War in Ukraine

[McAhuna]

I haven't said I think Russia is going to attack NATO. Does Putin seriously think NATO would attack Russia unless they attacked a NATO country first.

Too simplistic, Old world geo-politics.

Putin probably thinks, with some justification, that the pattern of economic/political pressure upon buffer states would continue indefinitely. If Ukraine folded, the west will get its talons into Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Kazakhstan and so on, and so on.

Personally I think the West's long term goal is the break up of Russia. It is too much of an obstacle to the goals of the globalist new world order.

 

[McAhuna]

Off-topic, but plenty of Muslims fought for the Axis in WW2.
e.g Iraqis, Bosniaks, Albanians.
There was no global Islamic consensus on the conflict.

 

[georgenorman]

Well my view and I suspect that of Putin is that Nato wants the break up of Russia.

A Ukraine that is anti Russian would be a springboard for that.

It's been said many times, the US wouldn't allow its border countries of Canada or Mexico to be aligned against them.....What happened was totally predictable.

Nato has put nuclear capable missile launchers in Poland.....which is the closest to Moscow.....I don't know what the Russian leadership thinks but if I were them I wouldn't be just shrugging my shoulders at the prospect of Ukraine being aligned against them after the coup of 2014....Ukraine is too close.

Putin was very clear about it all back in 2008, he said it was a redline that they viewed as existential.

NATO wants peace and stability. Ukraine is of course anti-Russia given the history of Russian oppression there. Canada and Mexico offer no threat to the USA whatsoever. The modern technologies of missile delivery make the geographical deployed of them largely irrelevant. Putin concocts whatever story is convenient to justify his aggression.

 

[Stirlingsays]

NATO wants peace and stability. Ukraine is of course anti-Russia given the history of Russian oppression there. Canada and Mexico offer no threat to the USA whatsoever. The modern technologies of missile delivery make the geographical deployed of them largely irrelevant. Putin concocts whatever story is convenient to justify his aggression.

So why did they vote in a broadly pro Russian government in 2012? The one that was overthrown?

Why did Ukrainian military units rebel in the east after this coup? There are millions of Russian speakers in the east and middle of Ukraine.....Well were in the middle of Ukraine...it's been banned.

What do you mean by, 'The modern technologies of missile delivery make the geographical deployed of them largely irrelevant.'?

 

[georgenorman]

So why did they vote in a broadly pro Russian government in 2012? The one that was overthrown?

Why did Ukrainian military units rebel in the east after this coup? There are millions of Russian speakers in the east and middle of Ukraine.....Well were in the middle of Ukraine...it's been banned.

What do you mean by, 'The modern technologies of missile delivery make the geographical deployed of them largely irrelevant.'?

If the Ukrainians love Russia so much, why didn't they stay part of Russia when the UUSR collapsed?

 

[McAhuna]

So why did they vote in a broadly pro Russian government in 2012? The one that was overthrown?

Why did Ukrainian military units rebel in the east after this coup? There are millions of Russian speakers in the east and middle of Ukraine.....Well were in the middle of Ukraine...it's been banned.

What do you mean by, 'The modern technologies of missile delivery make the geographical deployed of them largely irrelevant.'?

The coup was instigated by the CIA on behalf of the military-industrial complex.

Democracy, but only when it suits us.

 

[McAhuna]

 

[Stirlingsays]

If the Ukrainians love Russia so much, why didn't they stay part of Russia when the UUSR collapsed?

Well, they are Ukrainians, not Russians.......but they have a lot of ethnic Russians because it's a border country....There are a lot of ethnic Ukrainians in Russia....Cossacks for example.

A lot of them have connections to Russia in the east....a lot of them have connections to Poland and other states in the west. Loyalties were mixed post war.

It's like Wales or Scotland is to England.

Ukraine became a mix of the countries it borders....a mix of east and west and something inbetween.

Zelensky was elected on a promise of peace with Russia.....but he was in the US's pocket from the start. There's that recording of state department Nuland discussing government picks.

My argument isn't Russia good.....it's a corrupt country and certainly doesn't give a feck about the likes of me.

My argument is why are we in this mess when we don't need to be....I want cheap energy not another cold war.

None of the youth are going to fight anyway.....it's a bit of a nonsense.

 

[McAhuna]

If the Ukrainians love Russia so much, why didn't they stay part of Russia when the UUSR collapsed?

Simplistic.
If we slavishly align with EU foreign policy, why did the UK vote Brexit?

 

[Stirlingsays]

View attachment 2476

Now that the US are pulling out.

All the stuff they have been holding back is coming out.

Before 2014 the only time the media wrote about Ukraine would be to complain about corruption or about neo Nazis there......All of eastern Europe has mob problems, the further east you go the worse it gets and child trafficing is part of that.

Ukraine is a basket case, like Russia is.....we have been lied to about one but not the other.

The difference being that we aren't sending money and weapons to Russia.

 

[McAhuna]

For those genuinely interested in the 2014 Ukrainian coup, rather than just parroting the BBC, watch RKR Jnr. It explains why Trump cut USAID. Join the dots people.

 

[silvertop]

The funny thing is that they did win.

True. You ask an average German who beat them in the war and they will say the Americans and the Soviets.

 

[silvertop]

For those genuinely interested in the 2014 Ukrainian coup, rather than just parroting the BBC, watch RKR Jnr. It explains why Trump cut USAID. Join the dots people.

View attachment 2477

No idea if this is true. Has all the hallmarks of conspiracy with sufficient elements of truth to give it currency.

However I would not be surprised if the West intervened to place a friendly government in place. Russia did it with Moldova and there's the motivation. Both sides want a buffer in uncertain times.

 

[McAhuna]

No idea if this is true. Has all the hallmarks of conspiracy with sufficient elements of truth to give it currency.

However I would not be surprised if the West intervened to place a friendly government in place. Russia did it with Moldova and there's the motivation. Both sides want a buffer in uncertain times.

There's smoking guns, and then there is this....US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was literally in Kiev handing out supplies to protesters in 2013/2014

Yes, all countries seek to extend their influence as you say.
But can you imagine if a Russian Secretary of State was on the ground in Canada or Mexico encouraging anti-government protesters?

 

[silvertop]

There's smoking guns, and then there is this....US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was literally in Kiev handing out supplies to protesters in 2013/2014

Yes, all countries seek to extend their influence as you say.
But can you imagine if a Russian Secretary of State was on the ground in Canada or Mexico encouraging anti-government protesters?

Pretty much what they do through social media in our elections eg the EU referendum

 

[McAhuna]

Pretty much what they do through social media in our elections eg the EU referendum

Except much more serious. The US handpicked the new Ukrainian government ministers.
11 years of bloodshed has followed.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Pretty much what they do through social media in our elections eg the EU referendum

Nothing like the same scale....but probably.

From watching Mike Benz I've learnt that all blocks are indirectly funding and promoting (sometimes without the target's knowledge) individuals and organisations that are oppositional to the establishment.

The revelations over USAID showed that on the US side....pretty much the whole NGO network, and I have no doubt Russia and other oppositional states have a hand in many oppositional pies against establishment policy.