Glasner Out

[Jim_Cannon]

Surely the real madness is trying to play exactly the same way in every single match. Having a system is great but how do you adapt mid game when it’s not working unless you practice alternatives on the training pitch.

Or are you saying that it’s ok to expect to lose when your formation doesn’t work?

We are not losing because of a formation. How many games have we been tactically out played? Leeds is only game we were second best and that was down to Leeds wanting to win more. Fulham just took advantage of the lack of energy in the second half.

In the last game we were getting leggy from about 60 odd minutes and Ollie should have made the 2 changes he did 10 minutes earlier so the front three could keep pressing and keep Fulham further up the pitch. Glasner has the best win percentage of any palace manager playing this way so it clearly works

Can you provide clear examples to back up your argument that the formation doesn’t work?

 

[Paul Salvage]

I watch every match, probably 65% on tv. I agree 3 at the back is our standard baseline which in my opinion makes the two most important positions on the pitch the wing backs. I could never understand why we didn’t get proper wingback cover in for Munoz. Clyne and Devenney are ok but neither are wingbacks and Canvot clearly cannot play there.

I don’t see too many formation (pre-substitutions) changes in game, more that the wingbacks are able to stay higher up the pitch when we are on top. The problems for me start in matches when we begin to lose the midfield. Leeds was a great example, they smashed us to pieces through the middle then fed the sides when our wingbacks came in to help out. They totally dominated us. We also lost the middle of the park when Hughes went off against Fulham and Lerma moved up as well.

Tiredness is definitely a factor in that midfield area and there may be opportunities to play two CFs closer together up top and play 3 in midfield so the formation would end up more of a 5-3-2. In reality I don’t really care what he does to change it as long as it works however every fan could see Fulham were going to score in the recent game and yet changes only occurred after they equalised.

I don’t want to criticise Glasner because of what he has achieved however he is not entirely free from scrutiny as the timing of and strategic nature of substitutions and in game formation tweeks is a big part of the game.

We have dropped 8 points from a winning position so far this season. One of the problems is that we struggle to get that second goal, then we run out of steam and don’t have the quality of players on the bench that can keep us in front. I would just like to see us dig in a bit more with a low block and grind out a result.
Hodgsons football was turgid to watch and he rarely used his bench, but he could grind out a 1-0 win.

 

[Paul Salvage]

We are not losing because of a formation. How many games have we been tactically out played? Leeds is only game we were second best and that was down to Leeds wanting to win more. Fulham just took advantage of the lack of energy in the second half.

In the last game we were getting leggy from about 60 odd minutes and Ollie should have made the 2 changes he did 10 minutes earlier so the front three could keep pressing and keep Fulham further up the pitch. Glasner has the best win percentage of any palace manager playing this way so it clearly works

Can you provide clear examples to back up your argument that the formation doesn’t work?

I don’t believe anyone is saying the formation doesn’t work as it clearly has brought us success. I think the main complaint is that we currently do not have the players to play the system effectively, especially after 60min when fatigue kicks in and the quality of the subs in general have made us weaker.

 

[cjh]

Realistically, where could OG go if he decides to leave? He's not going to Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool or Aston Villa. Chelsea might have been a possibility but he wouldn't put up with the interference from the directors. Man U and Tottenham might be options if they don't improve before the end of the season. Maybe Newcastle if Howe gets the England job after the World Cup? So, it would have to be somewhere in Germany. Does he really want to swap the Premier League for the Bundesliga?

So, maybe he will stay after all.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Has he gone yet?

Who

 

[Jim_Cannon]

I don’t believe anyone is saying the formation doesn’t work as it clearly has brought us success. I think the main complaint is that we currently do not have the players to play the system effectively, especially after 60min when fatigue kicks in and the quality of the subs in general have made us weaker.

Why would changing the formation make a difference then?

 

[Jim_Cannon]

We have dropped 8 points from a winning position so far this season. One of the problems is that we struggle to get that second goal, then we run out of steam and don’t have the quality of players on the bench that can keep us in front. I would just like to see us dig in a bit more with a low block and grind out a result.
Hodgsons football was turgid to watch and he rarely used his bench, but he could grind out a 1-0 win.

Hodgson did a decent job but his mindset was not lose rather than win. If your ambition is stay up and nothing more then fine go for Hodgson

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

The same tactics come round but they are called differently, Herbert Chapmans W-M formation, of the 1920s is almost the same, wingers or wingbacks, inside forwards or 2 No 10s, Charles Hughe was ridiculed for his FA manual, that said 91% of goals come from 3 passes or left, so he advised, set pieces and Long throw ins, err, like now.

 

[Paul Salvage]

Why would changing the formation make a difference then?

The recent goals conceded have been because the opposition players have had too much time to either pick out a pass or shoot. Just 2 examples of that ( Harlands first goal came from a cross where we didn’t press) Fulham goal came from too much time on the edge of the box for Cairney to place the ball in the corner and again no Palace player near him.
Please understand I don’t want the formation to change when we have the players available to be effective, I.e Munoz energy to get up and down, it’s just about game management!!

All I’m suggesting is that LATER in the game when we are under the cosh we pack out the defence and midfield. The wingbacks get caught up the pitch, so the covering centre back fills that space and can’t get back so the 2 holding midfielders and the remaining 2 centre backs get over run. We all knew that we would concede in the end to Fulham and I believe OG even eluded to that in his press conference!

 

[Paul Salvage]

Hodgson did a decent job but his mindset was not lose rather than win. If your ambition is stay up and nothing more then fine go for Hodgson

Why can’t we have both. How many teams do you see take a 1-0 lead then grind out a result. There is nothing wrong with that, even Arsenal are happy to win 1-0

 

[Ex Dubai Eagle]

Why can’t we have both. How many teams do you see take a 1-0 lead then grind out a result. There is nothing wrong with that, even Arsenal are happy to win 1-0

After taking a 1 goal lead the opposition often throw players forward to get the equalizer which leaves more space behind them for us to break, if we can get the second it effectively kills the game with 10 / 15 minutes remaining, where we have struggled is getting that second goal which the longer the game goes on has left us vulnerable to conceding.

With a fully fit first team we are absolutely a lot better at managing games out of possession than we have ever been in past years, but as things are lately with so many established first teamers out I think the decision as to whether to go for the second or pack the defence is really one that needs to be taken on the fly based on what you see in front of you from the touchline at that specific time (+ the bench) quite frankly, whatever decision you take if you get a good outcome your a genius, if it doesn't your criticised.

 

[Elwissthebest]

Realistically, where could OG go if he decides to leave? He's not going to Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool or Aston Villa. Chelsea might have been a possibility but he wouldn't put up with the interference from the directors. Man U and Tottenham might be options if they don't improve before the end of the season. Maybe Newcastle if Howe gets the England job after the World Cup? So, it would have to be somewhere in Germany. Does he really want to swap the Premier League for the Bundesliga?

So, maybe he will stay after all.

If we lose to Villa, that will be one point from eighteen. A couple of weeks ago we were fifth, tonight we are fourteenth. Just saying. So if the Manager thinks he can browbeat the Chairman, he might find himself on gardening leave.
Ten years ago almost to the day, we were sitting fifth in the Premiership. Then Pardew decided he should be managing Chelsea- or was it England?- and after that, for him, and Palace, it was downhill all the way.
The curse of fifth place strikes again.

 

[Ex Dubai Eagle]

If we lose to Villa, that will be one point from eighteen. A couple of weeks ago we were fifth, tonight we are fourteenth. Just saying. So if the Manager thinks he can browbeat the Chairman, he might find himself on gardening leave.
Ten years ago almost to the day, we were sitting fifth in the Premiership. Then Pardew decided he should be managing Chelsea- or was it England?- and after that, for him, and Palace, it was downhill all the way.
The curse of fifth place strikes again.

Not to detract from the validity of your post (its early morning & I need more coffee) but I make it that if we lose to villa it will be 1 point from a possible 15 - the Arsenal game in the midst of that run was a cup game.

As for Manager / Chairman talks I would hope that they would be more centred on "fixes"(to get us through the current injuries / Afcon / 3 competition game list) rather than blaming each other (Either publicly or in private) waiting for things to get better isnt an option, our walking wounded are several weeks away & Ish is at Afcon where Senegal are likely going to go deep into the competition.

 

[taylors lovechild]

The bookies have been quick to install Glasner as one of the favourites for the United job. Maresca is also in there, but given his fallout with Chelsea and his associations with City I wonder how likely he is for the job. Of course, if United do want Glasner it might be they are happy to wait until his contract expires, leaving an interim in place like they did before.

A big tick for United is that Glasner uses a similar system to Amorim, but has actually made it work in the PL with far smaller resources. With players like Cunha and Mbuemo to play as inside forwards and utilising Sesko in the JP role I think they'd do well. His philosophy is also to create as many chances as possible in as direct a way as possible, which buys into the fan philosophy of Attack, Attack, Attack. On the downside, he's never managed a big club. As much as I'd hate OG to leave (especially to United) I can't see a more logical option for them.

 

[JHB]

The bookies have been quick to install Glasner as one of the favourites for the United job. Maresca is also in there, but given his fallout with Chelsea and his associations with City I wonder how likely he is for the job. Of course, if United do want Glasner it might be they are happy to wait until his contract expires, leaving an interim in place like they did before.

A big tick for United is that Glasner uses a similar system to Amorim, but has actually made it work in the PL with far smaller resources. With players like Cunha and Mbuemo to play as inside forwards and utilising Sesko in the JP role I think they'd do well. His philosophy is also to create as many chances as possible in as direct a way as possible, which buys into the fan philosophy of Attack, Attack, Attack. On the downside, he's never managed a big club. As much as I'd hate OG to leave (especially to United) I can't see a more logical option for them.

United being United I think they’ll want a bigger name. Also think our current form will count against OG. Let’s see though.

 

[MrRobbo]

The bookies have been quick to install Glasner as one of the favourites for the United job. Maresca is also in there, but given his fallout with Chelsea and his associations with City I wonder how likely he is for the job. Of course, if United do want Glasner it might be they are happy to wait until his contract expires, leaving an interim in place like they did before.

A big tick for United is that Glasner uses a similar system to Amorim, but has actually made it work in the PL with far smaller resources. With players like Cunha and Mbuemo to play as inside forwards and utilising Sesko in the JP role I think they'd do well. His philosophy is also to create as many chances as possible in as direct a way as possible, which buys into the fan philosophy of Attack, Attack, Attack. On the downside, he's never managed a big club. As much as I'd hate OG to leave (especially to United) I can't see a more logical option for them.

There are a lot of reasons OG would do well there.

However, he's a low possession, counterattacking tactician. Thats fine for plucky underdogs, but won't work for a club aiming to return to the very top.

 

[Palacesince64]

The bookies have been quick to install Glasner as one of the favourites for the United job. Maresca is also in there, but given his fallout with Chelsea and his associations with City I wonder how likely he is for the job. Of course, if United do want Glasner it might be they are happy to wait until his contract expires, leaving an interim in place like they did before.

A big tick for United is that Glasner uses a similar system to Amorim, but has actually made it work in the PL with far smaller resources. With players like Cunha and Mbuemo to play as inside forwards and utilising Sesko in the JP role I think they'd do well. His philosophy is also to create as many chances as possible in as direct a way as possible, which buys into the fan philosophy of Attack, Attack, Attack. On the downside, he's never managed a big club. As much as I'd hate OG to leave (especially to United) I can't see a more logical option for them.

United don’t have the players to play 5 at the back. It was Amorin who was wedded to it despite this so it makes no sense to go for Amorin unless they buy our back 5 as well.

Glasner may not be quite as outspoken as Amorin but he is not averse to falling out with the board. I don’t see this as a good fit for either side but it is hard to refuse United when they come calling.

Until recent months I would have been gutted to lose Glasner but his persistence with the same players and system when we look shot so early in the season makes me less bothered if he goes. If he does go would Parish be interested in Amorin or Maresco?

 

[Elwissthebest]

There are a lot of reasons OG would do well there.

However, he's a low possession, counterattacking tactician. Thats fine for plucky underdogs, but won't work for a club aiming to return to the very top.

That's surely correct. I can't see Glasner going to any club where dominance of possession is a given.

 

[JHB]

That's surely correct. I can't see Glasner going to any club where dominance of possession is a given.

Also where the expectation is a win every game. OG has done well at getting clubs to punch above their weight but in most of his jobs he’s had extended periods of poor form and results. That will get tolerated by a club like ours but not at Man Utd. The sort of run we are on now or were at the start of last season would get him fired quick time at United.

 

[thai-eagle]

Also where the expectation is a win every game. OG has done well at getting clubs to punch above their weight but in most of his jobs he’s had extended periods of poor form and results. That will get tolerated by a club like ours but not at Man Utd. The sort of run we are on now or were at the start of last season would get him fired quick time at United.

Hopefully OG get a couple more signings and decide to stay. Of course we are missing Munoz/Sarr, but why is our players more or less always never hitting the target? Like Hughes in Newcastle and Mateta on numerous occasions. Not to mention the Spurs game. Wish OG could come up with an answer here...