Hrolf The Ganger
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- a sofa somewhere in Kent.
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Christian Palace
- Topic starter eaglesdare
- Start date
Can't. That would somewhat negate the notion of faith, wouldn't it.
Haha. Love the thinking behind this. Humans are given the world as their playground and free will to do as they please. Humans completely and utterly f*** everything up, then throw their hands up in their air and blame God.
ASCPFC
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Ireland
He's been in The Simpsons a couple of times. And Jesus is often in Family Guy. But the holy spirit proves more elusive.
my,my your thinking is very blinkered, based on two comic books, the old and new testament's, you might have well believed fairy's at the bottom of the garden (Conan-Doyle), complete rubbish.
Another well considered, mature and sensible response from you, Lanzo, as we've come to expect.
Let's move on, hey? Find some common ground, perhaps. Gosh I hope Eze stays, don't you?
Hrolf The Ganger
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- a sofa somewhere in Kent.
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England
So you choose to have faith in the invisible, whereas I want evidence.
Religious doctrine is designed to impress the idea that proof is unnecessary and that just asking for it is almost sinful. Would that qualify as gas lighting?
You fell for it.
Do you seriously believe that any so called god could be like the Biblical God? Well, you actually do.
It is completely ridiculous.
Perhaps the most miraculous thing about 'God' is that people in the twenty first century still believe in its existence. It was a great sales pitch, but ultimately, it's full of holes if you just care to look for them.
Maybe you are too scared.
eaglesdare
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England
Who was I kidding of course it was going to end up that way 🤣🤣In the world we live in today I find it so refreshing to see our players openly talking about their faith and even in the goal celebrations. And even in interviews Eze praises God first.
Whether you have faith or not It's certainly brought them even closer together and feel it is a large reason why we won the cup.
‘The one solid rock is Christ’: The Christian faith of the Crystal Palace football team
Crystal Palace secured a David and Goliath-esque victory over Manchester City in the FA Cup final at the weekend. The Premier League team is full of footballers who are open about their Christian faith, and meet regularly to pray together. Did faith play a part in the Eagles' first ever ...www.premierchristianity.com
(Not looking to start an argument over religion or anything like that.)
You nailed it in the first sentence. It could've ended there. The remainder of your post then fell into more of your usual denigrading and offensive rubbish.
I didn't 'fall' for anything. No one's gaslit me into anything. I've spent years delving into these holes you speak about and have come out the otherwise more convinced than ever. I choose to believe based on a number of factors that span everything from logic to real-life experience. I'm certainly not scared of anything - pursuing truth has been one of my sole focuses over the last decade. Don't pretend to know my journey.
What IS completely ridiculous is how you think you've got it allll figured out - and how somehow you are correct and millions around the world are wrong. It must be a really sad, narrow life, void of any sort of hope or positivity. I feel for you.
100% agree. Ultimately you only knock or mock something when you're insecure or unsure about something. If you're confident enough in your beliefs (or unbeliefs in this instance)...you don't feel the need to knock it with such passion. Most people, whether they know it or not, are curious or a little uncertain about what comes next etc...so their discomfort often drives their attitudes around it. It's a shamne.
Religion is hate, not love, every person should be view as a person of the world, not religion, colour, cast, or anything. Socrates was right when he said "i am a person of the world", do you believe in the Old and New Testament, or do you just pick the bits you like, like Athanasius of Alexandria.
Hrolf The Ganger
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- a sofa somewhere in Kent.
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England
Let me first say that I know that arguing with the religious minded is a complete waste of time.
I am wasting my time.
What I will say is that no one has it all figured out. But some of us use our intelligence to realise the absurdity of putting faith in some sort of supreme being with no evidence to support their existence, and plenty of reasons to suppose that such belief is born from indoctrination and an archaic form of ignorance.
No offence intended.
If, for the sake of argument, we were to accept that such a being existed, firstly, so what? Secondly, why would you suppose in your wildest imagination that it would care a damn about individual humans in a universe that is likely teeming with other life forms, or that you should worship such a being?
The Old Testament God is not a very nice supreme being. He is smiting people all over the place. How is this guy someone that you have faith in, and what do you expect to get out of it?
I don't expect a sensible response. Just more of the usual 'spaghetti monster' rhetoric.
The truth is not out there in this case. The truth is within. We made God. God did not make us. Not in any Biblical sense at least.
Yet when I replied on here, you made a snide comment about Rainbow laces...
I don't tend to go round mocking or knocking other people's beliefs - but equally I don't think people need to bring them into a conversation where it's not needed.
Joel Ward dropping a bible verse into an otherwise heartfelt, dignified leaving speech..it made me cringe.
The place for that is surely in church or with his bible friends.
I wouldn't say "Thanks for everything- by the way I'm a massive atheist"
I don't think the rainbow laces thing was right either. You're gay - good for you - you don't need a special day for it.
You voted Brexit, Remain whatever..you do you.
You're Vegan - smashing!
You're religious- i hope it helps you get through life.
Do you need to tell everyone about any of these?
Not really.
There's a place for all of these things and declaring any of them in public is always going to attract people with opposite views.
Personally- I don't think any of them need to be expressed publicly especially within a football environment.
If people respect my beliefs, I respect theirs. Start getting evangelical, then I'll oppose your views.
I think a group of young footballers should be able to be decent human beings because that should be everyone's default mode. If you need the fear of god to make you behave then you're not really a very nice person.
So presumably you have a problem with our players celebrating goals with Christian symbolism or indeed Muslim genuflecting.
Surely an atheist is just that, you can't be somewhat, a bit or indeed a massive atheist.
What do you think for example of public prayer or is it only in football stadiums that you find it cringeworthy.
The bold highlight tells me you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Christian doctrine works, perhaps in Islam and Judaism it's different.
Yes celebrating goals pointing to the clouds looks daft to me.
It's a phrase isn't it - like saying I'm a massive palace fan. I'm not 50 feet tall so I can't say it with physical evidence to back it up. I think you know it's a phrase and you're nit-picking.
Public prayer in say St. Peter's square is fine.
On the tube, in my office, football stadium..bit cringey.
I don't know anything about the Christian doctrine- but I do know that religion has been used for centuries to keep people in check using the fear of god.
Now a few questions for you:
We're all descended from Adam and Eve - which one of them was white, which one Asian, which one was the black one?
In 2 King's 2:23-25 when the 2 bears tore apart a group of boys for mocking Elisha for being bald...do you think that was a bit of an overreaction?
I think my main issue is with the matter-of-fact way you propose your arguments. It's your way or the highway. There's an irony in the fact you say 'no one has it all figured out' (which I totally agree with)...but then go on to state your argument as if you do. It's not a waste of time at all for us to debate life's big topics...I'm not sure why you think it is? Unless your definition of a waste of time is not being able to convince your counterpart over to your way of thinking.
'No offence intended'...yet I'll go and call you a spaghetti monster again. Really mate?
There are honestly legitimate, loving and logical answers to every question you have posed above. But my sense is they will fall on deaf ears. So perhaps we leave it there. I actually enjoy the debate, so thank you. Sorry if you deem it a waste of your time.
Wow. I'm genuinely really, really sorry on behalf of who or whatever made you believe this. Something has obviously gone wrong for you along the way...and that's not fair. I'm in it for love...and that's all I experience from my faith. I genuinely hope you resolve the distain you're harbouring around this whole thing.
I think we largely agree. I don't think there's any issue here, Pikester.
I suppose my only retort though, would be that after 13 years at a football club, Wardy had the right to sort of share whatever he wanted. And his faith is obviously that important to him. No one would bat an eyelid if he thanked his wife or kids...so how is thanking his God any different? It's someone who's very important to him and someone he credits for his success. Is what it is...?