Glasner Out

Eaglecoops said:
I watched the Coventry Southampton game, thoroughly entertaining in terms of speed of movement and attempts to get in and score.

I was in a pub yesterday with all three 2.00 PL games on. The Utd game looked ok but the Forest Fulham and Palace Leeds matches were appalling.

I’m not sure Championship team fans will want to come up if that is the way you are expected to play to get a result.
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I watch more championship matches than epl on tv now.
much more exciting and no var!!

I would say much less rolling around grasping their heads when they haven't been touched too bus s'oton bucked that trend on saturday a couple of times.

It was a quality game on saturday though.
 
Asking for a friend, but can there be a stop to the call to put Paddy in charge for the rest of the season nonsense.

Ok, it's actually me asking ( no friends you see ) but this and the constant same old criticism of tactics etc. is as boring as the home games are at the moment.

If it hasn't already sunk in, OG is not going to change. As of this moment we are 3 points from an unlikely Conference League qualification and still actually competing for that competition. All of the clubs below us and I'm sure a couple just above would swap places with us if they could.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at events of this season. But it's not all on Glasner.

My wishes for this week are a win on Thursday and that this thread is closed down.
 
One of the biggest issues in the squad at the moment is the lack of creativity in defence. You can see the gap that Guehi has left - Canvot receives the ball and either goes really simple (sideways to Lacroix/Richards) or he tries a progressive pass but he doesn't have the same ball playing creativity that Guehi has. This has disjointed the whole team's rhythm,

- When Mitchell pushes forward with the ball, the left sided 10 moves inwards and he used to have Guehi to help him play the triangles further up the pitch. Canvot just doesn't give that support.

- All forward passes that were over 20 yards used to come from Wharton and Guehi - now with no Guehi, this mostly comes through Wharton and for our opposition, just mark Wharton and you've closed that avenue of attack.

- Guehi used to come forward with the ball, which in doing so allowed the 10 to move from their "post" and create space and movement up front. Canvot is not doing that, which means that we are now more rigid in attack and easier to read.

Calling for a change in formation from what the entire squad and coaching staff have been used to for 2 years in the middle of March is ridiculous, whatever the circumstances. Most important thing is, we are not losing many games (2 since January!) so why would we now change formation?
We have a crucial European tie on Thursday, we are safe in the league and we have a really decent squad to build from for next season. Yes the football is boring to watch but unfortunately it has to be due to the points made above. It's also nowhere near the dredge crap that Roy used to serve us towards the end of his tenure.
 
NEILLO said:
Asking for a friend, but can there be a stop to the call to put Paddy in charge for the rest of the season nonsense.

Ok, it's actually me asking ( no friends you see ) but this and the constant same old criticism of tactics etc. is as boring as the home games are at the moment.

If it hasn't already sunk in, OG is not going to change. As of this moment we are 3 points from an unlikely Conference League qualification and still actually competing for that competition. All of the clubs below us and I'm sure a couple just above would swap places with us if they could.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at events of this season. But it's not all on Glasner.

My wishes for this week are a win on Thursday and that this thread is closed down.
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Three points on your post, 1 if everyone knows he isn't going to change, and we are getting worse game by game, why is he still manager, 2, if you want to win the conference, we will not win it with the tactics he uses, so why is he still manager, 3, if its not all on Glasner, who is it about.
 
SurbsEagle said:
One of the biggest issues in the squad at the moment is the lack of creativity in defence. You can see the gap that Guehi has left - Canvot receives the ball and either goes really simple (sideways to Lacroix/Richards) or he tries a progressive pass but he doesn't have the same ball playing creativity that Guehi has. This has disjointed the whole team's rhythm,

- When Mitchell pushes forward with the ball, the left sided 10 moves inwards and he used to have Guehi to help him play the triangles further up the pitch. Canvot just doesn't give that support.

- All forward passes that were over 20 yards used to come from Wharton and Guehi - now with no Guehi, this mostly comes through Wharton and for our opposition, just mark Wharton and you've closed that avenue of attack.

- Guehi used to come forward with the ball, which in doing so allowed the 10 to move from their "post" and create space and movement up front. Canvot is not doing that, which means that we are now more rigid in attack and easier to read.

Calling for a change in formation from what the entire squad and coaching staff have been used to for 2 years in the middle of March is ridiculous, whatever the circumstances. Most important thing is, we are not losing many games (2 since January!) so why would we now change formation?
We have a crucial European tie on Thursday, we are safe in the league and we have a really decent squad to build from for next season. Yes the football is boring to watch but unfortunately it has to be due to the points made above. It's also nowhere near the dredge crap that Roy used to serve us towards the end of his tenure.
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I am in agreement with your tactical observations and have made similar points on HOL and privately.
 
Lanzo-Ad said:
Three points on your post, 1 if everyone knows he isn't going to change, and we are getting worse game by game, why is he still manager, 2, if you want to win the conference, we will not win it with the tactics he uses, so why is he still manager, 3, if its not all on Glasner, who is it about.
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1. Ask Steve Parish
2. That’s your opinion, not a fact - but also see 1.
3. Whoever oversaw the the transfer window last summer - this has been debated on many occasions…..
 
SurbsEagle said:
One of the biggest issues in the squad at the moment is the lack of creativity in defence. You can see the gap that Guehi has left - Canvot receives the ball and either goes really simple (sideways to Lacroix/Richards) or he tries a progressive pass but he doesn't have the same ball playing creativity that Guehi has. This has disjointed the whole team's rhythm,

- When Mitchell pushes forward with the ball, the left sided 10 moves inwards and he used to have Guehi to help him play the triangles further up the pitch. Canvot just doesn't give that support.

- All forward passes that were over 20 yards used to come from Wharton and Guehi - now with no Guehi, this mostly comes through Wharton and for our opposition, just mark Wharton and you've closed that avenue of attack.

- Guehi used to come forward with the ball, which in doing so allowed the 10 to move from their "post" and create space and movement up front. Canvot is not doing that, which means that we are now more rigid in attack and easier to read.

Calling for a change in formation from what the entire squad and coaching staff have been used to for 2 years in the middle of March is ridiculous, whatever the circumstances. Most important thing is, we are not losing many games (2 since January!) so why would we now change formation?
We have a crucial European tie on Thursday, we are safe in the league and we have a really decent squad to build from for next season. Yes the football is boring to watch but unfortunately it has to be due to the points made above. It's also nowhere near the dredge crap that Roy used to serve us towards the end of his tenure.
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Largely with Lanzo on this. Parish and Co have (unsurprisingly) decided that PL survival is the no.1 priority, and it has to be said that keeping OG appears to have been the correct call in that regard.

This season has shown glaring holes in his managerial ability, which prior to that xmas period, wasn't particularly prevalent.

The no 'plan b' accusation is thrown at managers with regularity, and it's clear that OG doesn't or is unwilling to use one - even when against less players or when it's obvious 'plan a' it's not working. There's now an argument that 'plan a' isn't working either.
I've always thought that what differentiates a Good manager from a Great manager is the ability to change things to solve problems, either in game or in training. OG has shown neither, so he remains only a Good manager.

But Lanzo is right, we won't win the conference with these Tactics, and that more than anything is really disappointing; Our first foray into Europe and we've wholly underperformed. furthermore we've got clear talent in the squad, whose potential we are not seeing as OG hasn't been able to find a way to use them effectively.

We could be, should be doing a lot better. and that's on the manager.
 
SurbsEagle said:
One of the biggest issues in the squad at the moment is the lack of creativity in defence. You can see the gap that Guehi has left - Canvot receives the ball and either goes really simple (sideways to Lacroix/Richards) or he tries a progressive pass but he doesn't have the same ball playing creativity that Guehi has. This has disjointed the whole team's rhythm,

- When Mitchell pushes forward with the ball, the left sided 10 moves inwards and he used to have Guehi to help him play the triangles further up the pitch. Canvot just doesn't give that support.

- All forward passes that were over 20 yards used to come from Wharton and Guehi - now with no Guehi, this mostly comes through Wharton and for our opposition, just mark Wharton and you've closed that avenue of attack.

- Guehi used to come forward with the ball, which in doing so allowed the 10 to move from their "post" and create space and movement up front. Canvot is not doing that, which means that we are now more rigid in attack and easier to read.

Calling for a change in formation from what the entire squad and coaching staff have been used to for 2 years in the middle of March is ridiculous, whatever the circumstances. Most important thing is, we are not losing many games (2 since January!) so why would we now change formation?
We have a crucial European tie on Thursday, we are safe in the league and we have a really decent squad to build from for next season. Yes the football is boring to watch but unfortunately it has to be due to the points made above. It's also nowhere near the dredge crap that Roy used to serve us towards the end of his tenure.
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Excellent analysis.

Where I disagree is the assertion that ‘it would be ridiculous’ to change the formation at this stage of the season.

Manchester United and Leeds have both shown significant improvement since changing their formations during the season to suit their available resources.
It can be done.

Our system worked well by and large with Guehi, Eze, a fit and firing Mateta and a fit and available Munoz.
Take those components out and it doesn’t work.
You end up with compromises e.g Devenny, Clyne, Sosa or Johnson as RWB which clearly does not work.
Nketiah, Devenny, Kamada and Pino have been tried in the Eze role and again it doesn’t work.
It’s not just they don’t have Eze’s quality, they look ill at ease in the position.
Furthermore, it’s becoming more evident each game that Larsen is a very different proposition to Mateta.
He doesn’t have Mateta’s physical presence or power to hold up the play and bring others into the game, which was key to Glasner’s system working.
Larsen needs early delivery (which he’s not getting) in order to demonstrate his finishing prowess.

Can anybody seriously claim that Glasner’s system is getting the best out of the available players?
I would contend that it does not suit the majority of the squad and results and performances in the last few months have demonstrated that.
 
NEILLO said:
Asking for a friend, but can there be a stop to the call to put Paddy in charge for the rest of the season nonsense.

Ok, it's actually me asking ( no friends you see ) but this and the constant same old criticism of tactics etc. is as boring as the home games are at the moment.

If it hasn't already sunk in, OG is not going to change. As of this moment we are 3 points from an unlikely Conference League qualification and still actually competing for that competition. All of the clubs below us and I'm sure a couple just above would swap places with us if they could.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at events of this season. But it's not all on Glasner.

My wishes for this week are a win on Thursday and that this thread is closed down.
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clearly football is all about opinions, and i'm happy for people to disagree with me but we know OG won't change the system, hence why a change would not be a terrible thing (IMHO).

The glass half full argument that we are not far off a decent position is ignoring how many points we've been quite fortunate to get (Burnley and Fulham away before Xmas spring immediately to mind) and recent wins have hardly been emphatic (Wolves and Brighton etc).

Although OG has an European title to his name and so deserves respect the current tactics will not win us the Conf league, and possibly not even Thursday's game.

My biggest concern is the in game tactics - things change within games, goals, both for and against, opposition tactics, sending offs, injuries etc yet it is the same old regardless.

Similarly the argument that we can't change tactics midway through a season is so so misguided.
Firstly, EVERY player grows up playing 442 or 433 so it's hardly a radical formation.
Clubs change manager mid season regularly and each manager has a slightly different playing style - players adjust (a bit like OG's first season). Look at Man U under Carrick as a perfect example.
Similarly, tactics change mid game - the team is losing, let's put another striker on etc.
Finally, some teams, such as Brentford change their tactics depending on the opposition (so 352 or 433) etc.

For me it's not mid season, we are 80% through the season and with c£3m for each place a few more points would be welcome. I also think entertainment should be a factor and we have been anything but for most of this season. Even with c£100m of extra forwards in January the improvement has been limited.

Having played and watched football for over 50 years whilst you occasionally get a freak result ultimately the more shots you have, the more good quality crosses you put into the opposition box, the more possession you have in the final 3rd etc the more likely you are to win games.

It's that simple IMHO and currently i don't think we really have any tactics for scoring in open play other than moment of magic/luck etc.

If that's not down to the manager, i don't know what is.
 
Furthermore, if we are truly 'safe' and not realistically going to win the conference. Why bother persisting with OG?
I'd have hoped we've identified our favorite replacement. so get him in, give him the last 10 games of the season to evaluate the squad, and to give our xfer window the best chance to be successful.
 
CrazyBadger said:
Furthermore, if we are truly 'safe' and not realistically going to win the conference. Why bother persisting with OG?
I'd have hoped we've identified our favorite replacement. so get him in, give him the last 10 games of the season to evaluate the squad, and to give our xfer window the best chance to be successful.
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According to some, we aren't safe.

And while we are still in the Conference then we still have a chance of winning it. Your opinion clearly is that we won't, but that doesn't alter the fact.

You may '' hope '' we have a replacement lined up for OG. And we might have. But he may not be available until the end of his contract.
 
NEILLO said:
According to some, we aren't safe.

And while we are still in the Conference then we still have a chance of winning it. Your opinion clearly is that we won't, but that doesn't alter the fact.

You may '' hope '' we have a replacement lined up for OG. And we might have. But he may not be available until the end of his contract.
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fair enough.
Personally don't think we're definitely safe yet, I'd go with 'probably safe' - another 3 points wouldn't go amiss.

As I mentioned, I can't see us winning the conference playing like we are. In fact I think we'd have a better chance with a different philosophy going forward from here. but if the first choice isn't available, I understand that.
 
NEILLO said:
According to some, we aren't safe.

And while we are still in the Conference then we still have a chance of winning it. Your opinion clearly is that we won't, but that doesn't alter the fact.

You may '' hope '' we have a replacement lined up for OG. And we might have. But he may not be available until the end of his contract.
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just to be pedantic , whilst we are in the Conference we have a chance of winning it regardless of whom is our manager.

That is also a fact.
 
palace99 said:
can't disagree with any of this. he has struggled at previous clubs after initial success and it was telling he only signed a 2.5 year contract initially.

I remember when we had injuries early last season and we lost poorly at home to Fulham after OG refused to change the formation and put 4 or 5 into positions they weren't suited to i said he would be ok if we had a fully fit 1st X1 but the moment 2 or 3 regulars are missing we will struggle.

It's the same when we sell a player , which let's face it is a regular occurrence in football, he struggles to integrate new players.

The last few games has shown his limitations. Going down to 10 men at Man U he immediately puts on an extra central defender - why when you are a man down.

What has he learnt from the Larnaca game 4 months ago? It appears nothing.

What do you change when the opposition go down to 10 men? It appears nothing.

The 3421 works well away from home when teams usually have to push forward and have the bulk of the possession. In fact it's a good formation.

Against lesser opposition, especially at home, it is so limited. Central defenders are usually the least creative players on the ball so allowing them possession rarely leads to a goal. I remember Coppell doing this in the 4-3 v Liverpool in 1990 and that defender was Alan Hansen, arguably one of the best.
So you can see teams quite happy when our 3 play it in triangles.

Yesterday the space was down Mitchell's side yet at no point did i see OG insist one of the 10s go over and assist him, and of course the like for like subs were just so predictable.

The after much comments were so predictable too - difficult to play against 10, respect the point, we moved the ball too slowly (yes as per EVERY game), we are better off this season than most other seasons etc - ignoring that we have broken our transfer record twice in the last window.

It is currently as bad as under Roy and yet the players are on paper so much better.

I don't like to see managers go, and he deserves so much respect for what he has achieved, however, if/when we go out in Europe he might as well go and we can put Paddy in charge until the end of the season.

I can't be bothered to go to the pub to watch the game on Thursday now. Hopefully we will win and i'll get the chance to go to Florence, but it will not be a good watch.
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It certainly is as bad as under Roy, but I don't think this current crop are any better than what Roy had, and so I checked the 2018/19 season to make sure - Speroni, Ward, PVA, Dann, Tomkins, Milivojevic, McArthur, Kouyate, Schlupp, Townsend, Zaha etc - most of those would walk into this team with ease.
The problem is Glasner's inability to use the players he has in any meaningful way.
 
PatrickA said:
Excellent analysis.

Where I disagree is the assertion that ‘it would be ridiculous’ to change the formation at this stage of the season.

Manchester United and Leeds have both shown significant improvement since changing their formations during the season to suit their available resources.
It can be done.

Our system worked well by and large with Guehi, Eze, a fit and firing Mateta and a fit and available Munoz.
Take those components out and it doesn’t work.
You end up with compromises e.g Devenny, Clyne, Sosa or Johnson as RWB which clearly does not work.
Nketiah, Devenny, Kamada and Pino have been tried in the Eze role and again it doesn’t work.
It’s not just they don’t have Eze’s quality, they look ill at ease in the position.
Furthermore, it’s becoming more evident each game that Larsen is a very different proposition to Mateta.
He doesn’t have Mateta’s physical presence or power to hold up the play and bring others into the game, which was key to Glasner’s system working.
Larsen needs early delivery (which he’s not getting) in order to demonstrate his finishing prowess.

Can anybody seriously claim that Glasner’s system is getting the best out of the available players?
I would contend that it does not suit the majority of the squad and results and performances in the last few months have demonstrated that.
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I'd completely agree. And the Utd example is clearly very pertinent.

I wouldn't be pushing to throw this formation out, more to have some in game flexibility.

10 mins into the 2nd half yesterday it was clear that we were struggling to create. Given the fact that they were down to 10, 2 relatively straightforward changes might have been:

Take off one of the CBs and play a 10. So bring Pino or Kamada on to do that.
or
Bring JP on to partner Larsson


Instead the 60 min change he made were like for like.
 
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