Christian Palace

[cryrst]

Yes celebrating goals pointing to the clouds looks daft to me.

It's a phrase isn't it - like saying I'm a massive palace fan. I'm not 50 feet tall so I can't say it with physical evidence to back it up. I think you know it's a phrase and you're nit-picking.

Public prayer in say St. Peter's square is fine.
On the tube, in my office, football stadium..bit cringey.

I don't know anything about the Christian doctrine- but I do know that religion has been used for centuries to keep people in check using the fear of god.

Now a few questions for you:
We're all descended from Adam and Eve - which one of them was white, which one Asian, which one was the black one?

In 2 King's 2:23-25 when the 2 bears tore apart a group of boys for mocking Elisha for being bald...do you think that was a bit of an overreaction?

Not for eating their porridge ?

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Wow. I'm genuinely really, really sorry on behalf of who or whatever made you believe this. Something has obviously gone wrong for you along the way...and that's not fair. I'm in it for love...and that's all I experience from my faith. I genuinely hope you resolve the distain you're harbouring around this whole thing

Dont pity me, do you believe all the Old and New testaments? Do you have faith in that?

 

[eaglesdare]

Strange how there is 666 topics and this being the top one at the moment 👀 Omen?

 

[sprites]

Dont pity me, do you believe all the Old and New testaments? Do you have faith in that?

Sorry, that wasn't meant in a condescending way. More of a genuine apology on behalf of whatever church or Christian hurt you to the extent that makes you think religion is about hate.

Yes, I value the bible in its entirety. Of course, there's a lot of debate around literal interpretation, or whether the writers are trying to paint a picture. And honestly, I don't fully get a lot of it. I'm not pretending to be a scholar or have all the answers to every piece of contradiction you throw at me. But I've chosen to live in that uncertainty and be comfortable with 'I don't know' as an answer.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Sorry, that wasn't meant in a condescending way. More of a genuine apology on behalf of whatever church or Christian hurt you to the extent that makes you think religion is about hate.

Yes, I value the bible in its entirety. Of course, there's a lot of debate around literal interpretation, or whether the writers are trying to paint a picture. And honestly, I don't fully get a lot of it. I'm not pretending to be a scholar or have all the answers to every piece of contradiction you throw at me. But I've chosen to live in that uncertainty and be comfortable with 'I don't know' as an answer.

Fair play, enjoy your faith, i respect your view, but cant share it.

 

[HKOwen]

Yes celebrating goals pointing to the clouds looks daft to me.

It's a phrase isn't it - like saying I'm a massive palace fan. I'm not 50 feet tall so I can't say it with physical evidence to back it up. I think you know it's a phrase and you're nit-picking.

Public prayer in say St. Peter's square is fine.
On the tube, in my office, football stadium..bit cringey.

I don't know anything about the Christian doctrine- but I do know that religion has been used for centuries to keep people in check using the fear of god.

Now a few questions for you:
We're all descended from Adam and Eve - which one of them was white, which one Asian, which one was the black one?

In 2 King's 2:23-25 when the 2 bears tore apart a group of boys for mocking Elisha for being bald...do you think that was a bit of an overreaction?

We are not all descended from Adam and Eve.

Creationists are enttiled to their belief, as is everyone.

The bible today is a book that has been amended, changed , edited through the centuries in response to politics of the day. It is not " the word of God " , but the New Testament is a generally recognised history of the life of Jesus and the apostles.

The Old Testament is full of murder and mayhem and I do not regard it as an accurate record of anything. It does have stories of man's inhumanity to man.

 

[HKOwen]

So you choose to have faith in the invisible, whereas I want evidence.

Religious doctrine is designed to impress the idea that proof is unnecessary and that just asking for it is almost sinful. Would that qualify as gas lighting?

You fell for it.

Do you seriously believe that any so called god could be like the Biblical God? Well, you actually do.

It is completely ridiculous.

Perhaps the most miraculous thing about 'God' is that people in the twenty first century still believe in its existence. It was a great sales pitch, but ultimately, it's full of holes if you just care to look for them.

Maybe you are too scared.

The internet is invisible, yet you use it everyday. Gravity is invisible, we just believe what scientists tell us.

The point is belief in anything does not intrinsically require proof, it requires belief.

 

[sprites]

Fair play, enjoy your faith, i respect your view, but cant share it.

Likewise 🙂

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I think my main issue is with the matter-of-fact way you propose your arguments. It's your way or the highway. There's an irony in the fact you say 'no one has it all figured out' (which I totally agree with)...but then go on to state your argument as if you do. It's not a waste of time at all for us to debate life's big topics...I'm not sure why you think it is? Unless your definition of a waste of time is not being able to convince your counterpart over to your way of thinking.

'No offence intended'...yet I'll go and call you a spaghetti monster again. Really mate?

There are honestly legitimate, loving and logical answers to every question you have posed above. But my sense is they will fall on deaf ears. So perhaps we leave it there. I actually enjoy the debate, so thank you. Sorry if you deem it a waste of your time.

I'm not arguing about your right to believe something. I'm arguing about what you believe.

You are now continuing to argue for your belief. That's great, but I know you won't accept rational arguments because the religious mind only deals in faith.

If you have a single credible 'legitimate' argument for anything you believe, then let's see it.

The idea that something might be true because you can't prove otherwise is one of the illegitimate arguments one can put forward. The Spaghetti Monster scenario is about something you cannot prove is not real. So God is like the Spaghetti Monster. It's a Richard Dawkins thing.

You claim god is real. It is for you to prove.


When you're ready.

 

[HKOwen]

A legitimate argument would be it gives somebody peace of mind and a sense of their place in the universe.

I wouldn't dismiss someone who believes aliens helped construct the structures in South America which we can't explain how they were built with current technology never mind what was available in the past

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The internet is invisible, yet you use it everyday. Gravity is invisible, we just believe what scientists tell us.

The point is belief in anything does not intrinsically require proof, it requires belief.

Belief requires no proof. But actuality does.

Gravity is a demonstrable force. We don't understand it, but we know it exists.

The internet exists. We know that. It was created by men.

Air is invisible, but we can prove it is there.

That is a whole lot different in believing in stuff with no evidence that it exists whatsoever.
Some not only believe in it, but base a whole lifestyle around it. Some even claim to talk to God.

If it were anything other than God, one would be thrown in the loony bin.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

A legitimate argument would be it gives somebody peace of mind and a sense of their place in the universe

That is not proof of God. That is simply the idea that belief makes some people happy.

 

[HKOwen]

Why are they happy, because they have a faith that includes a belief in a divine force.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Why are they happy, because they have a faith that includes a belief in a divine force.

What people believe and why is a matter for them.

In this case, I believe that what they believe is nonsense.

I'm not expecting to change a religious mind, but I am challenging someone to show me proof of the existence of God.

Surely such strong belief must be based on something concrete.

Let's see it. I'm here all day.

 

[HKOwen]

The proof argument has been going on for millenia. You are fully entitled to your position but it is a not something that can be equated with scientific conjecture for example.

It's a comparing apples with oranges thing. If you require proof I have nothing to offer.

Anyway, I think we have probably talked this to the the point of circularity.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The proof argument has been going on for millenia. You are fully entitled to your position but it is a not something that be equated with scientific conjecture for example.

It's a comparing apples with oranges thing.

Anyway, I think we have probably talked this to the the point of circularity.

There is no circularity.

I am asking for proof.

Believing in fairytales and imaginary beings is something that children do. Adults don't have an excuse for such irrationality.

Accepting the right to believe is not the same as accepting the validity of that belief.

Morality is one thing. Religious doctrine and adherence to dogma is another.

Christianity in this country is relatively harmless, but elsewhere, religion is far from that.
Millions of religious people are making the world a worse place to live and creating a burden for themselves because of blind faith. It is not just about the right to believe. It has a real world impact that is largely negative.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for evidence that God exists.

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

There is no circularity.

I am asking for proof.

Believing in fairytales and imaginary beings is something that children do. Adults don't have an excuse for such irrationality.

Accepting the right to believe is not the same as accepting the validity of that belief.

Morality is one thing. Religious doctrine and adherence to dogma is another.

Christianity in this country is relatively harmless, but elsewhere, religion is far from that.
Millions of religious people are making the world a worse place to live and creating a burden for themselves because of blind faith. It is not just about the right to believe. It has a real world impact that is largely negative.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for evidence that God exists.

Come on Hrolf - what more proof do you need. You and I both know that God can be whoever you want it to be.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Come on Hrolf - what more proof do you need. You and I both know that God can be whoever you want it to be.


View attachment 1251

No Ritchie Blackmore, blasphemy. 😎

But to Hrolf's defence, there is a certain piousness about SOME, not all, that the Bible is the words of God, which is absolute BS, 35 contributors, over 1200 years for the OT, and the NT being decided 367bc years after the event, By an Egyptian Bishop who done what he thought was best, faith is great for those who believe, but the Bible is a comic book.

 

[ASCPFC]

Once we find the smallest particle possible, will we have found our God? Or will it be some kind of force we don't know about yet? This hinting at Dark matter for example? I don't think the dark matter thing is quite all that it once seemed.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Come on Hrolf - what more proof do you need. You and I both know that God can be whoever you want it to be.


View attachment 1251

The god of pinching other people's girlfriends and other even more odious behaviour, perhaps?

Guitar playing? Not even in the top 1000.