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War in Ukraine

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Or take the piss and keep lapping up endless propaganda
 
I get accused of 'believing' Russian 'talking points' all the time. However, I don't care where the truth to something comes from, I just want to know what is true.....To do this you have to listen to both sides of an argument, similar to a court case and then you decide what's more true...also I did actually live through these events like most of us......You don't get anything like a balanced discussion in western mainstream media anymore on any topic deemed important to our elites.

However, I looked at both sides as alternative media is out there, despite their attempts at banning it. I did this and while people don't need to agree with what I and others think I'm quite confident in where I am with it.

Anyway, here is a clip that was wiped from most areas of the Internet years ago....You couldn't find it for years on Youtube for example, I know because I looked for it.......It's of a guest who came onto a popular late night chatshow in America back around 2014. It's back before the current narrative you hear from western media became the official narrative they all parrot......This wasn't a 'Russian talking point', the words come from the guy's own mouth about western intentions.

It's why it was scrubbed from the Internet.....However, now America no longer has an administration that promotes Europe's narrative it's returned....at least on Rogan

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896413037944578421
 
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Stirlingsays said:
I get accused of 'believing' Russian 'talking points' all the time. However, I don't care where the truth to something comes from, I just want to know what is true.....To do this you have to listen to both sides of an argument, similar to a court case and then you decide what's more true...also I did actually live through these events like most of us......You don't get anything like a balanced discussion in western mainstream media anymore on any topic deemed to important to our elites.

However, I looked at both sides as alternative media is out there, despite their attempts at banning it. I did this and while people don't need to agree with what I and others think I'm quite confident in where I am with it.

Anyway, here is a clip that was wiped from most areas of the Internet years ago....You couldn't find it for years on Youtube for example, I know because I looked for it.......It's of a guest who came onto a popular late night chatshow in America back around 2014. It's back before the current narrative you hear from western media became the official narrative they all parrot......This wasn't a 'Russian talking point', the words come from the guy's own mouth about western intentions.

It's why it was scrubbed from the Internet.....However, now America no longer has an administration that promotes Europe's narrative it's returned....at least on Rogan

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896413037944578421
Click to expand...

Would encourage everyone to have a look at the rest of the output from that Twitter account.
 
DanH said:
Would encourage everyone to have a look at the rest of the output from that Twitter account.
Click to expand...

Whether people agree with the 'Twitter account' or not doesn't matter.....I don't even know what that account is like.

It held that clip and I knew it existed.

People should watch the clip from 2014 and then compare it to what they were told......and then ask themselves what a balanced interpretation of a truth is.
 
While I know there are always two sides to an argument I do find some peoples pro Russia, or anti-western stance baffling (Mind you Americans voted in Trump a second time, so anything id possible)

Russia invaded a sovereign European country, allegedly through fear of Nato, a purely defensive pact.

Sadly the US has been propping up Nato for a long time, especially during austerity periods, and I do agree that European countries became lackadaisical and have underfunded there militaries (We have a grand total of 14 long range artillery guns!)

Trump has become the President again banging a nationalistic drum. Why should Americans pay and support a war that doesn't concern them?

We cant rely on US help in the war in Ukraine. The parallels to the start of Hitlers invasion of Europe are scary.

Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
 
Mwncisee said:
While I know there are always two sides to an argument I do find some peoples pro Russia, or anti-western stance baffling (Mind you Americans voted in Trump a second time, so anything id possible)

Russia invaded a sovereign European country, allegedly through fear of Nato, a purely defensive pact.

Sadly the US has been propping up Nato for a long time, especially during austerity periods, and I do agree that European countries became lackadaisical and have underfunded there militaries (We have a grand total of 14 long range artillery guns!)

Trump has become the President again banging a nationalistic drum. Why should Americans pay and support a war that doesn't concern them?

We cant rely on US help in the war in Ukraine. The parallels to the start of Hitlers invasion of Europe are scary.

Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Click to expand...
What do you define as Pro Russia? Is it simply people wanting peace?
 
eaglesdare said:
What do you define as Pro Russia? Is it simply people wanting peace?
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone wants war, but to answer your question people who believe Putin had to invade Ukraine due to the `threat` of it joining Nato. Every country has the right to join any other countries in an alliance if they so wish. Ironically Putin could have chosen to negate the threat of Nato by joining Nato.
 
Mwncisee said:
I don't think anyone wants war, but to answer your question people who believe Putin had to invade Ukraine due to the `threat` of it joining Nato. Every country has the right to join any other countries in an alliance if they so wish. Ironically Putin could have chosen to negate the threat of Nato by joining Nato.
Click to expand...

Is that how you thinks the world works?

Do you seriously believe that if Mexico wants to join BRICs and have Russian bases that America is going to be cool with that.

Did you watch the video I posted?
 
Mwncisee said:
Russia invaded a sovereign European country, allegedly through fear of Nato, a purely defensive pact.
Click to expand...
My brother fought as a part of NATO, was involved in several exercises with it.

I keep hearing this, 'defensive pact'.

Tell that to Serbia, tell that to Libya.

These were 'sovereign' countries as well.

I'm for old NATO before its remit was expanded.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Is that how you thinks the world works?

Do you seriously believe that if Mexico wants to join BRICs and have Russian bases that America is going to be cool with that.

Did you watch the video I posted?
Click to expand...
And that happens frequently. They may not be happy with it but on a level they have no choice but to accept it.

Nato is a defensive pact. It's hard written into the agreement, hence why Ukraine cant join it.

And Nato had a clear remit in the examples you gave that the actions were taken because of humanitarian and human rights violations.
 
Mwncisee said:
And that happens frequently. They may not be happy with it but on a level they have no choice but to accept it.

Nato is a defensive pact. It's hard written into the agreement, hence why Ukraine cant join it.
Click to expand...
You're living a fantasy dude.

Ukraine's border is five hours drive to Moscow....it's not the real world.
 
Mwncisee said:
I don't think anyone wants war, but to answer your question people who believe Putin had to invade Ukraine due to the `threat` of it joining Nato. Every country has the right to join any other countries in an alliance if they so wish. Ironically Putin could have chosen to negate the threat of Nato by joining Nato.
Click to expand...

People like myself believe that Putin invaded Ukraine because they did not want to them to join NATO.

That does not make me a Russian supporter nor Putin sympathiser.

Or course it was wrong the invasion. And Putin and Russia are the bad guys here. And Ukraine should be free to do what it wants. In an ideal world. However this not an ideal world.

We are passed all that now anyway. It's all about trying to have peace again. Somthing Zelensky and other people seem to not want.
 
Mwncisee said:
And that happens frequently. They may not be happy with it but on a level they have no choice but to accept it.

Nato is a defensive pact. It's hard written into the agreement, hence why Ukraine cant join it.

And Nato had a clear remit in the examples you gave that the actions were taken because of humanitarian and human rights violations.
Click to expand...
Debatable.
 
Mwncisee said:
And Nato had a clear remit in the examples you gave that the actions were taken because of humanitarian and human rights violations.
Click to expand...

So in reality we go from 'defensive pact' to....'if I think I have a moral right, I get to attack a 'sovereign' country'.

I can think of many many countries that have humanitarian and human rights violations that the west even support. That criteria can be used by just about any country....Russia could claim the same about the rights of ethnic Russians in the Donbas being violated...shelling and so on.

It's just an excuse to support whatever the feck is in the interests of the current bunch of elites.
 
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