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War in Ukraine

Hrolf The Ganger said:
Who is backing Putin?

Surely, if recent history has taught us anything, it is that we can't trust our own team either.

Of course, one must get behind the side that represents one's interests, but that doesn't mean you have to do it with your eyes shut.

Our governments have sent millions of their citizens to their deaths in ridiculous wars that they started.
It doesn't matter whose side you are on. You are expendable.
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Pacifists are the most useless of all.
 
I think a lot of people in the west never quite accepted that when the Berlin wall came down that everything changed.

The Nato march eastwards was argued about at the time many of our top people were against it....yet discussions today are treated like these people were working for Russia. As was discussed in the thread the risks involved went back to that time and it's all played out in the modern day.

I think many people just can't accept nor want to move away from cold war, despite the massively negative consequences that contains.....and we ended up going back to it.

Trump doesn't want this type of going back to the eighties.....I've been out and I haven't seen the Zelensky press conference but I'll watch it now.
 
Spindle said:
Yet you just celebrated Zelensky walking out and no deal, so more killing. And Trump is used to playing the greed of businessmen and politicians who weathervane, but today Trump's strategy didn't work because he faced a man who is strong willed and loyal to his country, and has nothing to lose with what was on offer. Do you think that Trump is going to want to let Ukraine now lose? ,The bloodshed that would even follow any victory if it even came, and watch Russia make those gains? What a terrible mover he would look. Nope, he's had someone stand up to him and he will still need to get a deal, and still need to prevent Putin from winning.

But regardless, taking enjoyment at the s*** show of 'diplomacy' we just saw? Utterly embarrassing, and Vance, out of his depth.
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You must have watched something completely different.

1. Zelensky showed up in Pyjamas
2. Zelensky asked for more money
3. Zelensky insulted America

People like you it seems are Putin sympathisers. The longer the war goes on the better position Putin will be in to demand more and more.

Peace now to avoid further death and destruction. Like Trump said zelensky can come back when he is ready for peace and end the war.
 
eaglesdare said:
You must have watched something completely different.

1. Zelensky showed up in Pyjamas
2. Zelensky asked for more money
3. Zelensky insulted America

People like you it seems are Putin sympathisers. The longer the war goes on the better position Putin will be in to demand more and more.

Peace now to avoid further death and destruction. Like Trump said zelensky can come back when he is ready for peace and end the war.
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You lost me at pyjamas. Childish

You laughed at what happened like it was a good thing, it wasn't. Honestly I don't think you have your own thoughts on this, just agreeing with whatever Trump says.

You should mark his golf card.
 
Spindle said:
You lost me at pyjamas. Childish

You laughed at what happened like it was a good thing, it wasn't. Honestly I don't think you have your own thoughts on this, just agreeing with whatever Trump says.

You should mark his golf card.
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Yes it was very childish of Zelensky to not turn up to the white house with a suit.
 
Spindle said:
It's a s*** show. If Trump planned to beat Zelensky up into signing by using Vance then he screwed up
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Well yeah....just watched the press conference.

While I agree with Trump that is not how things should be done.....Both of them arguing in front of the media is nuts.

This is have massive impacts in terms of the war.....can't exactly say how but positions and decisions will finally be taken.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
Well yeah....just watched the press conference.

While I agree with Trump that is not how things should be done.
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None of it, but it's on Trump even if he trusted Vance to fire off. Massive failure from team Trump, they went all out to humiliate their way to a deal, pleasing the small minded on TV, but it didn't work.
 
Spindle said:
None of it, but it's on Trump even if he trusted Vance to fire off. Massive failure from team Trump, they went all out to humiliate their way to a deal, pleasing the small minded on TV, but it didn't work.
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Well no, I don't go that far.

It takes two to argue on TV.....Vance and Zelensky aren't stupid. For this to happen, positions have already been decided upon.
 
Spindle said:
No not likewise, I've suggested some outcomes, you just did a booyah and laughed at the whole thing, then said "oh I want peace". It's not smart mate.
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Yes likewise.

All you want is the war to continue. The longer the war goes on the weaker Ukraine, the EU and NATO gets.
You are clearly a Putin sympathiser wanting the war to continue.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Well no, I don't go that far.

It takes two to argue on TV.....Vance and Zelensky aren't stupid. For this to happen, positions have already been decided upon.
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Interesting, are you suggesting this was staged?

I don't think so, I think the plan was to put Ukraine into a box but it backfired.
 
Spindle said:
No not likewise, I've suggested some outcomes, you just did a booyah and laughed at the whole thing, then said "oh I want peace". It's not smart mate.
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Trump has stated that he will defend Nato.

The whole Ukraine situation wasn't one that he agreed with from the start in 2022, so to complain that he didn't agree with the Biden approach is ignoring the position of many people who spoke against it.....just like our media ignored them as with covid, but it represented a lot of people, especially in the US.....we have been acting like we are at war with Russia.

Trump will make a deal with Putin.....If Europe or Ukraine refuse that deal then the fighting won't stop until they decide on a deal themselves. It could get us all killed.

I regard this whole thing as a denial of reality.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Well no, I don't go that far.

It takes two to argue on TV.....Vance and Zelensky aren't stupid. For this to happen, positions have already been decided upon.
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Interesting Vance threw a grenade into the room with Starmer yesterday too about free speech. Maybe looking for a reaction. Two tier kier handled it well in that case.
 
eaglesdare said:
Yes likewise.

All you want is the war to continue. The longer the war goes on the weaker Ukraine, the EU and NATO gets.
You are clearly a Putin sympathiser wanting the war to continue.
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This makes zero sense. You just celebrated this disaster of a meeting, which will only lead to continuation as things stand, but it's me on continuation?

I don't think you understand just how much more powerful NATO is with conventional weapons fwiw.
 
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