What and who are the English?

[PalazioVecchio]

From my experience in London pubs Irishmen are more likely to be a bit wary of each other than be particularly concerned about a stray Englishman in their company.

we are all belligerent and enjoy a good ruck. On many levels i prefer the English to the irish.....the latter seem friendly, we are often smiling while taking a photograph of your credit card numbers, and arranging for your wife to meet us at a Travelodge.
The English seem to encompass either the very best of humanity or occasionally the very worst. Its either Enid Blyton picnics, Evelyn Waugh mansions and cricket on the lawn........or its a drunken fight at the queue at Alton Towers.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

i will agree with you, just after you prove there is no such thing as gender.

Regarding English identity , there is a curious paradox in the way you look at History of England. For many commentators, it seems to be.....

Romans are referred to as .....'them'
Vikings.......them
Normans.....them

Anglo-Saxons......Us, we,
Celtic-Britons 500 AD......both them and us.
Stonehenge Neolithic types........ ?

King Arthur, the Celt......one of Us.
Good King Billy...........one of us, British ( he wasn't )

King Alfred..........one of us
King Canute........one of them

and for the BBC.....post 1945 newcomers.......Us.

Celts is just a generic name to cover a load of different European tribes. Like Vikings. Not a definable ethnic group.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

6% of the population are "the face of Britain" apparently. A face that has attacked our culture, demanded rights and greater privilege than everyone else, and generally causes a great deal of trouble and concern for the majority.

He described the UK as a "community of communities where Muslims are at the forefront of Britain's story", he thanked the community for their "brilliance and service to our country," specifically acknowledging professionals like doctors, teachers, actors, and journalists, stating it was his government's job to tell this "deeper story" of Muslim contribution to "drown out the voices that seek to divide us".

I've never ever been a Tory or remotely on the right wing, but this is a threat to English culture and northern European heritige. Reform just won my vote from undecided thanks to this clear path. I'll take any pain, I'll be ok with that.

One of the Labour MPs recently said "You can't out reform Reform" and that's why Labour have taken a swing to the lunatics lurching to the Greens.

Starmer is an absolute shyster. We must rid ourselves of these self serving scumbags.

 

[DanH]

Ethnicity matters.

Allegiance matters more.

A time is coming where that will be proven.

Is this your balls finally growing? 👀

 

[Stirlingsays]

Is this your balls finally growing? 👀

Dude, you just don't read my posts properly.

And stop trying to look at my balls.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

Celts is just a generic name to cover a load of different European tribes. Like Vikings. Not a definable ethnic group.

Celtic languages are a family. All related with much in common.

what you assert is equivalent to saying Slavs are not real cos its a load of different tribes. Not a definable ethnic group. Slavs are real, Celts are real, Catalans and Kurds are also real even though everybody tries to deny it.

Celtic languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The modern 'English' have been established as a recognisable group since the European invasions/migrations 1500 years ago. They pushed the so called Celts out to the periphery of Britain. Before that, the so called Celtic tribes were here from maybe 3000 year ago. The Beaker people arrived about 4500 years ago and were probably 'Celts' as well. They replaced the neolithic Britons that had been here since the ice age ended.
What we have seen in the last 50 years is a massive and swift change in demographics from regions of the world which bear no cultural or genetic similarity to English heritage. The English are what was here before that. A long established and stable population of genetically and culturally similar people.

Can you just become English? No. Can you embrace Englishness and be accepted by the English? Yes.

You have a choice. With us or against us.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Celtic languages are a family. All related with much in common.

what you assert is equivalent to saying Slavs are not real cos its a load of different tribes. Not a definable ethnic group. Slavs are real, Celts are real, Catalans and Kurds are also real even though everybody tries to deny it.

Celtic languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They are real but not a 'race'. Just a blanket definition.

 

[Stirlingsays]

we are all belligerent and enjoy a good ruck. On many levels i prefer the English to the irish.....the latter seem friendly, we are often smiling while taking a photograph of your credit card numbers, and arranging for your wife to meet us at a Travelodge.
The English seem to encompass either the very best of humanity or occasionally the very worst. Its either Enid Blyton picnics, Evelyn Waugh mansions and cricket on the lawn........or its a drunken fight at the queue at Alton Towers.

Some of the most creative people seem to be a mix of English with Irish.....Wilde, Beatles, Yeats, Beckett, Kate Bush, Morrissey, David Bowie.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

They are real but not a 'race'. Just a blanket definition.

ok whatever. We are getting close to the Lefty territory of 'race is merely a social construct' wherein i would need to book a few padded cells at the Laughing Academy.

Discussions of identity and ethnicity are often a nightmare. See Northern Ireland where the British tribe and the Irish Tribe dispute the identity of the Land. And both groups wants the other one to feckoff away 'back to where they came from'. Their only true point of agreement is that they all hate the English.

Anyhoo.....back to the OP, who are the English ? Its almost an impossible question to answer without...

a. some fecker disagreeing with you
b. somebody getting personal with the insults
c. Some fruitcake at the BBC having a nutty answer to the question
d. some totally wrong answers being bandied about

my final word is you gotta take the ugly with the beautiful. Warts and all. The good AND the bad. We all must do that for every respective identity.
So 'English' is the bloke who invented the internet (Tim Berners lee) and also Ian Huntley/Peter Sutcliffe. French is Joan of Arc and Robespierre. Irish is the monks at the very start of the Western christianity story AND the horrific Magdalene Laundries.

how about this : You are English when you do not have much of an alternate back-story to compete with. Either of your own admission or from a.n other pointing the finger and decrying your lack of honesty. You can also be English/other duel ...at the same time. Like Cliff Richard.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

ok whatever. We are getting close to the Lefty territory of 'race is merely a social construct' wherein i would need to book a few padded cells at the Laughing Academy.

Discussions of identity and ethnicity are often a nightmare. See Northern Ireland where the British tribe and the Irish Tribe dispute the identity of the Land. And both groups wants the other one to feckoff away 'back to where they came from'. Their only true point of agreement is that they all hate the English.

Anyhoo.....back to the OP, who are the English ? Its almost an impossible question to answer without...

a. some fecker disagreeing with you
b. somebody getting personal with the insults
c. Some fruitcake at the BBC having a nutty answer to the question
d. some totally wrong answers being bandied about

my final word is you gotta take the ugly with the beautiful. Warts and all. The good AND the bad. We all must do that for every respective identity.
So 'English' is the bloke who invented the internet (Tim Berners lee) and also Ian Huntley/Peter Sutcliffe. French is Joan of Arc and Robespierre. Irish is the monks at the very start of the Western christianity story AND the horrific Magdalene Laundries.

Race is not a scientific definition. Humans are all one species, but you would have to be blind or stupid not to see that there is some differentiation going on within that species. People within a group with similar genetic characteristics are referred to commonly as a race, which is fine, but then you also have religious groups claiming to be a race which is obvious crap. You can have a religion which predominantly followed one so called race, but that's as far as it goes.

The trouble with race is how do you separate one from another. Black people for example aren't the same as Europeans, but they are more diverse than anyone else, having been around longer. What about the Japanese? They aren't all the same. Some have more European genetic heritage.

Confused? You will be.

 

[DanH]

Dude, you just don't read my posts properly.

And stop trying to look at my balls.

Just a little fondle. We can keep it between us.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

is he Jamaican ?