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Unemployment & Economically Inactive

Most of the World does not have much of a social-welfare safety-net. The bizarre idea that workers should carry those who cannot work. The idea that YOUR TAX pays for the upkeep of strangers you have never met.

Smith & Jones are the two most populous surnames in England. I will use them for ease of illustration.

We have some families in England, containing up to dozens of people.....cousins, uncles, nephews etc.....and they mostly work or child-mind while married to a worker. Call them the Smiths.

Then we have other families. Call them the Jones. Dozens of them. And never an honest taxpaying day's work from any of the lot of them. Going on like this for decades and lifetimes, over many generations.

And then it begs the question. Are the Smiths being taken for a ride ? played for mugs ? And are the Jones getting the best out of the deal ? Enjoying all that extra spare time and suffering little stress or work related grief.

Surely the benefits system should be rigged to take account of one's tribe being net contributors or net parasites ?
 
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Nutmegyeti said:
I should think there is sod all chance they will work -

One of the issues is equalizing the minimum wage across the board.

An 18 year old FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£19,500.00 Gross
£2,175.00 Ers NI
TOTAL = £21,675.00

A 21 year + FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£23,809.50 Gross
£2,8,21.43 Ers NI
£527.09 Ers Pension
TOTAL = £27,158.01

For an 18 year old they will see an increase of £2,730 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £3,846.54 to their cost.


For a 21 year + FT worker, FT worker they will see an increase of £1,501.50 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £2,545.27 to their cost.


I was looking at recruiting and building a team. I don't have deep pockets to fund it and I turn over about £140k on my own with one admin member of staff and one professional member. I make circa £60k a year before tax and draw circa £48k.

4 years ago I could have hired an experienced hire for £30k and an apprentice for circa £10k - total cost to me over 2 years £80k.

Now I'd be paying £45k for the same experienced hire and the apprentice (assuming they are 18 when they start) will cost me £15k in year one and then £19k at least in year two. Total cost to me over 2 years - £124k.

So to cover it now I near enough have to double my business - problem being it doesn't work like that and if I double the turnover I then need admin staff to support it. So it costs even more. I've also got to offer flexible working, sick pay from day 1, and be generally understanding (which I am with the current team) and add in my time getting them up to speed.

Then if I do make extra profit - the corp tax is 26.25% in every pound and then for me to draw it out I pay 34% personal tax.

I'm not a millionaire and never will be - but why the f*** would I want to increase my problems, have to over double my business and then give up 60% of what I make to the taxman. And yet in the eyes of Rachel Reeves I'm not "picking up the slack" apparently. Nor am I a "working person" in the eyes of Keir.

So by all means make work pay, but help employers as well.
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I have a lot of sympathy for your position and that of other small businesses trying to grow. Indeed I feel quite relieved that I am no longer in that position. We can only hope that the impact of these taxes will be recognised as barriers to that which the government are seeking to achieve and the emphasis shifted.

Getting the workshy and scroungers back to work must be the priority. The problem is always that the ways to do it fairly often cost more than the savings made due to the numbers needed to oversee it. So I think we might have to risk unfairness, at least for a while.

We have people posting on here who are clearly of working age but are posting so often that they cannot be working, or if they are they are either cheating their employer or not taking their business seriously.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
I have a lot of sympathy for your position and that of other small businesses trying to grow. Indeed I feel quite relieved that I am no longer in that position. We can only hope that the impact of these taxes will be recognised as barriers to that which the government are seeking to achieve and the emphasis shifted.

Getting the workshy and scroungers back to work must be the priority. The problem is always that the ways to do it fairly often cost more than the savings made due to the numbers needed to oversee it. So I think we might have to risk unfairness, at least for a while.

We have people posting on here who are clearly of working age but are posting so often that they cannot be working, or if they are they are either cheating their employer or not taking their business seriously.
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Blimey you must have been a slave driver.
We are not all miners !
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Much better to target all those working age key board pontificating pseudo experts with so much time on their hands they must either be retired criminals, living on an inheritance or drawing benefits for some reason.

If they can type then they can work.
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Are you feeling alright? Accusing people in politics talk of abusing the benefits system? Do you want to get a doctor?
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Are you feeling alright? Accusing people in politics talk of abusing the benefits system? Do you want to get a doctor?
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It's hard to gauge exactly what it is, but I think he's trying to say in his underhand way that he has a problem with part time gas fitters and maintenance crew.
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Some good government intentions here but, as we know and as the article says, Employers NI is likely to hit jobs and recruitment (Starmer’s Labour). That’s with regards the people frustrated with opportunities…

www.bbc.co.uk

Work and benefits: 'I want to get a job but I don't know how'

The BBC speaks to young people yet to enter the workforce as well as those who have chosen to leave it.
www.bbc.co.uk

For people who don’t want to work… Cutting unemployment benefits for people who refuse to work can be done (because anything strict is more acceptable under Labour like reform of the NHS) I expect it’s more likely to happen with people without any dependents which means mostly no housing payments in Universal Credit which is where the big costs occur. But of course you can get people playing with looking for work by performing badly in interviews, even I suppose in the workplaces the job centre knows take on anybody. See Spud in Transpotting. Increasing funding in higher areas of unemployment is no doubt needed and I expect a lot of this is now done online or on the phone without enough time spent on cases.

For people who are better off not working because of the bundle of benefits they receive, it sounds like more reform is needed here, and again, I expect that anything slightly punitive will be more acceptable under Labour.

Childcare costs. This is a real problem, not only for employment but also for the birth rate of the nation. France’s birth rate at 1.79 per woman isn’t as low as Britain’s at 1.49 per woman but then their welfare bill and borrowing is much higher. (And their large amount of employment laws are ridiculous. The most damaging one puts companies off expanding above more than 50 employees)
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Believe what you like, but this means population numbers should be falling, ignoring immigration for a moment. Yet since the war, population has virtually doubled.
 
dreamwaverider said:
Believe what you like, but this means population numbers should be falling, ignoring immigration for a moment. Yet since the war, population has virtually doubled.
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Don't get mixed up between birth-rates and longevity.
Birth -rates are falling. However people are living longer. We have a population top-heavy with pensioners, and not enough workers to pay for them
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
Don't get mixed up between birth-rates and longevity.
Birth -rates are falling. However people are living longer. We have a population top-heavy with pensioners, and not enough workers to pay for them
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Life expectancy in 1945 was about 64. Today it’s 82 I think. That might be for men. I think women it’s late 80’s. That’s living a third longer so explains a big chunk of the population growth. Covid didn’t achieve solving the problem.

I can’t remember when in the last decade or so primary school years started increasing from 2 classes to 3 or 4 but they have so a lot of the shortfall has been made up with third world migrants in outer London.
 
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Benefits should be limited to housing, food, no takeaways or deliveries etc. ,If you have no job you have time to cook ,No booze, no tobacco or vapes, no luxuries, reduce the cash and issue some kind of coupons.
 
HKOwen said:
Benefits should be limited to housing, food, no takeaways or deliveries etc. ,If you have no job you have time to cook ,No booze, no tobacco or vapes, no luxuries, reduce the cash and issue some kind of coupons.
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Dormitory accommodation for the longterm unemployed. Many working people live in dorms - taxpayers. Like 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet'. Also the military, oil rig workers, agricultural labourers, Construction, and many others.

A dorm is good enough for students, backpacker tourists and many more.

A private room is a luxury that no long term Doler deserves - it is unfair to those taxpayers who prop them up. And such Dorms need to be emptied of people during office hours. I slog in my job. Why should you stay in bed all day and/or party all night ?

Residence Halls

At UNE first-year residents live together in double or triple occupancy. Upperclass students live in halls consisting of semi-private suites. Room and board costs vary by occupancy size.
www.une.edu www.une.edu
 
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PalazioVecchio said:
Dormitory accommodation for the longterm unemployed. Many working people live in dorms - taxpayers. Like 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet'. Also the military, oil rig workers, agricultural labourers, Construction, and many others.

A private room is a luxury that no long term Doler deserves - it is unfair to those taxpayers who prop them up.

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It’s an idea. I wonder how many Dolers there are without kids compared to with kids.
 
One of the biggest scams I’ve heard of is a mother with kids living under housing benefit but not declaring her partner living with her. Apparently it goes on a lot.
 
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What’s everyone doing now? According to our resident globalist lecturer there’s loads of Holers on the dole on politics talk. What’s everyone drinking in Wetherspoons right now?
 
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Rudi Hedman said:
What’s everyone doing now? According to our resident globalist lecturer there’s loads of Holers on the silicon politics talk. What’s everyone drinking in Wetherspoons right now?
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Watching last night's Family Guy & eating lunch. Then going with the missus to get her Covid/flu jabs and then the pub. I might do the same tomorrow (except the jabs).
 
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