Main Stand redevelopment thread

A lot of fantasy talk in here.

No point wasting money on current ground. (It's not only about the ground but the transport links etc this was one of the main issues we ran into with just this new stand)

SP comes out with a lot of rubbish he appears to think people are stupid.

We could have found another site and already have started work on a new stadium which is required 45 thousand minimum is what we need.

It's about long term not short term this has been the issue with other Palace owners (Noades is the only one who had a lot of plans & back then managed to cut a deal for stadium at Crystal Palace park also he did own a lot of the houses around Selhurst)

People should go watch a lot of his past interviews he explains a lot about the ground etc. (Somethings may have change but really money talks if you really want to do things pay the right people we saw the same situation with Academy Text fronted the cash it happens SP for years messed about)
 
The issue with another site for a stadium, I cant think of anywhere with public transport connections we could go to locally or even further south, around the old croydon airport maybe but liable to be issues with access etc. The only obvious place is Crystal Palace park but we all know thats a total no go. So unless there is a brownfield site we can redevelop we are stuck with Selhurst.
 
The issue with another site for a stadium, I cant think of anywhere with public transport connections we could go to locally or even further south, around the old croydon airport maybe but liable to be issues with access etc. The only obvious place is Crystal Palace park but we all know thats a total no go. So unless there is a brownfield site we can redevelop we are stuck with Selhurst.
But we have two stations close to Selhurst now and where would we find a stadium or an area where we could build an arena (with the very expensive land costs). We are in the proverbial devil and the deep sea.
 
But we have two stations close to Selhurst now and where would we find a stadium or an area where we could build an arena (with the very expensive land costs). We are in the proverbial devil and the deep sea.
3. Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction all within 10 mins walking distance of the ground. To say transport links are poor is just ridiculous. Hardly any other club in London is serviced by 3 different train stations and is on a major bus route
 
3. Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction all within 10 mins walking distance of the ground. To say transport links are poor is just ridiculous. Hardly any other club in London is serviced by 3 different train stations and is on a major bus route
I have heard some commentators on the television assert that Selhurst Park is a hard ground to get to !!
 
I really don’t understand what the problem is with regard upping the capacity.
Everyone seems up in arms saying that the extra capacity will disrupt the area and cause chaos.
We regularly used to get 30, 40k in the 70s and 80s. There didn’t seem to be a problem then, so why is it now?
As mentioned earlier, we have three train stations, plenty of busses and a car park (all be it rather small) which is far more than many clubs have.
 
Sainsbury's car pack could be levitated about 500 feet for flying cars, that would make space for redevelopment, and we'll no doubt be watching holograms of android players in virtual 3D. Burgers will be replaced by protein pills, and the Crystals by dancing sexbots. You heard it here first.
Bring it on!!!
 
3. Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction all within 10 mins walking distance of the ground. To say transport links are poor is just ridiculous. Hardly any other club in London is serviced by 3 different train stations and is on a major bus route

On top of the train stations mentioned, even at 65 I can walk to the ground from either East or West Croydon stations so current transport links are hardly an issue / we would be hard pressed to find better ones, especially further out (OK I dont walk fast these days, especially the walk back after having had a few sherbets in the afternoon, but the point is that its still doable)
 
I really don’t understand what the problem is with regard upping the capacity.
Everyone seems up in arms saying that the extra capacity will disrupt the area and cause chaos.
We regularly used to get 30, 40k in the 70s and 80s. There didn’t seem to be a problem then, so why is it now?
As mentioned earlier, we have three train stations, plenty of busses and a car park (all be it rather small) which is far more than many clubs have.
Fewer cars parked up then and driving around the area. Just saying…
 
On top of the train stations mentioned, even at 65 I can walk to the ground from either East or West Croydon stations so current transport links are hardly an issue / we would be hard pressed to find better ones, especially further out (OK I dont walk fast these days, especially the walk back after having had a few sherbets in the afternoon, but the point is that its still doable)

Same, I always used to walk down Sydenham road back to East Croydon, never understood why so many people jumped on a train at selhurst to get off at East Croydon, it must only be about half a mile walk.
 
I have stuck in my two penneth worth on this subject in the past, speaking as one who works in the world of planning and is also something of a stadium geek.

For me, the idea of a new main stand roughly as tall as the holmesdale was the only show in town as soon as uncle Ron built the latter in the mid 90s; To have a ground where the biggest stand is behind the goal and everything else is half the height is every bit as mad as stopping the game to watch a video, or playing a world cup in the winter; It goes against the established norm. On a similar point, the new main stand will be an architectural oddity if the other two stands remain half it's height.

Anyway, my own view has always been that it may be possible to redevelop selhurst into a good, traditional, 40,000-plus ground akin to villa park, at least so far as planning regulations and physical space are concerned.

The main stand has approval. In fact, it got approved in record time and, as we all know, requires the demolition of nearby council houses. This is not an arrangement that most councils would accept. The idea that Croydon council don't want to help the club is palpably wrong. It's not up to the council to find us land for a stadium, or to build anything for us. Their job is to say yay or nay to whatever the club proposes, and they said yay. Quickly. Requiring replacement houses and some minor improvements to the area is the very least they are due, and they'd be negligent if they didn't insist on them. That's just how the system works. Development is indirectly taxed. Furthermore, reading between the lines of several things Parish has said on the matter, it seems clear that the council may well be prepared to use compulsory purchase powers to buy the Sainsbury's ransom strip if an impasse lingers. It's far quicker to just agree a deal, but the council wants the investment in the area and that's exactly what CPO powers are for. I see no reason to view them as anything other than on the clubs side, insofar as sides can be taken. Fair play to Parish, perhaps he wants to build a working relationship with Sainsbury's and that's why we haven't had to go down the CPO route, but I strongly suspect the council has the club's back on that issue.

So, odds and sods aside, the main stand can go ahead. The holmesdale exists. Sometimes I wonder how. It's height relative to the houses opposite is not something you would bank on being approved again. Doesn't matter now, it's there. It doesn't set a precedent though, as the decision to approve is so old that we couldn't rely on it if trying to build a similar building in place of the Arthur, which faces out onto houses over a similar distance.

The biggest issue regarding the Arthur, however, is that the current stand holds some 9500 people. For context, the new main stand would replace one holding 5500 with one holding 13500, a massive uplift in capacity. The same is not true of the Arthur, as it's so big already. Even if the club rebuild the Arthur in a mirror image of the new main stand, they won't get anything like the same capacity increase, and that's without considering that all the executive facilities would be harder to accommodate in the Arthur, as there isn't the car park etc there to facilitate it. It wouldn't pay for itself anything like as quickly, if at all.

Furthermore, there are a lot of houses along park road which may have their light and outlook harmed by a new, tall, Arthur. As has been pointed out, the houses on park road are (we presume) privately owned rather than council owned, so the idea of buying them just to knock them down requires either careful buying up over time and/or the council to CPO them. Liverpool did this. In our case, I can't see it. We are not as rich a club as Liverpool and the houses are worth a lot more. Moreover, the lack of housing in London is such that we would have to provide replacements elsewhere. That's been hard enough with six houses in the main stand project, so Christ knows how palace would manage it for three or four times as many on park road. Personally, I think a refurbished Arthur would be the way to go.

The Whitehorse is interesting. If we had bottomless pockets we could perhaps look at building a similar stand there to the holmesdale and providing Sainsbury's with a new, replacement store underneath as part of it, as the stand and the supermarket make a big enough plot between them for such a development. I'm pretty sure the houses facing Whitehorse lane don't have rear windows, so it's not quite as constrained as it might seem. The uplift in capacity from such a project would be huge (around 6000 more). I sometimes wonder if Parish has all this in mind when negotiating with Sainsbury's over the main stand ransom strip; They may hold a good few cards in the longer term.

So, 8500 in the holmesdale. 13500 in the new main stand. 9500 in the Arthur at present. If the Whitehorse can be made into 8500 too, we are getting to 39000, then fill in the corners.

To return the overall architectural incompleteness a single-tier Arthur would result in, I'd turn my attention to various clever schemes to squeeze executive boxes or a small upper tier over the top, perhaps mid-way towards the pitch, or even just a roof at a steeper pitch to meet the roofs of the holmesdale and a new Whitehorse. That wouldn't block light or views to houses on park road, and would join up the ground neatly.

Ultimately, if the Whitehorse stand redevelopment was made possible, everything else falls into place. Basically, one stand exists (holmesdale), one has been approved (main), so if the Whitehorse is possible it makes sense to compromise a bit on the Arthur. In idle moments I even wonder about a new, continuous roof flowing from the main stand out over the holmesdale and new Whitehorse, down over the Arthur. It could look good. A little unusual perhaps, but good.

Of course, the elephant in the room is funding. Textor was quite vocal about how much he helped with the costs of the academy (fair enough) and the Americans have helped out with a few loans here and there. FFP (which is real, by the way) prevents them splurging on players, but not on bricks and mortar. I wonder what they are there for if not to invest in redevelopment, and the club have welcomed them in, yet the main stand project drags on. Why is not clear. If it paid for itself in a reasonable period, surely that's exactly where an outside investor would put their dough? Ultimately, if the sums aren't attractive then the rest falls away. For me, that's where the real issue is.
 
A lot of fantasy talk in here.

No point wasting money on current ground. (It's not only about the ground but the transport links etc this was one of the main issues we ran into with just this new stand)

SP comes out with a lot of rubbish he appears to think people are stupid.

We could have found another site and already have started work on a new stadium which is required 45 thousand minimum is what we need.

It's about long term not short term this has been the issue with other Palace owners (Noades is the only one who had a lot of plans & back then managed to cut a deal for stadium at Crystal Palace park also he did own a lot of the houses around Selhurst)

People should go watch a lot of his past interviews he explains a lot about the ground etc. (Somethings may have change but really money talks if you really want to do things pay the right people we saw the same situation with Academy Text fronted the cash it happens SP for years messed about)
But we haven't.

If we were going to reconsider a move elsewhere, this would be the time. Unfortunately, we can't wait another 10 years to make it happen. We need more capacity ASAP.
 
The issue with another site for a stadium, I cant think of anywhere with public transport connections we could go to locally or even further south, around the old croydon airport maybe but liable to be issues with access etc. The only obvious place is Crystal Palace park but we all know thats a total no go. So unless there is a brownfield site we can redevelop we are stuck with Selhurst.
Crystal Palace Park is a nightmare to get to without adding 40000 odd thousand fans trying to get to a game. Really is a non starter.
 
I have stuck in my two penneth worth on this subject in the past, speaking as one who works in the world of planning and is also something of a stadium geek.

For me, the idea of a new main stand roughly as tall as the holmesdale was the only show in town as soon as uncle Ron built the latter in the mid 90s; To have a ground where the biggest stand is behind the goal and everything else is half the height is every bit as mad as stopping the game to watch a video, or playing a world cup in the winter; It goes against the established norm. On a similar point, the new main stand will be an architectural oddity if the other two stands remain half it's height.

Anyway, my own view has always been that it may be possible to redevelop selhurst into a good, traditional, 40,000-plus ground akin to villa park, at least so far as planning regulations and physical space are concerned.

The main stand has approval. In fact, it got approved in record time and, as we all know, requires the demolition of nearby council houses. This is not an arrangement that most councils would accept. The idea that Croydon council don't want to help the club is palpably wrong. It's not up to the council to find us land for a stadium, or to build anything for us. Their job is to say yay or nay to whatever the club proposes, and they said yay. Quickly. Requiring replacement houses and some minor improvements to the area is the very least they are due, and they'd be negligent if they didn't insist on them. That's just how the system works. Development is indirectly taxed. Furthermore, reading between the lines of several things Parish has said on the matter, it seems clear that the council may well be prepared to use compulsory purchase powers to buy the Sainsbury's ransom strip if an impasse lingers. It's far quicker to just agree a deal, but the council wants the investment in the area and that's exactly what CPO powers are for. I see no reason to view them as anything other than on the clubs side, insofar as sides can be taken. Fair play to Parish, perhaps he wants to build a working relationship with Sainsbury's and that's why we haven't had to go down the CPO route, but I strongly suspect the council has the club's back on that issue.

So, odds and sods aside, the main stand can go ahead. The holmesdale exists. Sometimes I wonder how. It's height relative to the houses opposite is not something you would bank on being approved again. Doesn't matter now, it's there. It doesn't set a precedent though, as the decision to approve is so old that we couldn't rely on it if trying to build a similar building in place of the Arthur, which faces out onto houses over a similar distance.

The biggest issue regarding the Arthur, however, is that the current stand holds some 9500 people. For context, the new main stand would replace one holding 5500 with one holding 13500, a massive uplift in capacity. The same is not true of the Arthur, as it's so big already. Even if the club rebuild the Arthur in a mirror image of the new main stand, they won't get anything like the same capacity increase, and that's without considering that all the executive facilities would be harder to accommodate in the Arthur, as there isn't the car park etc there to facilitate it. It wouldn't pay for itself anything like as quickly, if at all.

Furthermore, there are a lot of houses along park road which may have their light and outlook harmed by a new, tall, Arthur. As has been pointed out, the houses on park road are (we presume) privately owned rather than council owned, so the idea of buying them just to knock them down requires either careful buying up over time and/or the council to CPO them. Liverpool did this. In our case, I can't see it. We are not as rich a club as Liverpool and the houses are worth a lot more. Moreover, the lack of housing in London is such that we would have to provide replacements elsewhere. That's been hard enough with six houses in the main stand project, so Christ knows how palace would manage it for three or four times as many on park road. Personally, I think a refurbished Arthur would be the way to go.

The Whitehorse is interesting. If we had bottomless pockets we could perhaps look at building a similar stand there to the holmesdale and providing Sainsbury's with a new, replacement store underneath as part of it, as the stand and the supermarket make a big enough plot between them for such a development. I'm pretty sure the houses facing Whitehorse lane don't have rear windows, so it's not quite as constrained as it might seem. The uplift in capacity from such a project would be huge (around 6000 more). I sometimes wonder if Parish has all this in mind when negotiating with Sainsbury's over the main stand ransom strip; They may hold a good few cards in the longer term.

So, 8500 in the holmesdale. 13500 in the new main stand. 9500 in the Arthur at present. If the Whitehorse can be made into 8500 too, we are getting to 39000, then fill in the corners.

To return the overall architectural incompleteness a single-tier Arthur would result in, I'd turn my attention to various clever schemes to squeeze executive boxes or a small upper tier over the top, perhaps mid-way towards the pitch, or even just a roof at a steeper pitch to meet the roofs of the holmesdale and a new Whitehorse. That wouldn't block light or views to houses on park road, and would join up the ground neatly.

Ultimately, if the Whitehorse stand redevelopment was made possible, everything else falls into place. Basically, one stand exists (holmesdale), one has been approved (main), so if the Whitehorse is possible it makes sense to compromise a bit on the Arthur. In idle moments I even wonder about a new, continuous roof flowing from the main stand out over the holmesdale and new Whitehorse, down over the Arthur. It could look good. A little unusual perhaps, but good.

Of course, the elephant in the room is funding. Textor was quite vocal about how much he helped with the costs of the academy (fair enough) and the Americans have helped out with a few loans here and there. FFP (which is real, by the way) prevents them splurging on players, but not on bricks and mortar. I wonder what they are there for if not to invest in redevelopment, and the club have welcomed them in, yet the main stand project drags on. Why is not clear. If it paid for itself in a reasonable period, surely that's exactly where an outside investor would put their dough? Ultimately, if the sums aren't attractive then the rest falls away. For me, that's where the real issue is.
All reasonable.

All I would say is that although it would provide a smaller increase in capacity, the Arthur would not cost anything like as much as the Main Stand because it would not include the same elements and would therefore likely have a smaller footprint.
 
I have stuck in my two penneth worth on this subject in the past, speaking as one who works in the world of planning and is also something of a stadium geek.

For me, the idea of a new main stand roughly as tall as the holmesdale was the only show in town as soon as uncle Ron built the latter in the mid 90s; To have a ground where the biggest stand is behind the goal and everything else is half the height is every bit as mad as stopping the game to watch a video, or playing a world cup in the winter; It goes against the established norm. On a similar point, the new main stand will be an architectural oddity if the other two stands remain half it's height.

Anyway, my own view has always been that it may be possible to redevelop selhurst into a good, traditional, 40,000-plus ground akin to villa park, at least so far as planning regulations and physical space are concerned.

The main stand has approval. In fact, it got approved in record time and, as we all know, requires the demolition of nearby council houses. This is not an arrangement that most councils would accept. The idea that Croydon council don't want to help the club is palpably wrong. It's not up to the council to find us land for a stadium, or to build anything for us. Their job is to say yay or nay to whatever the club proposes, and they said yay. Quickly. Requiring replacement houses and some minor improvements to the area is the very least they are due, and they'd be negligent if they didn't insist on them. That's just how the system works. Development is indirectly taxed. Furthermore, reading between the lines of several things Parish has said on the matter, it seems clear that the council may well be prepared to use compulsory purchase powers to buy the Sainsbury's ransom strip if an impasse lingers. It's far quicker to just agree a deal, but the council wants the investment in the area and that's exactly what CPO powers are for. I see no reason to view them as anything other than on the clubs side, insofar as sides can be taken. Fair play to Parish, perhaps he wants to build a working relationship with Sainsbury's and that's why we haven't had to go down the CPO route, but I strongly suspect the council has the club's back on that issue.

So, odds and sods aside, the main stand can go ahead. The holmesdale exists. Sometimes I wonder how. It's height relative to the houses opposite is not something you would bank on being approved again. Doesn't matter now, it's there. It doesn't set a precedent though, as the decision to approve is so old that we couldn't rely on it if trying to build a similar building in place of the Arthur, which faces out onto houses over a similar distance.

The biggest issue regarding the Arthur, however, is that the current stand holds some 9500 people. For context, the new main stand would replace one holding 5500 with one holding 13500, a massive uplift in capacity. The same is not true of the Arthur, as it's so big already. Even if the club rebuild the Arthur in a mirror image of the new main stand, they won't get anything like the same capacity increase, and that's without considering that all the executive facilities would be harder to accommodate in the Arthur, as there isn't the car park etc there to facilitate it. It wouldn't pay for itself anything like as quickly, if at all.

Furthermore, there are a lot of houses along park road which may have their light and outlook harmed by a new, tall, Arthur. As has been pointed out, the houses on park road are (we presume) privately owned rather than council owned, so the idea of buying them just to knock them down requires either careful buying up over time and/or the council to CPO them. Liverpool did this. In our case, I can't see it. We are not as rich a club as Liverpool and the houses are worth a lot more. Moreover, the lack of housing in London is such that we would have to provide replacements elsewhere. That's been hard enough with six houses in the main stand project, so Christ knows how palace would manage it for three or four times as many on park road. Personally, I think a refurbished Arthur would be the way to go.

The Whitehorse is interesting. If we had bottomless pockets we could perhaps look at building a similar stand there to the holmesdale and providing Sainsbury's with a new, replacement store underneath as part of it, as the stand and the supermarket make a big enough plot between them for such a development. I'm pretty sure the houses facing Whitehorse lane don't have rear windows, so it's not quite as constrained as it might seem. The uplift in capacity from such a project would be huge (around 6000 more). I sometimes wonder if Parish has all this in mind when negotiating with Sainsbury's over the main stand ransom strip; They may hold a good few cards in the longer term.

So, 8500 in the holmesdale. 13500 in the new main stand. 9500 in the Arthur at present. If the Whitehorse can be made into 8500 too, we are getting to 39000, then fill in the corners.

To return the overall architectural incompleteness a single-tier Arthur would result in, I'd turn my attention to various clever schemes to squeeze executive boxes or a small upper tier over the top, perhaps mid-way towards the pitch, or even just a roof at a steeper pitch to meet the roofs of the holmesdale and a new Whitehorse. That wouldn't block light or views to houses on park road, and would join up the ground neatly.

Ultimately, if the Whitehorse stand redevelopment was made possible, everything else falls into place. Basically, one stand exists (holmesdale), one has been approved (main), so if the Whitehorse is possible it makes sense to compromise a bit on the Arthur. In idle moments I even wonder about a new, continuous roof flowing from the main stand out over the holmesdale and new Whitehorse, down over the Arthur. It could look good. A little unusual perhaps, but good.

Of course, the elephant in the room is funding. Textor was quite vocal about how much he helped with the costs of the academy (fair enough) and the Americans have helped out with a few loans here and there. FFP (which is real, by the way) prevents them splurging on players, but not on bricks and mortar. I wonder what they are there for if not to invest in redevelopment, and the club have welcomed them in, yet the main stand project drags on. Why is not clear. If it paid for itself in a reasonable period, surely that's exactly where an outside investor would put their dough? Ultimately, if the sums aren't attractive then the rest falls away. For me, that's where the real issue is.
With regard to the Arthur, if my old memory serves me well, I believe that the concept for that, back in Noades' day, was to reduce the pitch of the seat levels, thus putting in more rows without increasing the height of the stand (and not infringing the 'right to light' of the houses behind it, which was an issue) and covering the whole side with a cantilever roof which did away with both the gallery and the piers obstructing the view of many seats. An overall increase in seating within the same footprint.
 

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