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War in Ukraine

Mwncisee said:
I wasn't aware that Ukraine was in a different plane of existence.

And when you have to resort to personal comments you advertise to everyone you have lost the intellectual debate.
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Personal? That's personal?

Blimey cotton wool or what? Where do you normally post? On Disney forums or something?....I wasn't even aware I was insulting you.

As for intellectual debate? If you wish to think that but to me this is just basic point with basic counter point.
 
Spindle said:
I'm anti nuke. A waste of money, and yeah it nearly happened by accident and deliberately, but never did. Putin doesn't actually press the button
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Here we go.

Nukes have kept the peace in Europe for 80 years. How can you think they are a waste of money?

They prevent the Red invasion that you are so worried about.
 
Spindle said:
If we were out to bomb the Jews he'd be taking his son down to the local barracks
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Yep, money makes the world go round....in a nihilist neoliberal world...at twice the speed.
If Ukraine didn't have its WW2 history American GOP 'donors' would perhaps be backing it far more and Trump would listen.

As it is the American media coverage is completely different to what we are getting in Europe.
 
Trump pauses aid to Ukraine then, ie help Putin by hitting Ukrainian supplies.

"I want the killing to stop". He means the killing of Russian conscripts the wanker.
 
Spindle said:
Trump pauses aid to Ukraine then, ie help Putin by hitting Ukrainian supplies.

"I want the killing to stop". He means the killing of Russian conscripts the wanker.
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So the Left's only strategy is to claim that Trump and Farage love Russia?

Pitiful.

It's also wonderfully ironic. You wanted to ban the bomb but now you want American weapons. You are against a regime that bans free speech and locks people up for dissent but you voted for a government who is dong the same thing. You want to defend Britain from an invasion but you happily allow thousands of potentially dangerous individuals to arrive here illegally every year and then make their human rights more important than British citizens.

Best of all, you want to alienate our most important ally because of TDS.

And you wonder why Reform are growing daily.
 
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Hrolf The Ganger said:
So the Left's only strategy is to claim that Trump and Farage love Russia?

Pitiful.

It's also wonderfully ironic. You wanted to ban the bomb but now you want American weapons. You are against a regime that bans free speech and locks people up for dissent but you voted for a government who is dong the same thing. You want to defend Britain from an invasion but you happily allow thousands of potentially dangerous individuals to arrive here illegally every year and then make their human rights more important than British citizens.

Best of all, you want to alienate our most important ally because of TDS.

And you wonder why Reform are growing daily.
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Lots of assumption here. I would rather spend less on nukes and more on conventional weapons, because it's those that actually get used and project power.

Trump doesn't care about the killing, he cares about his election pledge, his ego, and the Nobel Peace Prize. He's trying to force a 'peace deal' without security guarantees because he doesn't care what happens afterwards, and sure as eggs are eggs Putin will have a beady eye on Kiev.
 
Spindle said:
Lots of assumption here. I would rather spend less on nukes and more on conventional weapons, because it's those that actually get used and project power.

Trump doesn't care about the killing, he cares about his election pledge, his ego, and the Nobel Peace Prize. He's trying to force a 'peace deal' without security guarantees because he doesn't care what happens afterwards, and sure as eggs are eggs Putin will have a beady eye on Kiev.
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Trump has said he wants Europe to step up with defending itself. That is happening.
He also wants to save lives. Funding Ukraine to fight a war they cannot win will only prolong the war and cost more lives and money. Zelensky has been happy to sacrifice Ukranian lives and one might accept that from his perspective, it is right to defend his country, however, from the outside it is clear that negotiation is the only sensible approach at this stage.

It will be interesting to see Putin's response to the situation. I hope you are prepared to eat your words if Russia withdraws from most of Ukraine and we get a lasting peace.

The idea of putting British troops into Ukraine is utterly bonkers. I hope it's just a bluff.
 
Spindle said:
Lots of assumption here. I would rather spend less on nukes and more on conventional weapons, because it's those that actually get used and project power.

Trump doesn't care about the killing, he cares about his election pledge, his ego, and the Nobel Peace Prize. He's trying to force a 'peace deal' without security guarantees because he doesn't care what happens afterwards, and sure as eggs are eggs Putin will have a beady eye on Kiev.
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Trump trusts Putin more than he trusts the Democrats.....who tried to put him in jail and destroy him.

Two assassination attempts and I don't mind telling you that I have suspicions on deep state involvement at some level.

Trump has two years to make radical changes and he's going full pelt on spending and the economy.....time will tell on how well or badly he does on that, because internally that will be what he is judge on.

He doesn't care about investing in foreign wars, unless it's for you know who.

I agree with you that we don't need more than 225 nukes, but we do need to ensure they actually work, which the last two tests have shown the delivery system failed. We need strong conventional forces regardless of the imaginary threat from Russia as that reflects power and thus influence across the world.

But DEI and our woke establishment teaching self hating rot about our national identity has damaged the ability to fill our military and damaged its real world effectiveness.....The British state has more energy prosecuting former military than it has in ensuring they are strong.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Trump has said he wants Europe to step up with defending itself. That is happening.
He also wants to save lives. Funding Ukraine to fight a war they cannot win will only prolong the war and cost more lives and money. Zelensky has been happy to sacrifice Ukranian lives and one might accept that from his perspective, it is right to defend his country, however, from the outside it is clear that negotiation is the only sensible approach at this stage.

It will be interesting to see Putin's response to the situation. I hope you are prepared to eat your words if Russia withdraws from most of Ukraine and we get a lasting peace.

The idea of putting British troops into Ukraine is utterly bonkers. I hope it's just a bluff.
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What Putin does will be interesting, I don't see him withdrawing from much, but then again, I don't see him stopping while Zelensky is in power anyway....Russia made their war aims quite clear and I suspect they will stick to that.

I think the British establishment has completely lost its marbles, just as it did over covid.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Trump has said he wants Europe to step up with defending itself. That is happening.
He also wants to save lives. Funding Ukraine to fight a war they cannot win will only prolong the war and cost more lives and money. Zelensky has been happy to sacrifice Ukranian lives and one might accept that from his perspective, it is right to defend his country, however, from the outside it is clear that negotiation is the only sensible approach at this stage.

It will be interesting to see Putin's response to the situation. I hope you are prepared to eat your words if Russia withdraws from most of Ukraine and we get a lasting peace.

The idea of putting British troops into Ukraine is utterly bonkers. I hope it's just a bluff.
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If Trump got what he wanted by getting European commitment then why suddenly cut off Ukraine? That makes no sense at all.

And you have to say that troops in is possible, or are you expecting America to only? It has to be credible to work, which funnily enough I don't consider nuclear weapons to be.

Europe out number and out gun Russia in regular forces without the US, and with far better tech. The only thing Europe doesn't beat Russia on is ICMBs, but since we're on the same continent doesn't really matter.

China isn't Russia's mate, the moment Russia is balls deep (they kind of are) then China will be making incursions into their former old territories out there I reckon.
 
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