US Politics

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I thought it was obvious. Mea culpa.

I refer you to my previous post.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They should have done their job as representatives. They aren’t delegates. Which is why referendums are not part of our democracy.

Consulting the people to know how they feel is ok, but deciding to act on a referendum which was subjected to so much outside influence over an event like Brexit, the consequences of which became much clearer as time passed and the complexities emerged, was irresponsible.

Parliament is elected by us to represent our interests and take decisions on our behalf. They aren’t there to reflect the interests of press barons or Russia. There is no role for advertising campaigns or newspaper headlines. Just well informed representation free of outside pressures.

That’s far from any kind of psychosis. It’s a simple explanation of our democracy.

Brexit represents a failure of our democracy. Not a triumph of it.

The sooner our MPs begin to recognise that and reverse it the better. No referendum. Just a vote in Parliament.

Yet another reason for making sure Reform decline as quickly as they have grown.

Self serving twaddle.

Referendums are most certainly part of democracy. We elect politicians to make decisions and they decided to have a referendum. It's so simple and yet you can't accept it.

Newspapers influence elections. They also influence referendums. Nothing new.
The idea that people voted Leave because of Russian influence is just bonkers. Just another one of your deluded excuses.
When Reform win the next election, I hope they will take full advantage of our independence from Europe. We don't need corrupt, self serving unelected individuals in Brussels making our laws for us. We have the House of Lords for that. Maybe we can sort them out too.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Self serving twaddle.

Referendums are most certainly part of democracy. We elect politicians to make decisions and they decided to have a referendum. It's so simple and yet you can't accept it.

Newspapers influence elections. They also influence referendums. Nothing new.
The idea that people voted Leave because of Russian influence is just bonkers. Just another one of your deluded excuses.
When Reform win the next election, I hope they will take full advantage of our independence from Europe. We don't need corrupt, self serving unelected individuals in Brussels making our laws for us. We have the House of Lords for that. Maybe we can sort them out too.

You are simply wrong.

Referendums have no legal status whatsoever in British democracy. That they have been used by Parliament on an ad hoc basis, with them committing to respect the result, doesn’t change that. The decision to do that rests solely with Parliament. They can choose to hold one, or not. It’s not mandated in any way. Once held they can decide to accept the result, or not. Even if they committed to accepting it. They can decide that things have changed so much, as it did with Brexit, that the result has become unreliable and therefore invalidated.

It’s really important that this fundamental tenet of our democracy becomes better understood or we will allow control to pass away from us into the hands of the super rich. We don’t want to imitate the USA. We need our representatives to be free to determine what we need. Newspapers and other media should inform voters at General Elections. Once done our choices decide until the next election.

The Russian involvement in western politics, here, in Europe and the USA is undeniable. To argue it doesn’t happen is disingenuous.

If Reform do win, I anticipate they will quickly foul up so badly that the distaste we now see for Labour will look like fulsome praise. They have no policies. They just have promises. Buyer remorse over Brexit is already very evident. The salesman who sold that misfiring vehicle was Farage. The voters are going to be reminded of that.

Would you buy another car from one who sold you a duff in 2016?

 

[eaglesdare]

I guess if we had another referendum to rejoin the EU and it won. I guess it has no legal status whatsoever in British democracy so we can just ignore it then.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You are simply wrong.

Referendums have no legal status whatsoever in British democracy. That they have been used by Parliament on an ad hoc basis, with them committing to respect the result, doesn’t change that. The decision to do that rests solely with Parliament. They can choose to hold one, or not. It’s not mandated in any way. Once held they can decide to accept the result, or not. Even if they committed to accepting it. They can decide that things have changed so much, as it did with Brexit, that the result has become unreliable and therefore invalidated.

It’s really important that this fundamental tenet of our democracy becomes better understood or we will allow control to pass away from us into the hands of the super rich. We don’t want to imitate the USA. We need our representatives to be free to determine what we need. Newspapers and other media should inform voters at General Elections. Once done our choices decide until the next election.

The Russian involvement in western politics, here, in Europe and the USA is undeniable. To argue it doesn’t happen is disingenuous.

If Reform do win, I anticipate they will quickly foul up so badly that the distaste we now see for Labour will look like fulsome praise. They have no policies. They just have promises. Buyer remorse over Brexit is already very evident. The salesman who sold that misfiring vehicle was Farage. The voters are going to be reminded of that.

Would you buy another car from one who sold you a duff in 2016?

No one cares.

In the real world, the referendum happened and you lost. The result was accepted except by people like you.
There is no buyer remorse over Brexit. Politics is moving to the right and Brexit has had far less negative effect on the economy than was predicted.

I'm not going round in circles with this. You keep blaming those Russians. Good luck with that.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I guess if we had another referendum to rejoin the EU and it won. I guess it has no legal status whatsoever in British democracy so we can just ignore it then.

No it wouldn’t. It would require Parliament to act, which they ought to do without wasting money on another referendum. Parliament is the sole decision maker in British politics, for everything other than matters it has delegated to other organisations. That it has delegated it can also remove.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

No one cares.

In the real world, the referendum happened and you lost. The result was accepted except by people like you.
There is no buyer remorse over Brexit. Politics is moving to the right and Brexit has had far less negative effect on the economy than was predicted.

I'm not going round in circles with this. You keep blaming those Russians. Good luck with that.

You are again wrong. That you don’t care is par for your course. It isn’t for mine and for the many millions who also care about our democracy.

If you don’t think there is buyer’s remorse over Brexit you are proving you don’t live in the real world at all. People were already waking up to the folly of the decision during the years between the vote and the final withdrawal. The shenanigans over the “deal” when it was supposed to be “over ready” and full of juicy goodies was more than enough. Refusing to hold a confirmation referendum demonstrates just how aware the Brexiteers were that they would lose, having been shown up as the con men they are. Now there is little doubt people regret it very strongly and would re-enter.

I don’t blame the Russians. I blame those who accepted their help. They are traitors, pseudo patriots cloaking themselves in our flag.

 

[Common Sense Club]

You are again wrong. That you don’t care is par for your course. It isn’t for mine and for the many millions who also care about our democracy.

If you don’t think there is buyer’s remorse over Brexit you are proving you don’t live in the real world at all. People were already waking up to the folly of the decision during the years between the vote and the final withdrawal. The shenanigans over the “deal” when it was supposed to be “over ready” and full of juicy goodies was more than enough. Refusing to hold a confirmation referendum demonstrates just how aware the Brexiteers were that they would lose, having been shown up as the con men they are. Now there is little doubt people regret it very strongly and would re-enter.

I don’t blame the Russians. I blame those who accepted their help. They are traitors, pseudo patriots cloaking themselves in our flag.

Not sure what the nearest airport is to you, probably Newquay, but you might want to check whether there are any flights to the EU from there, as you are sorely missing their comfort blanket.

 

[eaglesdare]

No it wouldn’t. It would require Parliament to act, which they ought to do without wasting money on another referendum. Parliament is the sole decision maker in British politics, for everything other than matters it has delegated to other organisations. That it has delegated it can also remove.

So you wouldn't be happy to rejoin the EU with a referendum?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You are again wrong. That you don’t care is par for your course. It isn’t for mine and for the many millions who also care about our democracy.

If you don’t think there is buyer’s remorse over Brexit you are proving you don’t live in the real world at all. People were already waking up to the folly of the decision during the years between the vote and the final withdrawal. The shenanigans over the “deal” when it was supposed to be “over ready” and full of juicy goodies was more than enough. Refusing to hold a confirmation referendum demonstrates just how aware the Brexiteers were that they would lose, having been shown up as the con men they are. Now there is little doubt people regret it very strongly and would re-enter.

I don’t blame the Russians. I blame those who accepted their help. They are traitors, pseudo patriots cloaking themselves in our flag.

There is an irony in bleating about democracy and then wishing to undermine it by handing power to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

And then, in another Wisbech classic, you want to reaffirm a referendum that you don't believe in by having another one.

With respect. You are bonkers.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Not sure what the nearest airport is to you, probably Newquay, but you might want to check whether there are any flights to the EU from there, as you are sorely missing their comfort blanket.

No need to check, there are and I have used them. They fly both to Dublin and Spain. Dublin being a more convenient hub than London if flying west. I don’t need comfort blankets. Just common sense. The real stuff. Not just claimed in an undeserved moniker.

 

[Common Sense Club]

No need to check, there are and I have used them. They fly both to Dublin and Spain. Dublin being a more convenient hub than London if flying west. I don’t need comfort blankets. Just common sense. The real stuff. Not just claimed in an undeserved moniker.

I need to correct you...my undeserved moniker (as you term it), is not necessarily a reflection of myself but a name I chose to indicate that CPFC were using common sense to try and overturn UEFA's decision to relegate us to the Conference League. Sorry to disappoint you on that front.

 

[eaglesdare]

Off topic a little. School shooting in canada. (Seems to be from the he/him/her/whatever brigade)

Ten dead and more than 25 injured as Canada suffers deadliest school shooting this century

The suspect, described only as a woman in a dress with brown hair, is among the dead

www.gbnews.com

How does this happen in a country with stricter Gun laws than the US?

 

[ASCPFC]

Off topic a little. School shooting in canada. (Seems to be from the he/him/her/whatever brigade)

Ten dead and more than 25 injured as Canada suffers deadliest school shooting this century

The suspect, described only as a woman in a dress with brown hair, is among the dead

www.gbnews.com

How does this happen in a country with stricter Gun laws than the US?

Could they have possibly bought the gun in the US?

This article talks of the Southern border but the north could have similar.

US gun trafficking to Mexico: Independent gun shops supply the most dangerous weapons

Independent gun dealers supplied 83% of crime guns seized in Mexico and traced back to purchases in the US. Chain stores supplied the other 17%.

theconversation.com

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

There is an irony in bleating about democracy and then wishing to undermine it by handing power to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

And then, in another Wisbech classic, you want to reaffirm a referendum that you don't believe in by having another one.

With respect. You are bonkers.

There is only irony in the minds of those unable to see anything other than their own prejudices. We never ever handed power to unelected bureaucrats anywhere. We delegated responsibility. Something that could be withdrawn by Parliament, so the power always resided with them. We all delegate responsibility every day and we can all choose not to. That our Parliament chose to withdraw proves that.

I didn’t want a confirmation referendum. I wanted Parliament to abide by their own convictions and do their duty. They believed Brexit was an error. Their duty to us was to act on that belief. The concept of another referendum was simply a proposal to try to avoid political chaos from people like you. It wasn’t necessary.

I don’t think you are bonkers. I don’t resort to childish slurs. I think you are fixated with concepts that don’t stand up to critical examination.

 

[Common Sense Club]

There is only irony in the minds of those unable to see anything other than their own prejudices. We never ever handed power to unelected bureaucrats anywhere. We delegated responsibility. Something that could be withdrawn by Parliament, so the power always resided with them. We all delegate responsibility every day and we can all choose not to. That our Parliament chose to withdraw proves that.

I didn’t want a confirmation referendum. I wanted Parliament to abide by their own convictions and do their duty. They believed Brexit was an error. Their duty to us was to act on that belief. The concept of another referendum was simply a proposal to try to avoid political chaos from people like you. It wasn’t necessary.

I don’t think you are bonkers. I don’t resort to childish slurs. I think you are fixated with concepts that don’t stand up to critical examination.

So, as I read it you are disappointed that Parliament did not revoke/reverse the Brexit situation. Parliament should make it's own decisions and referendums, public opinion should be ignored until the next general election. Parliament decides and we accept their choices.
So if Reform win the next general election and get a majority, you would be happy that they chose not to revoke Brexit?

 

[eaglesdare]

Could they have possibly bought the gun in the US?

This article talks of the Southern border but the north could have similar.

US gun trafficking to Mexico: Independent gun shops supply the most dangerous weapons

Independent gun dealers supplied 83% of crime guns seized in Mexico and traced back to purchases in the US. Chain stores supplied the other 17%.

theconversation.com

Maybe Canada need to then take a leaf out of the US books and tighten border controls 😅

 

[ASCPFC]

Maybe Canada need to then take a leaf out of the US books and tighten border controls 😅

It's pretty tight but you're never going to stop everything.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I need to correct you...my undeserved moniker (as you term it), is not necessarily a reflection of myself but a name I chose to indicate that CPFC were using common sense to try and overturn UEFA's decision to relegate us to the Conference League. Sorry to disappoint you on that front.

Something I actually agree with very strongly, although using it as a name still feels pretty self indulgent.

 

[eaglesdare]

It's pretty tight but you're never going to stop everything.

That's what she said....🤭