, or Grozny) can lead to tragic mistakes or force that might appear disproportionate. However to be judge and jury in real time from your armchair on the other side of the world is ridiculous. To hold Israel to a higher account than any other country or even Hamas would show your prejudice. Let the ICC undergo its investigations and allow due process. Unless you don't believe in that? As I said above, this is the only feasible method of combat in urban warfare.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

No, I edited it to add that I suspected that it would just be the Israelis saying what they've said before, Hamas were there.

Predictable.

Please find me any other that is not Israeli biased that can independently verify that Hamas were present.

No, I have better things to do whilst I’m on holiday thanks.

There are numerous reports about it on various platforms. Two sides to every story and we are all entitled to our own opinions. Some will be more valid and rational than others…thats just how it is.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Fighting in dense civilian areas (like Gaza, Fallujah, or Grozny) can lead to tragic mistakes or force that might appear disproportionate. However to be judge and jury in real time from your armchair on the other side of the world is ridiculous. To hold Israel to a higher account than any other country or even Hamas would show your prejudice. Let the ICC undergo its investigations and allow due process. Unless you don't believe in that? As I said above, this is the only feasible method of combat in urban warfare.

You still aren’t answering the questions. You are simply offering your defence of Israel’s actions.

There will be time enough later for the ICC investigation and due process. Innocent people are dying now. Action is required today. Not tomorrow or in the next 10 years!

Israel is not being held to a higher account! It is though reasonable to hold it to account. Do you? That’s the question you are ignoring.

We are all in armchairs, relying on the reports of others. Which is itself being stymied by Israel’s refusal to allow journalists into the territory.

I have though been to Israel. I was there a few weeks prior to the Hamas atrocity. So I have spent time with Israelis. Moderates, hard liners and Arabs. It might not be much, but it is something.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

More than 130 charities and other NGOs are calling for the controversial Israeli and US-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) to be shut down.
Over 500 Palestinians have been killed while seeking aid since the GHF started operating in late May, following Israel's three-month blockade of Gaza, the organisations said. Almost 4,000 have been injured.

The organisations, including Oxfam, Save the Children and Amnesty, say Israeli forces and armed groups "routinely" open fire on Palestinians seeking aid.

 

[indianapalace85]

No, I have better things to do whilst I’m on holiday thanks.

There are numerous reports about it on various platforms. Two sides to every story and we are all entitled to our own opinions. Some will be more valid and rational than others…thats just how it is.

Better things to do but you provide only an Israeli side to the story, claiming there are multiple others, yet choose to ignore providing a single one.

Though I imagine if I'd asked for more Israeli accounts, you would have found time for that whilst on holiday.

I understand. And there we have it.